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Thufir Bezluden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.11.18 14:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
No fun training millions of SP for drones so they can be ripped to bits by bots using something closer to sleeper Ai and instantly agro them. Don't get me wrong, I like that they'll take some heat for being the ship raping sob's they are, but to have half my drones eaten in a level 3 within a minute when I have full agro is just wrong. Tone it down so drone skills won't just be for pvp.
How about removing the aggressive so you have to order the drones to attack a target. No orders, no attack. Must be a better way to ruin 'botters' day than screw it up for people actually playing. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
335
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Posted - 2013.11.18 15:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
With the NPC AI changes, it might be helpful to think of drones as basically short-range weapons, for targets within, say, blaster range. Hold 'em close, and recalling them when they catch aggro shouldn't be such an issue (provided they don't get webbed down by something like a spider drone). "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
hellcane
Never Back Down
96
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Posted - 2013.11.18 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Don't release drones then ignore them? |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
758
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Posted - 2013.11.18 18:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thufir Bezluden wrote:No fun training millions of SP for drones so they can be ripped to bits by bots using something closer to sleeper Ai and instantly agro them. Don't get me wrong, I like that they'll take some heat for being the ship raping sob's they are, but to have half my drones eaten in a level 3 within a minute when I have full agro is just wrong. Tone it down so drone skills won't just be for pvp.
How about removing the aggressive so you have to order the drones to attack a target. No orders, no attack. Must be a better way to ruin 'botters' day than screw it up for people actually playing.
If your drone gets killed in under a minute while you ahve full aggro, file a petition. If you have aggro, the NPC are obviously not shooting your drones. If you are about to tell me `well the aggro switched, then stop lying because you didn't lose your drones while you had aggro. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP did this to stop people from running missions and sites AFK with drones. I guess they didn't think about removing the "aggressive" mode.
You might have had full aggro except a few frigates. They will web and kill light drones quickly. What bothers me is there's not even a simulated targeting time. I've had drones get hit instantly when I deployed them. |
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
25
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
I run lvl 4 all the time and my drones are my main damage dealer never have issues if aggroed I just recall wat a few sec and redeploy
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Robert Morningstar wrote:I run lvl 4 all the time and my drones are my main damage dealer never have issues if aggroed I just recall wat a few sec and redeploy
With sentry drones this is possible since you can instantly recall them. I think the OP was referring to drones that have to travel to their target. |
Rengerel en Distel
2023
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Robert Morningstar wrote:I run lvl 4 all the time and my drones are my main damage dealer never have issues if aggroed I just recall wat a few sec and redeploy
With sentry drones this is possible since you can instantly recall them. I think the OP was referring to drones that have to travel to their target.
Well, we've found his problem then.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
224
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Better drone skills.
Better target selecting.
Watch the health bars closer.
Once you have high sp in drones I see no reason why you'd be having these problems. |
Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
370
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's combat drones that suffer the most from drone aggro, sentries are barely affected by it since you pull them in and redploy them in a couple of second to remove aggro from them. This basically means sentries or go home. |
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
36
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Posted - 2013.11.19 01:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:With the NPC AI changes, it might be helpful to think of drones as basically short-range weapons, for targets within, say, blaster range. Hold 'em close, and recalling them when they catch aggro shouldn't be such an issue (provided they don't get webbed down by something like a spider drone).
you're also forgetting the fact they totally gimped the Vexor "family" for running level 4s since they used an AB to speed tank after dropping sentries. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
141
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Posted - 2013.11.19 02:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you are flying a drones boat where drones get extra HP and damage they should last longer and not get insta popped. Non drones boats, yeah you had better be on your toes if they get any aggro at all. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1615
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Posted - 2013.11.19 02:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Marc Callan wrote:With the NPC AI changes, it might be helpful to think of drones as basically short-range weapons, for targets within, say, blaster range. Hold 'em close, and recalling them when they catch aggro shouldn't be such an issue (provided they don't get webbed down by something like a spider drone). you're also forgetting the fact they totally gimped the Vexor "family" for running level 4s since they used an AB to speed tank after dropping sentries.
The Ishtar would disagree with that statement. Often times missions are easier with the new Aggro mechanics. |
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
58
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Posted - 2013.11.19 02:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Clearly you need to rig your ship with Drone Durability Enhancers. |
Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
370
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Posted - 2013.11.19 03:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Marc Callan wrote:With the NPC AI changes, it might be helpful to think of drones as basically short-range weapons, for targets within, say, blaster range. Hold 'em close, and recalling them when they catch aggro shouldn't be such an issue (provided they don't get webbed down by something like a spider drone). you're also forgetting the fact they totally gimped the Vexor "family" for running level 4s since they used an AB to speed tank after dropping sentries.
Orbit your sentries. I use an Ishtar to run ewar-heavy L4 missions and I lose around 1 sentry a month mostly due to not paying attention. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
813
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Posted - 2013.11.19 14:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
The OP has a point.
I have on many occasions had full aggro, deploy drones, instantly they start taking damage (from every npc even 2km away), recall drones, lose 1 drone which is webbed I guess. Deploy drones after being retargetted, instantly start taking damage, over and over. It happens mostly with light drones and light npcs, which obviously makes light drones totally useless in many circumstances.
These days I don't carry light drones for frigs (just warrior II for players), I use Ogres for even elite npc frigates since for some absurd reason I can usually deploy them and go have a cup of coffee.
Why is it absurd, well if the intention was to stop afk'ing with drones you would think they would have applied this 'fix' to affect the drones we use to afk (sentries, heavies), not the bloody drones we use to kill frigs with.
