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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
10
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Posted - 2011.11.19 15:29:00 -
[991] - Quote
the buffs are plenty enough for the platforms to do what they need to do now.
you and the others in this thread whining are just reinforcing the old adage "give a man an inch and he will take a yard"
minmatar have little else asides from their awesome weapons. most t1 platforms for the race cant tank nearly as well as the other three races, guess what? the other three races each have weapons systems that have serious drawback when certain conditions are met.
these balances that have been posted by ccp are great and will make the ship capable of doing alot more with the same ammount of slots.
if you dont like the tracking issues of rails. get a friend in gang that can slow things down at range.
if you dont like the range of blasters, fly ac's or a drone boat.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate POD-SQUAD
18
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Posted - 2011.11.19 15:59:00 -
[992] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote: most t1 platforms for the race cant tank nearly as well as the other three races
Maelstrom has the most powerful tank of all t1 subcaps. Of all races.
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Hamox
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
6
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:18:00 -
[993] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote: you and the others in this thread whining are just reinforcing the old adage "give a man an inch and he will take a yard"
See thats exactly your problem. I'm not whining at all but you keep offending people. Your contribution is worthless to this topic and you are a distraction in this thread. Others would call you propably a troll.
In my opinion the balancing is finished when all races have equal chances to win a battle with equal ship types (for example cruiser vs cruiser) and equal weapons (short vs short or range vs range).
So lets do this test, lets put a AC Hurricane vs a Blaster Bruttix, both T1 BC with short range weapons, both T2 fitted. Lets run 10 tests and see what comes out. Ouch, the Hurricane won 9 of 10 fights... ... but yeah, the Bruttix-Pilot was a whiner.
As long as one weapon system dominates the entire game it is not fixed. But guys like you offending people and tell them they are whiners just want to stay in their comfortable seat named Hurricane with AC. Btw, I'm not a Gallente Fanboy and I also fly other ships and it doesn't take too much time to cross train to T2 medium ACs (if I feel the need for that) but a crap balanced game is a crap balanced game. And EVE isn't only crap balanced, it also has some fundamentaly broken aspects by design. For example making the short range guy slow and armor tanked and making Rails work on a distance where you simply can use warp to zero.
"give a man an inch and he will take a yard"? How about to put it that way: Ignore your paying player base for 3 years and they will be happy after that 3 years even if you only give them some bullshit to eat? |
Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
11
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:18:00 -
[994] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote: minmatar have little else asides from their awesome weapons. most t1 platforms for the race cant tank nearly as well as the other three races, guess what? the other three races each have weapons systems that have serious drawback when certain conditions are met.
I lol'ed at this part. Yeah they have nothing else besides their awesome weapons, besides the best speed, best slot layout, tons of extra fitting space to fit everything they want and tons of utility slots. Go troll somewhere else you easy moder. Fact is I use almost nothing but blaster ships to get my kills, and guess what, just because someone can get kills relying on the rest of their gang, doesn't mean the ships aren't **** and need redoing. The whole pvp balance in eve is messed up because of minmatar ships, all the other races have some way of dealing with it but not Gallente ships. So we're asking for these frankly reasonable changes because we know that this will not make Gall ships more desirable and only slightly more effective. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
150
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Posted - 2011.11.19 18:13:00 -
[995] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:again fly something else if you can't get into situations where you can get on top of your opponent and tickle him from the inside.
ah yes, the fabled "warp in at 0 tactic".
that works about 1 out of 50 times btw. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
10
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Posted - 2011.11.19 19:29:00 -
[996] - Quote
if you arent a ultra bad and fly in a group with logistics then it does in fact work.
solo in eve has its place but ffs every ship and race should not be able to do it well. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
320
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 20:13:00 -
[997] - Quote
Weren't gallente suppost to be the solo race? Niche got smaller, and thus people wanted them to work in fleets?
With minmatar, it was really just a problem with the battleships and caps, most of the other classes were the most useful in thier class. Then the boosts came, and all those great ships became greater, whilst we now see artillery in abaddons.
I've pretty much said from the outset that there was little beyond changes to ammo and tracking that needs to be done to hybrids, however the lack of ship changes, the lack of a meaningful synergy towards how the ships behave is depressing.
Deimos, Phobos, Eos, Astarte, Hyperion, Eris, Brutix and Mymidon all need a look at with specific changes (form fitting tweaks to major redesigns) which I think would give gallente a more competitive line up beyond (for me anyway) the ishtar and the Proteus.
Also Zarak1, you can't accuse me of flying with bads! You know full well that a Mach > Vindi for top damage dealing in almost every situation which is kinda sad. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Hamox
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
8
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Posted - 2011.11.19 20:25:00 -
[998] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:... but ffs every ship and race should not be able to do it well.
