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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.08 17:48:00 -
[1621] - Quote
at least, every race should have a ship that can be used for the same task equally good.
and now projektils/minmatar are not only the best in pvp but also in pve for example the machariel fitted for high alpha onshots rat battleships in belts at a distance of 100km
is that balance ? with railguns u are happy when u hit 25% shield at this distance
same with lazors or missiles and sentrys aint better either :( damage drones nowdays are becoming even useles after so many turret bufs so drone ships are also the worst choise for pve or pvp |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
61
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Posted - 2012.01.08 18:59:00 -
[1622] - Quote
I have a crazy idea...
...Maybe Hybrid platforms could do with a 5 to 25% (role bonus, per level of cruiser required) reduction to fitting requirements to the weapons they are supposed to use, like caldari get that bonus applied only to railguns, whiel gallente get that bonus applied only to blasters? :) |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.08 19:19:00 -
[1623] - Quote
Morgan North wrote:I have a crazy idea...
...Maybe Hybrid platforms could do with a 5 to 25% (role bonus, per level of cruiser required) reduction to fitting requirements to the weapons they are supposed to use, like caldari get that bonus applied only to railguns, whiel gallente get that bonus applied only to blasters? :)
they already got that with the last patch:D and if they do it again it would change nothing, maybe a few more slots on galente ships would do the trick (low/med) |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
61
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Posted - 2012.01.08 20:00:00 -
[1624] - Quote
They lowered all hybrid weapon's requirements yes. But I'm not talking that, but rather, about giving Gallente a Blaster-specific bonus that also works as a railgun-specific penalty (or lack of bonus) while giving caldari a railgun-specific bonus that doest' apply to blasters. In orde to further breach the gap and reward people who want to fy Blasters/Railguns.
But its just an idea. ;)
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.08 20:06:00 -
[1625] - Quote
Morgan North wrote:They lowered all hybrid weapon's requirements yes. But I'm not talking that, but rather, about giving Gallente a Blaster-specific bonus that also works as a railgun-specific penalty (or lack of bonus) while giving caldari a railgun-specific bonus that doest' apply to blasters. In orde to further breach the gap and reward people who want to fy Blasters/Railguns.
But its just an idea. ;)
that should be more like if u use blasters on ur ship u unlok 1 med and 1 low slot extra:D |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.01.08 20:32:00 -
[1626] - Quote
Morgan North wrote:Rails should deal Alpha. Thats what they are there for. DPS should be Artilery/Autocannons/Blasters. Thats pretty much how you balance the things and make them viable.
Agreed. Admittedly I never thought of this, but I don't see why not. At least it goes some way in "sharing" the current Winmatar crown. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
374
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Posted - 2012.01.08 20:32:00 -
[1627] - Quote
CCP, what are you doing with medium rails? the dps is too low, and you cant fit 250's on anything except a shield Astarte. and even then, it's too squishy with average dps. medium rails are unusable.
null buff is great for ships like the Mega/Vindi, Rokh and Vigi/ Deimos. unfortunately, 425mm's will still vastly outperform Heavy Neutrons on my shield Myrm. maybe thats fine.
after null is buffed, you have to do something about rails. i wont even mention drones, your brains would probably melt down from all the thinking. but drones boats suck in pvp, compared to their turret counterparts. Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar. |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.01.08 20:38:00 -
[1628] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:I prefer balance to be that all weapon systems have something unique but equally desirable according to circumstances AND every ship in a given class should have an option to be able to defend itself. Being able to pin someone at a range (outside of specialist ships for the purpose) whilst able to shoot them and not be shot in return is the major imbalance for blasters. Rails have no unique desirable feature.
This sums it all up quite nicely. I'd like to make a small addition in suggesting, possibly, hybrid ships getting that missing "unique desirable feature." Either way, there is fresh evidence showing an utter lack of appeal for hybrids, despite Crucible buffs.. "Appeal" needs to be added to hybrids more than anything. I hope you're reading this one, CCP. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.08 22:50:00 -
[1629] - Quote
something more about drones after ccp changed the pve mechaniks so npc can aggro drones they got even more useles and in some enviroments speak Wormholes/lvl 5 missions and a few more u cant use them at all cuz the npc do change targets
thats also a big gallente issue |
Hamox
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.01.08 23:11:00 -
[1630] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.
