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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
thoth rothschild
First Aid Emergency Service
67
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Posted - 2012.01.25 10:45:00 -
[1801] - Quote
let's be honest. I do fly what currently is the best cost vs isk solution for my current plans and situation. the only reason i put more than 2 minutes into this thread is because i wanted to fly soemthin different from time to time. For younger players this is something they might not support with only < 40 mio sp in their heads.
At least the vindicator is now the untouched king of the hill in station camping warefare. It was before but now for sure :D After these changes the bad gallente ships still suck and the good ones are nearly op now.
That shows me that the core problem was not related to the weapon platform or ammo itself but that it was tied to the ship hulls AND modules AND tanking system very very closely.
I highly recommend taking a look at tracking enhancers if you only like to touch numbers and still refuse to do more design work. changing numbers on tracking enhancer might bring the easiest balance you can get in eve but be aware that minmatar might no longer be popular after that. I don't care there's always a king and a new one will follow till the end of time. |
Af'ilia
The Directorate
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 11:56:00 -
[1802] - Quote
Heres my 2isk...
When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...
There is a balancing issue. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:44:00 -
[1803] - Quote
Af'ilia wrote:Heres my 2isk...
When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...
There is a balancing issue.
then try flying it and u will see how useless this dps is
well exept those weird undocking games
u put way to mutch trust on eft and ignore the common battlemechaniks that are being used in game |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
186
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:43:00 -
[1804] - Quote
here is a nerf for arties... usually in the real world artilitery are meant to do mass damage over a specific area... but in the game arties do mass damage over a small area... why not increase the base sig resolution of the guns... make large arties sit at 550 sig and so on... this would decrease thier end game number on the chance to hit formula and make other weapon systems to competitive damage? |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 18:06:00 -
[1805] - Quote
Af'ilia wrote:Heres my 2isk...
When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...
There is a balancing issue.
Forgive me, but I just can't help myself.
Battleclinic says you haven't logged a kill since April of 2010. That was nearly two years ago.
It also says your lifetime record is 59 and 73; not exactly impressive.
Of your 73 losses, you have ONE logged Gallente ship loss: a logi-fit Exequeror. So there is no available history showing you've used hybrids or Gallente ships in pvp, ever, at least not in a capacity where you were stripped of gang members who did your job for you.
Yet you come in here, cross-fit hybrid weapons on an amarr ship, and suggest hybrids are fine or overpowered because you see higher dps numbers?
Hybrids in the med and large sizes still need lots of help. You'd know this if you actually used them. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
651
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 18:48:00 -
[1806] - Quote
Magosian wrote:Af'ilia wrote:Heres my 2isk...
When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...
There is a balancing issue. Forgive me, but I just can't help myself. Battleclinic says you haven't logged a kill since April of 2010. That was nearly two years ago. It also says your lifetime record is 59 and 73; not exactly impressive. Of your 73 losses, you have ONE logged Gallente ship loss: a logi-fit Exequeror. So there is no available history showing you've used hybrids or Gallente ships in pvp, ever, at least not in a capacity where you were stripped of gang members who did your job for you. Yet you come in here, cross-fit hybrid weapons on an amarr ship, and suggest hybrids are fine or overpowered because you see higher dps numbers? Hybrids in the med and large sizes still need lots of help. You'd know this if you actually used them. Your statistics doesn't look impressive either, - 155 kills with a load of them being farmers - yet you have claims to be an expert in such a complex area as weapon balance. You can fly Gallente as much as you want, but lack of experience with other races combined with poor stats at Gallente themselves removes a great deal of validity from your words.
As someone with much more intense PvP record I find your general conclusion in the last line to be utterly clueless. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 19:33:00 -
[1807] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Magosian wrote:Af'ilia wrote:Heres my 2isk...
When I can fit an omen with blasters and get more dps than pulse...
There is a balancing issue. Forgive me, but I just can't help myself. Battleclinic says you haven't logged a kill since April of 2010. That was nearly two years ago. It also says your lifetime record is 59 and 73; not exactly impressive. Of your 73 losses, you have ONE logged Gallente ship loss: a logi-fit Exequeror. So there is no available history showing you've used hybrids or Gallente ships in pvp, ever, at least not in a capacity where you were stripped of gang members who did your job for you. Yet you come in here, cross-fit hybrid weapons on an amarr ship, and suggest hybrids are fine or overpowered because you see higher dps numbers? Hybrids in the med and large sizes still need lots of help. You'd know this if you actually used them. Your statistics doesn't look impressive either, - 155 kills with a load of them being farmers - yet you have claims to be an expert in such a complex area as weapon balance. You can fly Gallente as much as you want, but lack of experience with other races combined with poor stats at Gallente themselves removes a great deal of validity from your words. As someone with much more intense PvP record I find your general conclusion in the last line to be utterly clueless.