I agree with "every ship" since there are ships designed for fleets, for solo and some even for... ... mining! I disagree with race since there is no reason why one race should be the fleet race, the other the solo race and the third race the gate camping race. I say yes to different strategies and approaches, to a different "balance point" every race has, but every race must have something competitive to get the basic jobs done. Otherwise Gamemasters should tell beginners to choose Amarr if they want to fight in fleets, Minmatar if they want to own everything in canes, Caldari if they want to run missions and Gallente if they want to haul stuff in a Iteron 5 :P |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
188
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Posted - 2011.11.19 21:12:00 -
[999] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:the buffs are plenty enough for the platforms to do what they need to do now.
not for the Deimos. this ship is still subpar in comparison to its counterparts, and rails simply dont work well with it. please buff the Deimos in some way.
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Deimos, Phobos, Eos, Astarte, Hyperion, Eris, Brutix and Mymidon all need a look at with specific changes (form fitting tweaks to major redesigns) which I think would give gallente a more competitive line up beyond (for me anyway) the ishtar and the Proteus.
and this. Ishtar has always been ok, and the Proteus is showing a lot of promise with the rail buffs. but the others are terrible. |
Atuesuel
ELITE BR Vera Cruz Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 22:01:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:if you arent a ultra bad and fly in a group with logistics then it does in fact work.
solo in eve has its place but ffs every ship and race should not be able to do it well.
like all ways the other races call it crying, explain how to get a kill here, you are in a brutex , a cane is at 18km, how you going to win this smart guy let alone put damage on him. ? |
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
10
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:15:00 -
[1001] - Quote
i'm actually looking forward to the changes that are coming. 2 vigs 2 DD's and 2 comets ready to go.
been flying minmatar for far too long and these damage and tracking changes are the shot in the arm i needed to change races |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:33:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Atuesuel wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:if you arent a ultra bad and fly in a group with logistics then it does in fact work.
solo in eve has its place but ffs every ship and race should not be able to do it well. like all ways the other races call it crying, explain how to get a kill here, you are in a brutex , a cane is at 18km, how you going to win this smart guy let alone put damage on him. ?
Perhaps something like this
[Brutix, New Setup 2] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Berserker SW-900 x2
You should be able to close and do damage, of course then there is still the neuts and large close range DPS to contend with so the brutix would probably still lose, sad thing is the Hybrid changes have done the most to improve the shield gank fits, you could argue it is not Hybrids that are broken now but armour tanking, and unfortunatley for Gallente especially active armour tanking.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Purification of Eden XIN DOA'ED
54
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:17:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:ok, CCP, you still have not fixed the fact that all the ships with armor tanking bonuces cannot usethe bonus you gave them, because they cannot fit a full rack of guns, reppers, MWD, and boosters, unless you are fitting electron blaster on them (which is pathertic). So atm hyperion and britux cannot be fitted with 2 reps and 2 boosters even with maximum fitting skills, meaning they cannot possibly under any circumstance utilize their bonuces. It just is impossible. Thus the ship is useless. That is wihtout even begining to look into effectiveness of their fitting or active vs buffer tank or getting in range or anything like that . THey simply cannot be fit. That is stupid. CHange their bonuces, or change their fitting.
Secondly, remove speed penalty from active armor tank rigs. I liked flying active armour ships, but atm it is just silly. Leave penalty on trimarks, so buffertanks and amarr stay slow.
Thirdly pelase consider giving some gal ships a shield-tank. I seriously think it would massively improve the situation. Minmatar use two tanks, so can we.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head here man. Only thing i could add to this suggestion is the addition of 1 low slot to Brutix and Hyperion hulls.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:14:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Believe me you can easily fit a nice Hyperion, however it's' obviously not designed to fit the biggest guns, mwd, 1-2 heavy cap boosters and dual reps without any fitting mods... It's called balance and all the Hyperion need is a boost to active tanking in general.
With the new changes I could upgrade my favorite Hyperion fit from using electrons to using Ions - And I never had trouble with electrons except at one time my targets slipped outside my optimal range...
Pinky |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
65
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:37:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote: most t1 platforms for the race cant tank nearly as well as the other three races
Maelstrom has the most powerful tank of all t1 subcaps. Of all races.
Ya my guess would be he missed that part were ccp fixed Minmatar tanks to be on par with everyone alse but left the OP weapons on them. |
Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:54:00 -
[1006] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:Believe me you can easily fit a nice Hyperion, however it's' obviously not designed to fit the biggest guns, mwd, 1-2 heavy cap boosters and dual reps without any fitting mods... It's called balance and all the Hyperion need is a boost to active tanking in general.
With the new changes I could upgrade my favorite Hyperion fit from using electrons to using Ions - And I never had trouble with electrons except at one time my targets slipped outside my optimal range...