I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target.
About the Ammo changes: Wouldn't it be easier to change the range on the weapon instead of changing e.g. Null in general, then realize that Medium and Large need different changes, do this changes, then realize that T2 is okay but T1 and faction suck, then change T1 Ammo, after that you realize that balance between tier 1 and 2 and 3 are not okay and finally end up with changing the weapon. So why not leave Ammo as it is and change the weapons directly? The Ammo should only give the extra juice but not the general balance becouse the dependencies and combinations are hard to predict.
So lets better think about what a T1 Med Blaster should be able to do and what the T2 should do better and then just change the Weapons accordingly, makes sense?
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Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
35
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Posted - 2012.01.08 23:22:00 -
[1631] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:something more about drones after ccp changed the pve mechaniks so npc can aggro drones they got even more useles and in some enviroments speak Wormholes/lvl 5 missions and a few more u cant use them at all cuz the npc do change targets
thats also a big gallente issue
This was actually ninja changed in crucible. In a couple of the sites, such as an exceptional grav site which only has 1 BS which has troubles hitting small ECM drones, I'd use EC-300s to jam/get him to swap. I tried to do it last week and the sleepers only changed to drones after a jam cycle went off (reagro appears to be random), but then swapped right back to me before even popping it. |
Hamox
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.01.08 23:43:00 -
[1632] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:Hamox wrote:tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
projektiles where crap before 2007 now they are overpowered what does it tell u ??
That Hybrids will be overpowered 2017? i was hoping to say that huge changes can be made any time in mmos. and i dont wont hybrids to be overpowered just equal with less then 5% diference in performance compared to other guns. thats balance what we have now are huge jumps between them
Hey this was a nice german joke. I can not understand how you could misunderstand it! :)
The joke was that it will take 5 years with half baked changes and then overnight a Dev decides to finally fix Blasters. In my scenario he gives them a sort of special Hybrid X-Ray 2000 (produced by Binford who has recently started to support Gallente) that shots like a corona without the need to lock a target so you can melt the electronic of every enemy ship on the GRID. To balance it he decides to reduce the Signature Strengh with 5% (or maybe 7.5%, he is not sure and doesn't want to make dramatic changes) so you will lock a bit slower if you decide to do something other to your target instead of just melt it :) After the first 50000 Minmatar winers they will propably also reduce Gallente agility slightly while Minmatar Pilots complaining that this will not change anything. In the meantime Amarr just decides to use Hybrids on a Abandon and Caldari scraps all missle boats and hopes that X-Ray 2000 will be introduced to Railguns in the next sommer update :P
Sidenote: The Caldari could also use Blasters on their Hybrid plattforms but they decided that they are too proud to use Gallente crap! Unfortunately Minmatar doesn't find any X-Ray 2000 on their scrap yard so they decide to salvage the old Caldari missles boats and combine them with Projektiles, maybe this could help vs X-Ray 2000? We will find out soon, approx 2019! |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.09 07:33:00 -
[1633] - Quote
Hamox wrote:tEcHnOkRaT wrote:Hamox wrote:tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
projektiles where crap before 2007 now they are overpowered what does it tell u ??
That Hybrids will be overpowered 2017? i was hoping to say that huge changes can be made any time in mmos. and i dont wont hybrids to be overpowered just equal with less then 5% diference in performance compared to other guns. thats balance what we have now are huge jumps between them Hey this was a nice german joke. I can not understand how you could misunderstand it! :) The joke was that it will take 5 years with half baked changes and then overnight a Dev decides to finally fix Blasters. In my scenario he gives them a sort of special Hybrid X-Ray 2000 (produced by Binford who has recently started to support Gallente) that shots like a corona without the need to lock a target so you can melt the electronic of every enemy ship on the GRID. To balance it he decides to reduce the Signature Strengh with 5% (or maybe 7.5%, he is not sure and doesn't want to make dramatic changes) so you will lock a bit slower if you decide to do something other to your target instead of just melt it :) After the first 50000 Minmatar winers they will propably also reduce Gallente agility slightly while Minmatar Pilots complaining that this will not change anything. In the meantime Amarr just decides to use Hybrids on a Abandon and Caldari scraps all missle boats and hopes that X-Ray 2000 will be introduced to Railguns in the next sommer update :P Sidenote: The Caldari could also use Blasters on their Hybrid plattforms but they decided that they are too proud to use Gallente crap! Unfortunately Minmatar doesn't find any X-Ray 2000 on their scrap yard so they decide to salvage the old Caldari missles boats and combine them with Projektiles, maybe this could help vs X-Ray 2000? We will find out soon, approx 2019!