When did I ever make that claim? And I have plenty of experience with other races; I'm not sure what let you to believe I don't. I do not have the luxury of corp intel or corp backup. I choose my fights as I see fit. Wear my shoes, then talk.
The point is, someone who has no record of using hybrids is commenting on them. You can change the focus to me if you'd like, but my record is irrelevant.
EDIT: Incidentally you are ALSO in that group of people who neglects to use hybrids. Don't be a fool like the other guy and give some facade that you know why this thread should or should not exist. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
651
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:09:00 -
[1808] - Quote
This thread is there for a sole reason of competent players warning CCP about performing excessive steps on hybrids alone instead of treating the whole balance as a complex matter, where things like hulls, rigs, mods and so on also do have their role in making something superior or inferior.
Stating that 'med and large hybrids still need a lot of help' is getting us away from that.
Seriously, dude. Do you really believe I'm worse than you at PvP or that I hate Gallente or something equally absurd? I just don't get your point in arguing in the first place. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:30:00 -
[1809] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:This thread is there for a sole reason of competent players warning CCP about performing excessive steps on hybrids alone instead of treating the whole balance as a complex matter, where things like hulls, rigs, mods and so on also do have their role in making something superior or inferior.
Stating that 'med and large hybrids still need a lot of help' is getting us away from that.
Seriously, dude. Do you really believe I'm worse than you at PvP or that I hate Gallente or something equally absurd? I just don't get your point in arguing in the first place.
I have stated several times that the ships should be looked at just as much as the turrets themselves. Regardless of the root cause, medium and large hybrids suffer the most. There is a MONUMENTAL difference between using small blasters versues medium and large blasters.
I'm not comparing pvp records. I don't believe you hate Gallente. I never did or say either of those things. All I'm saying is that I've used all three sizes of hybrids in pvp and there is a noticable difference. Your record shows you have not spent the time to understand this. Same goes for Af'ilia.
Market values for Astarte vs Sleipnir is further indication of what I am saying. eve-kill.net's top-20 rankings of ships and weapons used further shows this is true. This very thread is littered with the same complaints from dozens of players. Whether or not "med and large hybrids still need a lot of help," as a statement, moves us away from how the problem should be solved doesn't mean it's a false statement. There is plenty of evidence to show it has merit.
Changes to null ammo is a step in the right direction. More is needed. If you're saying the focus should be on the ships, or something OTHER than the turrets, ok great. I've said the same thing several times in this thread already. At any rate, hybrids and hybrid platforms used in pvp are literally in the single-digit percentiles in the grand scheme of things, and that's what I'd like to see ultimately changed.
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:34:00 -
[1810] - Quote
Any reason why hybrid guns need to use cap ??? Projectile guns can do the same more or less but without cap need. Thats something should be looked at too. Maybe all hybrid ships base cap regen increased by 30-40% to comensate , so they are still not neut proof, but dont get behind projectile ships in cap dependancy ,as we know arties not only used due to imba alpha,but must better cap stability too as it lets ships to mwd more ( as winmatar ships already the fastest) which gives better control of range--> wins fights
Just a hint : tornado with arti range fit can mwd+fire for 9m from full cap and naga/talos can only do that for 3m :I completly uncalled disadvantage what isnt compensated by anything
maybe could be made that when firing hybrids cap recharge is lowered like 5%/turret |
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Kahz Niverrah
Viziam Amarr Empire
182
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Posted - 2012.01.25 20:45:00 -
[1811] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Any reason why hybrid guns need to use cap ??? Projectile guns can do the same more or less but without cap need. Thats something should be looked at too Obvious troll post incoming:
I propose all Gallente ships give up one of their damage bonuses in favor of a capacitor use bonus, like laser boats.