Pinky You are telling me that you can make the ship work if you try hard enough. That is correct. However i do not think that current situation is acceptable nevertheless. We have to use bad guns, use fitting mods and still get a ship that is inferior to it's competition in just about everything. Even rokh is better as an active tank, it hits 40km away, tanks 40% more dps and has bigger EHP. A ship with a resist bonus and no damage bonus is superiour than a ship designed for the sole purpose of active tanking. That is embarrassing. And yes, i do fly rokh over hyperion in some cases, and i have higher skill in gal. BS. And don't even get me started on the Abbadon.
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Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:55:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:Maxsim Goratiev wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote: most t1 platforms for the race cant tank nearly as well as the other three races
Maelstrom has the most powerful tank of all t1 subcaps. Of all races. Ya my guess would be he missed that part were ccp fixed Minmatar tanks to be on par with everyone alse but left the OP weapons on them.
maelstrom has a great tank? would you like to buy the brooklyn bridge? i am finally ready to sell it. the bank wants me to short sell so, i will sell it to you cheaply. |
Miriiah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2011.11.20 02:36:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Atleast make Null 50% optial/falloff and give rails another 5% damage to help them atleast abit as you don't want to do any major changes with them for the time being :s |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 03:00:00 -
[1009] - Quote
The Hyperion has several advantages over the Rokh :
- Speed
- Damage Bonus
- Twice the drone bay in addition
- Versatility (5 meds for shield/ganksetups or plenty EWAR/Tackle)
Even before the current talk about boosting hybrids the Hyperion was a nice ship only being let down by the poor performance of active tanking mods and silly Gallente people naive enough to think it should be a straight out better ship than a Megathron... |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
435
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 03:29:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Shouldn't it be tho? Considering it's a tier 3 battleship and meant to be the 'ultimate blaster platform'.
If they could change the active tank bonus to something more fleet oriented to put it on the same caliber as an Abaddon would be pretty nice.
I still prefer a Domi though.
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Rigel Silek
Spartan Forgeworks
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 05:55:00 -
[1011] - Quote
I like the changes coming to hybrids but I think they still don't go far enough where blasters are concerned. They need more falloff since, as they are, there can be a large gap between max range of blasters and ranges where autocannons and pulse lasers can effectively apply damage.
I'd also like to see change changes in how hybrids apply damage. I think it'd fit with the idea behind the weapons if, for blasters, the damage multiplier was increased and rate of fire decreased to make them high alpha/low DPS guns. Similarly, railguns could have damage multiplier left as it is and rate of fire increased to make them relatively low alpha/high DPS guns.
Lasers could also be changed to make beam and pulse lasers relatively equal in alpha and DPS but vary mainly in range.
On a side note, I think it's conceivable that hybrids could deal all four damage types at once. The change would mean giving them explosive damage that varies based on ammo type while all ammo types deal the same amount of EM damage. Now, before you shout overpowered, the amount of EM and explosive damage would be quite low.
The idea behind this is that the 'shell' of the blaster bolt would cause EM damage while railguns would apply a slight EM effect to the charge. Explosive damage would be caused by the heat/speed of the charge impacting the armor/hull causing a small explosion. This idea for explosive damage could also be used for lasers as well.
Well... Enough of my rambling. I'm sure someone will call my ideas stupid and me an idiot for even suggesting such changes but oh well! lol |
Gavius
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.20 09:45:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Not sure if anything like this has ever been suggested, but as a possible fix for rails, why not give them a sort of inverse fall-off? The idea being, if you have a 500 dps @ 50km optimal (arbitrary numbers just for simplicity) rail fit, it does 250 dps @ 25km, 300 @ 30, 400 @ 40km, etc. Like the polar opposite of blasters. Then at ranges past 50km, you have a sharp fall off again. Or not. Just a rough concept I'm sure someone can polish into a better idea.
This would give rails a very unique flavor, and would support hybrids philosophy of extreme damage at extreme ranges. It would make rails the premier sniping platform at extreme ranges while leaving the "middle" ranges left to lasers and projectiles. Low damage and high ROF would keep them outdamaging arties while leaving artillery with the high alpha strike flavor. That way blasters would facemelt up close but have very little damage at range, and rails would have negligible damage up close but would facemelt things at the opposite end of the spectrum.
It would also allow a clarification of roles between Gallente and Caldari platforms as you could change all the optimal bonuses on the Cald boats to supplement the new inverse fall off, and cater the gallante bonuses towards blasters without inadvertently buffing them as rail platforms.
Of course adding new game mechanics like that is not a simple fix... |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
394
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:04:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:i'm actually looking forward to the changes that are coming. 2 vigs 2 DD's and 2 comets ready to go.
been flying minmatar for far too long and these damage and tracking changes are the shot in the arm i needed to change races
yeah, like blaster frigates needed a boost
also, the cynabal will still be much superior to the vigilant. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
214
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 11:42:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:i'm actually looking forward to the changes that are coming. 2 vigs 2 DD's and 2 comets ready to go.
been flying minmatar for far too long and these damage and tracking changes are the shot in the arm i needed to change races yeah, like blaster frigates needed a boost
Yeah, hybrid frigates are basically fine and don't need any changes. The Daredevil and Taranis, for example, certainly don't need to become any better, and applying these changes will damage game balance.