hehe :D |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.01.09 11:01:00 -
[1634] - Quote
Hamox wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar. I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target.
Sentry drone ships received a Master Almost-Ninja Buff in Crucible. It's called the Reconnect to lost drone -key shortcut.
I've had great success with abandon/reconnects, it allows new kind of tactics, mixing sentry and conventional drones. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.09 12:53:00 -
[1635] - Quote
Uinuva Karma wrote:Hamox wrote:Hungry Eyes wrote:... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar. I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target. Sentry drone ships received a Master Almost-Ninja Buff in Crucible. It's called the Reconnect to lost drone -key shortcut. I've had great success with abandon/reconnects, it allows new kind of tactics, mixing sentry and conventional drones.
it is only good if u get disconect and to use them for warp out pvp is a good tactic to just loose them cuz sentrys are easy to kill and with 400~ dps u wont do mutch damage to becoume a real treat before the drones get killed
and heavy drones are sitting ducks too slow for pvp or pve
and i had also great succes on reconecting to them after i got disconected :D |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.01.09 16:36:00 -
[1636] - Quote
Imaginative more you must be if succeed you want, mhrmrm, young Jedi
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Vokradacka
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.01.09 16:55:00 -
[1637] - Quote
we need something like ... ---- teleport all drones to cargo bay "icon" + damage all for 90% shield\armor\structure --- .... its fair enough |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
45
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Posted - 2012.01.09 20:00:00 -
[1638] - Quote
Another week or so gone, new figures;
1Maelstrom57868 2Drake42169 3Hurricane34209 4Tengu25683 5Abaddon23004 6Tornado14330 7Tempest11939 8Scimitar10217 9Sabre8760 10Armageddon7463 11Zealot6618 12Huginn6565 13Cynabal6272 14Manticore6188 15Scorpion6167 16Hound6041 17Rapier5998 18Vagabond5694 19Nyx5659 20Oracle5401
1Heavy Missile Launcher II23039 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II15437 3425mm AutoCannon II11905 4Mega Pulse Laser II9333 5200mm AutoCannon II6178 6220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5194 7150mm Light AutoCannon II5142 8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II4900 9720mm Howitzer Artillery II4604 10800mm Repeating Artillery II4417 11Heavy Pulse Laser II3508 121400mm Gallium Cannon3371 13'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher3283 141400mm Prototype Siege Cannon3101 15425mm Railgun II1866 16Light Neutron Blaster II1799 17Citadel Torpedo Launcher I1653 18Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I1563 19Neutron Blaster Cannon II1552 20Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1527
No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.09 20:06:00 -
[1639] - Quote
Uinuva Karma wrote:Imaginative more you must be if succeed you want, mhrmrm, young Jedi
hay master yoda ^^ |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.09 20:10:00 -
[1640] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Another week or so gone, new figures;
1Maelstrom57868 2Drake42169 3Hurricane34209 4Tengu25683 5Abaddon23004 6Tornado14330 7Tempest11939 8Scimitar10217 9Sabre8760 10Armageddon7463 11Zealot6618 12Huginn6565 13Cynabal6272 14Manticore6188 15Scorpion6167 16Hound6041 17Rapier5998 18Vagabond5694 19Nyx5659 20Oracle5401
1Heavy Missile Launcher II23039 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II15437 3425mm AutoCannon II11905 4Mega Pulse Laser II9333 5200mm AutoCannon II6178 6220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5194 7150mm Light AutoCannon II5142 8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II4900 9720mm Howitzer Artillery II4604 10800mm Repeating Artillery II4417 11Heavy Pulse Laser II3508 121400mm Gallium Cannon3371 13'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher3283 141400mm Prototype Siege Cannon3101 15425mm Railgun II1866 16Light Neutron Blaster II1799 17Citadel Torpedo Launcher I1653 18Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I1563 19Neutron Blaster Cannon II1552 20Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1527
No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful.