End troll post. But seriously, maybe just remove some of the overwhelming reasons to use projectiles instead of hybrids and lasers. Just sayin'. I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:53:00 -
[1812] - Quote
Kahz Niverrah wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Any reason why hybrid guns need to use cap ??? Projectile guns can do the same more or less but without cap need. Thats something should be looked at too Obvious troll post incoming: I propose all Gallente ships give up one of their damage bonuses in favor of a capacitor use bonus, like laser boats.End troll post. But seriously, maybe just remove some of the overwhelming reasons to use projectiles instead of hybrids and lasers. Just sayin'.
well i started a thread months ago to give some disadvantages to projectiles but the casual playerbase(winmatar pilots) want to keep their easy difficulties and qq-ed against it , so only thing remained is to boost the hybrids and maybe lasers :P
oh btw dont you find it strange that every advantages other races get is from the bonuses , and still minmatar gets "free" better speed/signature, like a hidden bonus for most of their ships |
Hamox
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:21:00 -
[1813] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:oh btw dont you find it strange that every advantages other races get is from the bonuses , and still minmatar gets "free" better speed/signature, like a hidden bonus for most of their ships
Maybe CCP's CEO felt in love with the Minmatar culture |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:07:00 -
[1814] - Quote
Hello all. Good times....
Rank Ships Kills 1 Drake 184015 2 Maelstrom 122055 3 Tengu 107609 4 Hurricane 93759 5 Abaddon 68809 6 Armageddon 47606 7 Tornado 42132 8 Scimitar 34675 9 Tempest 33565 10 Sabre 26533 11 Huginn 24567 12 Zealot 23110 13 Hound 20398 14 Cynabal 20227 15 Loki 18110 16 Manticore 17710 17 Lachesis 17693 18 Oracle 17454 19 Nyx 17362 20 Rapier 16969
Total ships used in top 20: 954358 Total kills involving a Gallente ship: 35055
So, two of the top twenty ships, which account for LESS THAN 4% (3.67%) of the kills listed here, involve Gallente. One is a supercarrier and one is Recon/Ewar; NEITHER are gunboats.
Moving on....
Rank Weapons Kills 1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 106667 2 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 34481 3 425mm AutoCannon II 33904 4 Mega Pulse Laser II 29749 5 200mm AutoCannon II 19433 6 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 16260 7 150mm Light AutoCannon II 16103 8 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 15491 9 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 13954 10 Heavy Pulse Laser II 12966 11 800mm Repeating Artillery II 11814 12 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 8346 13 425mm Railgun II 7117 14 1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon 6011 15 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 5728 16 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 5590 17 Light Neutron Blaster II 5493 18 1400mm Gallium Cannon 5300 19 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 5283 20 Neutron Blaster Cannon II 4937
Total kills by weapon-type in the top 20: 348524 Total kills involving a hybrid turret: 22830
Of all involved weapon types used in the top 20, hybrids comprise less than 7% (6.55%)......jesus, where do I start???
- railguns only show up once
- all blasters COMBINED are used less than the smallest and weakest projectile turret on the list: 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II
- there are FOUR tech 1 weapon systems, ALL OF WHICH have more presense than the T2 blasters listed
- the ONE Gallente claim-to-fame, a.k.a. drones, makes no appearance DESPITE this stat potentially being padded as most of the top-20 ships have drone bays
And before you say it, no, Null ammo is not going to change this. Crucible has been out for a while now with no change in hybrid or hybrid platform popularity. This thread absolutely deserves to be re-stickied and CCP devs need to re-engage the playerbase on how to further address this failed attempt at balancing hybrids as they need further tweaking or a total rework. |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:36:00 -
[1815] - Quote
to have a good combat ship u need the corect balance between damage and ehp ship speed, locking time and traking, effective shooting range, agility and signature radius
and to be honest gallente still have nothing usefull in this category its imposible to fit a galente ship that would be useful in more then only one specific task (high sec ganking, undock games) if u go for damage u lack everything else or fit a ship that has armor repair bonus with shields
amar have some ships that are above avarage caldari have tengu and the drake (drake only becouse its cheap and there is nothing else for them to choose exept the expensive tengu) minmatar have alot of great ships to choose from
that is a fail at balancing the game when only a few amar and many minmatar ships have something usefull to offer |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 17:30:00 -
[1816] - Quote
Just some random thoughts:
Hybrids do perform at the frigate level
- typical high speeds of the frigate class IN ADDITION TO typical high agility make closing the gap on unsuspecting ships fairly easy to do, ESPECIALLY when overloading prop modules. The gallente blaster philosophy works for frigates because there is sufficient speed and acceleration on high-speed, low-mass ships to execute it.