I'm a bit worried that CCP hasn't commented on this at all. They seem to be going down their usual route of blanket changes again, despite the problems that arose when they did this with projectiles. In both cases, the result is that the ships that benefit most from the changes are the ships that don't actually need boosting at all. It's not a clever way of doing things. |
m0cking bird
Doomheim
95
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Posted - 2011.11.20 12:03:00 -
[1015] - Quote
The changes to small blasters is not great. If you knew anything about what you're talking about you know this has changed nothing. What has changed in a significant way is rail set-ups. If you were using the Taranis and Comet (like I have) to destroy Dramiel. This has become easier. Caldari frigates that use blasters have had a significant increase though. Tracking is very important when it comes to frigate combat. In the past or now. You could abuse the tracking of a Harpy, with a Jaguar for example. That will change. Also alot less capacitor usage is a logical and big plus, but more so for Caldari blaster ships.
Also, unlike what happened to small auto-cannons (increased damage output and applied damage + falloff). Blasters did not get a increase to applied damage. No increase in optimal and falloff.
Suggesting this makes them unbalanced. Shows that alot of you have no idea what you're on about. Small blasters would have been better helped with a increase in applied damage. Also, small rail-guns are superior to blasters in frigate versus frigate combat. Blasters are superior in dealing with larger ships, for the most part.
Anyway, thank CCP for some slight love to small blasters and stfu.... Small blasters are not as great as most of the r3t@rds claim them to be...
Thank you CCP
-proxyyyy |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 12:25:00 -
[1016] - Quote
1: Hyperion and other tier 3 BS are not supposed to be ultimate anything - They are supposed to be strong battleships dedicated to survive a punishment that would make other battleships explode while doing good dps. Each race has a dps battleship already that is designed for damage (armageddon, raven, megathron/dominix, Tempest/Typhoon) so plz don't come here tell me Hyperion is supposed to be the ultimate blasterboat that should do more dps. (And yes the dominix is an amazingly versatile fast battleship that can do a lot of dps with a stupid hard tank)
2: Blasters has a lot of dps because of the short range. changing the blaster for more range is against the concept of Eve and instead the next part of balancing will be looking into each individual ship making sure they have a FAIR chance of getting to blaster range without making them overpowered. this might not be easy against races like minmatar but you do have an option for drones and railguns as well as flying with other people helping with tackle.
3: Small blasters seems to be working better because frigates are good at getting close to people. But let it go for now and help tweak individual ships next... |
Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2011.11.20 16:16:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Seriously, if any of you are thinking of flying hybrids in fleet after crucible is released, probably you have to do it at your own expense. No fleet FC is going to favor this platform. Armour - Abbadon - shoot any thing within 90 kms - have a tank of 200k EHP Shield - Maelstrom - Alpha from 50km onwards till 120km - Full tank fit with a sensor/prop mod - Lows full gank fit. This is going to stay. Probably hybrid may be used for tackle soon after the release. After sometime when this much hyped hybrid rebalance cools down, because of massive fails of hybrid ships things will come back to hurricanes/drakes as before.
People will definitely fly Vigi, DD and Vindi, but only in roams.
In PVE no changes.
CCP will not do any more changes to Hybrid after this release. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 16:27:00 -
[1018] - Quote
For some reason that sounds good - Hybrids are not to be the new FOTM... They are just to be a balanced alternative. Granted hybrid buff still need a little more edge to be unique but at least hybrids no longer limp after everything else like a 3-legged dog... And PvE wise I'm sure people will start using hybrids more against gurista and shadow serpentis. I would prefer Rokh over Raven with the current buff to cap and damage just to get away from trivial missile slinging.
Pinky |
Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2011.11.20 16:36:00 -
[1019] - Quote
You have to use a Rokh to know its advantages and disadvantages. And after you use it in PVE will you realise that these changes have done NOTHING to upgrade the performance of the Rokh and I can say it will be same for all PVEing hybrid ships.
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Cheekything
Dark-Rising
95
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 16:44:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:The Hyperion has several advantages over the Rokh : - Speed
- Damage Bonus
- Twice the drone bay in addition
- Versatility (5 meds for shield/ganksetups or plenty EWAR/Tackle)
Even before the current talk about boosting hybrids the Hyperion was a nice ship only being let down by the poor performance of active tanking mods and silly Gallente people naive enough to think it should be a straight out better ship than a Megathron...
Sadly Range and shield (buffer and damage lows) is why people choose the rokh. |
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