oh boy oh boy fleet maelstrom banned the abbadon
dark days indeed i wonder how big is the persentage now of projectile/minmatar ships in use comared to all 3 races together :D |
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.09 20:23:00 -
[1641] - Quote
dont forget lazors are just a bit better then hybrids but projectile platforms are by far better then lazors
so all weapon platforms need a buff or the projectiles need a nerf |
M1AU
Farstriders New Eden Industrie Alliance
46
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Posted - 2012.01.09 23:01:00 -
[1642] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:Another week or so gone, new figures;
1Maelstrom57868 2Drake42169 3Hurricane34209 4Tengu25683 5Abaddon23004 6Tornado14330 7Tempest11939 8Scimitar10217 9Sabre8760 10Armageddon7463 11Zealot6618 12Huginn6565 13Cynabal6272 14Manticore6188 15Scorpion6167 16Hound6041 17Rapier5998 18Vagabond5694 19Nyx5659 20Oracle5401
1Heavy Missile Launcher II23039 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II15437 3425mm AutoCannon II11905 4Mega Pulse Laser II9333 5200mm AutoCannon II6178 6220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5194 7150mm Light AutoCannon II5142 8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II4900 9720mm Howitzer Artillery II4604 10800mm Repeating Artillery II4417 11Heavy Pulse Laser II3508 121400mm Gallium Cannon3371 13'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher3283 141400mm Prototype Siege Cannon3101 15425mm Railgun II1866 16Light Neutron Blaster II1799 17Citadel Torpedo Launcher I1653 18Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I1563 19Neutron Blaster Cannon II1552 20Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1527
No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful.
Didn't know so many Nyx SCs blowing up nowadays huh? Or should that be Onyx? Edit: or are those numbers final blows? |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
35
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Posted - 2012.01.10 00:15:00 -
[1643] - Quote
Nikuno wrote:No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful.
Just going to state, you can't determine if something is balanced based on popularity. People are already trained for Maelstroms, Baddons, and Drakes, and the blobfests aren't going to change fleet doctrine unless its to something more powerful. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.10 08:59:00 -
[1644] - Quote
Jaigar wrote:Nikuno wrote:No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful. Just going to state, you can't determine if something is balanced based on popularity. People are already trained for Maelstroms, Baddons, and Drakes, and the blobfests aren't going to change fleet doctrine unless its to something more powerful.
yep
from abadon to maelstrom :D as u need only half the ships to kill something in an alpha strike
basic math mate basic math |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
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Posted - 2012.01.10 09:10:00 -
[1645] - Quote
Also rapier/huginn are there but not other recon and that cant be explained by projectile>> other weapons --> other recons needs a boost. |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
45
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Posted - 2012.01.10 11:26:00 -
[1646] - Quote
Jaigar wrote:Nikuno wrote:No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful. Just going to state, you can't determine if something is balanced based on popularity. People are already trained for Maelstroms, Baddons, and Drakes, and the blobfests aren't going to change fleet doctrine unless its to something more powerful.
So, following your logic, people trained for Maelstroms, Abaddons and Drakes for some random reason that had nothing to do with their being more useful/powerful/successful and it was pure coincidence that they just turned out to be so wonderfully good? People train for them because they're the best, because if they train gallente/hybrid equivalents then they don't get into fleets. Your logic isn't even circular, it just springs from nowhere on a passing lack of thought !
As for recons, the gallente recons are fine if you want to use warp disruptors/scramblers, but the sensor dampeners continue to linger in the realm of almost pointless compared to their ecm counterparts.