- most frigate-sized weapons have an effective range on par with or under warp scramber and webber ranges. This makes hybrids incredibly more useful in the world of frigate combat.
- drone speeds exceed most MWD-propped, nano'd frigates. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part, small drones don't have a problem keeping up with frigates in combat.
Conversely, hybrids do NOT perform at the cruiser/BC/BS level
- the ranges of propulsion-inhibiting tackle (warp scrams and webs, NOT disruptors) does not scale with weapons systems once in the medium and large classes. This is in tandem with blaster ranges ALSO not properly scaling with other weapon systems. Hybrids suffer twofold because of this (yes, even after the Null buffs)
- as ships get bigger, attainable speeds drop, but more importantlly, acceleration takes an incredible hit as ship mass increases. To this day, executing the blaster philsophy on anything larger than a destroyer is an absolute nightmare unless you're fighting on a structure/station or have a "warp to 0" option on your target.
Conclusions
- scaling/buffing propulsion-inhibiting tackle seems like a good idea for about 5 seconds, until you realize ALL ships and turrets would benefit from this change, thus fixing nothing.
- should further hybrid balancing changes take place (and I hope to god they do because they're still needed), pay patricular attention to what changes in the realm of frigate combat, as hybrids could easily become the powerhouse with even the slightest of changes.
- why not significantly buff the agility of Gallente and Caldari hybrid-bonused ships? And I'm not talking about that 3-5% crap from crucible, I'm talking 10-20%. This would provide a means to execute the blaster philosophy on larger ships as it counters propulsion penalties calcuated when props are running. It would significantly boost acceleration. It would curb penalties incurred from armor rigs and armor plates. The whole idea is: take my earlier description of hybrid-frigate combat and bring that capability to the larger ships.
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 18:19:00 -
[1817] - Quote
a significant increase of agility and decresed mass for galente hybrid using ships might do the trick but it wouldnt help the caldari hybrid ships they need aditionally a significant increase of optimal or a minimal increase of damage or a little bit of both
but those changes are only needed for medium/large hulls |
Hamox
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 18:24:00 -
[1818] - Quote
No, the real question is: Does CCP seriously want to balance anything or do they just want to gain some time so we stay with the game an pay. All tactics to hold Gal pilots to the game and not to annoy other players and large corps who have their "style of success".
No reply from Tallest, even nothing regarding the latest Null changes, just nothing. Nobody knows if there will be more changes or if this is it. A huge communication fail from CCP as usual. But this time it hurts becouse after the promisses from the CEO with his marketing blablah letter people really expected some changes. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 13:08:00 -
[1819] - Quote
Hamox wrote:No, the real question is: Does CCP seriously want to balance anything or do they just want to gain some time so we stay with the game an pay. All tactics to hold Gal pilots to the game and not to annoy other players and large corps who have their "style of success".
No reply from Tallest, even nothing regarding the latest Null changes, just nothing. Nobody knows if there will be more changes or if this is it. A huge communication fail from CCP as usual. But this time it hurts becouse after the promisses from the CEO with his marketing blablah letter people really expected some changes. Well only thing to do is sell chars and freeze acc :P good luck with boring winmatar online |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:46:00 -
[1820] - Quote
Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?
It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow. |
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 20:08:00 -
[1821] - Quote
the last few days i been playing around with eft and i must say the galente hybrid dps looks really great
but when i combine it with tank, speed and range, i just cant find anything usefull the backdraws are simply too great when u try to have a usefull mix anything that goes beyond void / jevelin range is by far inferior to min/amar
and it leaves galente only a small niche in gameplay but if u give them more damage, range or speed it would make them OP
so really to increase galente acceleration is the only option left without making them OP
and as for the drone boats they need a small increase in drone damage and the sentrys need the ability to follow users ship, nothing more
caldary hybrid using ships are a comletly diferent problem as the 10% optimal to ship bonus is not enough for anything fitted blasters still lack the range and damage and railguns are outdamaged by anything else
i see caldari hybrids as completly broken |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
186
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 22:11:00 -
[1822] - Quote
qwick fix for caldari would be remove the optimal range bonus and replace with a rate of fire bonus... dps will go up 33%... |
Ninevite
Shiva Initiative Mercenaries
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 05:53:00 -
[1823] - Quote
CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 11:27:00 -
[1824] - Quote
Ninevite wrote:CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses this sollution -> stop paying |
Hamox
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 11:45:00 -
[1825] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Ninevite wrote:CCP isn't even reading this because they don't give a ****, they just make these threads to give the impression that they are listening and to make you pay for a few months more waiting and hoping for CCP to pull their head out of their asses this sollution -> stop paying
This I have done 3 weeks ago. I have 900M ISK and a few ships. I will sell this ships so I can afford 2 Plex, giving me 2 additional month. If things don't change in that time I will just quit EVE. I explained the reasons very clearly when I unsubed: - CCP communication is a big fail - Hybrids balance is a fail - Overall balance is a fail - CCP communication is a big fail again - Name should be changed to Minmatar online instead of EVE - CCP communication is an epic fail - CCP treats his customers like stupid idiots
I think this is the only way. They have to feel it on the income.
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Mariner6
EVE University Ivy League
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:06:00 -
[1826] - Quote
Magosian wrote:Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?
It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow.
I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls.
No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp.
There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.) |
RackotPrime
CONCORD OF UKRAINE Flame Bridge
84
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 07:25:00 -
[1827] - Quote
Mariner6 wrote:Magosian wrote:Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?
It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow. I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls. No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp. There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.) nerf minmatar speed and change armor rig penalty, in armor tank minmatars will lose damage, range ans agility, so there no problems at all
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys EXPLO. KINETIK und ein wenig THERMAL
14
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Posted - 2012.01.30 09:00:00 -
[1828] - Quote
RackotPrime wrote:Mariner6 wrote:Magosian wrote:Also consider introducing a mechanism that allows pilots to remove drawback completely. Armor rigs are absolutely stupid on any ship who hopes to get in range of a target who has higher base speed in the first place. Say, 20% reduction to drawback per trained level of rigging, obviously 100% reduction at level V?
It's sensible and logical, and drawbacks never really made any sense anyhow. I agree with the whole problem with Gallente getting into range issues. However, I think there will be 2nd and 3rd order effects of doing what you propose. If you get rid of the draw back to armor rigs, sure it will help Gallente ships, but it will also help all other ships. Particularly the Hurricane. Can you imagine a armor tanked hurricane that is just as fast as a current shield tanked version? With its already very small sig radius that will become the preferred close in killer because it will be faster, tank more, still put out dps regardless of neuting etc etc. So, I submit that changes to rigs/drawbacks are not the answer. The answer must be found in changing the base stats to Gallente hulls. No easy solution, though we are all on the same side. What would you think of Gallente ships able to come out of warp faster than any other ship. I'm all about having to do the work to get a punt/warp in on a target. But the problem is by the time you land and decelerate out of warp and begin the targeting process, the target has burned out of scram/web range even with a perfect interdiction maneuvers boost. Perhaps if gallente ships could do that warp braking/acceleration to max warp speed faster then the chances of getting a hard and heavy tackle on the target would go up significantly. Overall I think Gallente needs some ships boosted for heavy tackle. Like the Brutix with a big boost to scram (and scram only) range. Some where near 20km's with perfect skills and interdiction maneuvers boost. Give the myrm a similar boost to web range. Make those two ships work together to get heavy tackle on all these kiters, but the key will have to be higher scan resolution and a much faster braking out of warp. There is no way to make Gallente so fast as to be a chasing kiters without screwing up the whole game. Smart tactics and team work will be required, but as it stands right now the mechanics don't exist to really counter kiting even with perfect punts. (sure you get warp disrupter, but that's near worthless particularly against these tier 3 bc's.) nerf minmatar speed and change armor rig penalty, in armor tank minmatars will lose damage, range ans agility, so there no problems at all
why not just remove minmatar completely? .. srsly dude .. troll somewhere else.
to the issue at hand: well im still no expert, but the longer this whole issue festers around the more i believe blaster ships need to be the fastest ships. i don't know about that agility though. shouldn't be the kiters more agile but not quite as fast as the brawler, for the brawler just wants to get into the thick of battle while the kiter likes to wiggle himself out of the way? i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...
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RackotPrime
CONCORD OF UKRAINE Flame Bridge
84
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Posted - 2012.01.30 10:27:00 -
[1829] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote: i always thought of the brutix as the bull charging like hell and not as the ballerina...
whit no speed penalty from rigs brutix are really became a bull, and be more able to get in blaster range winmatars afraid to loss "win" button? |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.30 11:37:00 -
[1830] - Quote
its agility and acceleration, what blaster ships need now |
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