And while we're at it I might as well get the full set and also point out, yet again, that information warfare links are utterly abysmal and should be replaced with something people could actually make use of, or at the very least the bonuses should be reviewed. Even the sensor integrity link on an Eos with a mindlink gives a bonus that scrapes a pathetic percentage of the effectiveness of the eccm mods, whilst a passive armour/shield resist link will give bonuses close to or exceeding their BEST faction mods. And don't even get me started on skirmish mods and their bonuses ! Come on CCP, it's another thing that has been broken for years, in the light of your current aim of fixing broken content - when will this be looked at ! |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
856
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Posted - 2012.01.10 11:45:00 -
[1647] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:dont forget lazors are just a bit better then hybrids
Really? Actually show me any decent rails fleet fit that can dish 10k alpha strikes because this never happened before the changes with implants/boosters whatever, doesn't happen after changes blahblahblah and will certainly not happen at the end of this new year.
I've read somewhere maxed laser pilots can dish 20k volleys with faction ships -Nightmare Price tag vs Males is not the same for sure but it could be interesting to see what a full fleet of those could do (r+ñpe face everyone in the system probably)
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.10 11:51:00 -
[1648] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:tEcHnOkRaT wrote:dont forget lazors are just a bit better then hybrids Really? Actually show me any decent rails fleet fit that can dish 10k alpha strikes because this never happened before the changes with implants/boosters whatever, doesn't happen after changes blahblahblah and will certainly not happen at the end of this new year. I've read somewhere maxed laser pilots can dish 20k volleys with faction ships -Nightmare Price tag vs Males is not the same for sure but it could be interesting to see what a full fleet of those could do (r+ñpe face everyone in the system probably)
i would like to see this fit |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
856
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Posted - 2012.01.10 11:53:00 -
[1649] - Quote
Jaigar wrote:Nikuno wrote:No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful. Just going to state, you can't determine if something is balanced based on popularity. People are already trained for Maelstroms, Baddons, and Drakes, and the blobfests aren't going to change fleet doctrine unless its to something more powerful.
Just give me the ability to SD in about 10sec and do massive dmg at 15km around my ship explosion function of the quality/quantity ammo left in the cargo at the moment of that explosion.
Blob exterminated for ever.
If you want to deal with this blob issue it's not by introducing tools like Tier 3 BC's that you are going to avoid those or change something, it's by giving the tools to players. ATM there's none other than "disconnect" and go play WT's or BF3 (personally don't play those but know a lot of people doing it)
EDIT: even on SISI where ships cost 100isk you don't see that much gallente/calamari hybrid stuff or just one trying here, another trying there and 1h latter it's all drakes/vagas/cynas/drams/maelstroms/machariels/tornados/oracles and OC capitals/super cakes |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.01.10 16:39:00 -
[1650] - Quote
Jaigar wrote:Nikuno wrote:No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful. Just going to state, you can't determine if something is balanced based on popularity. People are already trained for Maelstroms, Baddons, and Drakes, and the blobfests aren't going to change fleet doctrine unless its to something more powerful.
Not sure I agree on this. I'd also venture to say the point is moot. I personally am hoping CCP approaches this "balancing" problem two-fold: firstly, as a means to make hybrids more effective when compared to its counterparts, but more importantly, giving hybrids a desirable feature which will increase its popularity AND its effectiveness at the same time.
You could argue blasters already have a "desirable feature" as they have the highest dps in the game. However, the truth of the matter is, range is so pathetically short and the hybrid platforms which use these turrets are not fast enough to make any real use of it. In addition to this, blasters' claim to the dps crown is THE ONLY desirable trait. There is nothing else. Rails don't have a single characteristic worth mentioning.
Whether or not you choose to correlate hybrid shortcomings to its lack of pvp popularity is your choice. You could also take a look at the market and explain to me why an Astarte is significantly cheaper than a Sleipnir, and whatever explanation you want to give, it's your choice.
In any case, I don't think it's a stretch to say:
-effective turrets get used in pvp, period -effective ships get used in pvp, period -players WILL figure out how to use effective items IF they have desirable traits (plural)
Argue cause and effect all you want, but such a debate is meaningless when you're missing both the cause (effectiveness) and effect (popularity). More to the point, the state of hybrids and hybrid platorms are missing both of these, and I do not think this is debatable. I think the market clearly shows this, as does the eve-kill.net top 20 stats page. |
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