On the Maze now, I warp in, deploy sentries, pop the towers, deploy Ogres, pop the elites, deploy sentries and then I don't have to do anything except wait for the drones to kill everything. If it wasn't for the spawns as the structure is being taken down and the requirement to watch local I could do the Maze completely AFK.
The correct fix for the AFK issue should have been to set all drones to passive and require the operator to manually tell them to attack, not create some bizarre aggro ruleset vs light drones.
Before anyone says I need to train drone skills, I'm a 2003 character with superb drone skills and have been using drones since they were introduced, that'd be at original launch btw. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
361
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:It's combat drones that suffer the most from drone aggro, sentries are barely affected by it since you pull them in and redploy them in a couple of second to remove aggro from them. This basically means sentries or go home.
No, it means don't send drones too far out. I don't use lights beyond 20km, mediums beyond 10km, or heavies beyond 5km. You can't afk in missions anymore, and you can't just sit in one spot and wait for your drones to kill everything. Be active, watch your health bars, and recall as soon as you see the slightest bit of red in the shield bar.
I lived in wormholes for years, I ran missions and ratted with domis since this ai was applied everywhere. The only time I've lost drones to npcs is when I went afk without recalling, or simply wasn't paying attention, and even these situations are extremely rare. Drones are fine. You need to adapt. |
Ole' McDolan
Vastly Intellectual Tall Tax Union
0
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
While running lv4s I noticed that my lights get usually targeted by frigs and other smaller ships, while medium gets targeted by bigger ships. Not always, but usually when I deploy light drones they either get targeted by frigs right away or they dont get targeted at all and I just pop the frigs with them and then take out the larger ships without any worry, because they dont seem to aggro lights at all.
Perhaps there is some correlation between rat's ship size and which drones they like to go after? |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ole' McDolan wrote:While running lv4s I noticed that my lights get usually targeted by frigs and other smaller ships, while medium gets targeted by bigger ships. Not always, but usually when I deploy light drones they either get targeted by frigs right away or they dont get targeted at all and I just pop the frigs with them and then take out the larger ships without any worry, because they dont seem to aggro lights at all.
Perhaps there is some correlation between rat's ship size and which drones they like to go after?
There's supposed to be with the drone aggro changes. Frigates go after light drones. The problem is when you deploy light drones with 10 frigates on the field all will primary one drone. They will kill one of your drones by the time they kill two of the frigate. If you're dumb enough to let them go out past 20 km one isn't coming back. With my Raven I use target painters to kill frigates. If I'm flying a gunship and they get close I have no choice but to send drones out and constantly pull them back one at a time. |
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
25
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Posted - 2013.11.19 20:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
With sentry drones this is possible since you can instantly recall them. I think the OP was referring to drones that have to travel to their target.[/quote]
I use a combination of senturies lights and heavys |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.11.19 21:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
You can use non sentry drones as long as you keep them close. So unless you MWD to the NPC you're using sentry drones to kill everything but frigates. Many frigates will come within 10km so this isn't an issue with them. If I remember right there's a few missions where everything is right on top of you but this isn't the majority. |
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
453
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Posted - 2013.11.19 21:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Did I step into a time warp? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
338
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Posted - 2013.11.19 21:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The OP has a point.
I have on many occasions had full aggro, deploy drones, instantly they start taking damage (from every npc even 2km away), recall drones, lose 1 drone which is webbed I guess. Deploy drones after being retargetted, instantly start taking damage, over and over. It happens mostly with light drones and light npcs, which obviously makes light drones totally useless in many circumstances.
That is the drone aggro bug, and probably not what CCP intended. I've seen it both in the maze, and in military operations complex, and since i don't use lights in MOC, it happens to sentries. It takes about 25 seconds to aggro back up on sentries, and literally happens every 25 seconds, you wind up retracting them during every battleship kill, and given how many battleships need to be killed in MOC, its pretty damn tedious.
Quote:
These days I don't carry light drones for frigs (just warrior II for players), I use Ogres for even elite npc frigates since for some absurd reason I can usually deploy them and go have a cup of coffee.
Why is it absurd, well if the intention was to stop afk'ing with drones you would think they would have applied this 'fix' to affect the drones we use to afk (sentries, heavies), not the bloody drones we use to kill frigs with.
On the Maze now, I warp in, deploy sentries, pop the towers, deploy Ogres, pop the elites, deploy sentries and then I don't have to do anything except wait for the drones to kill everything. If it wasn't for the spawns as the structure is being taken down and the requirement to watch local I could do the Maze completely AFK.
The correct fix for the AFK issue should have been to set all drones to passive and require the operator to manually tell them to attack, not create some bizarre aggro ruleset vs light drones.
people that bot, bot the F key.
Quote:
Before anyone says I need to train drone skills, I'm a 2003 character with superb drone skills and have been using drones since they were introduced, that'd be at original launch btw.
Oh: I should add, there is one cool trick that has saved me a few times when i first started running combat anoms. If you mess up and your tank is failing, you're scrammed and webbed or you need to get range from the frigs if they're waiting at warp in, release your lights and they can act as WCS, the scrambling, webber frigs will usually instantly drop scrams / webs on you and you can warp or AB / MWD away while they savage your lights.
The drone aggro condition is pretty noticeably different, in the drone aggro condition, just sticking any drones in space will get everything but the station on a drone. I had it so bad one time that even sticking wardens out drew full aggro to the wardens (which let me go fetch more mobile drones from the insta aggro killing 1 per frigate kill).
I took a web next time, and had no drone aggro at all. Not a single outbreak - killed the 20 or so scramblers in 1 go without retracting lights. IMO the system does have a broken condition, and it becomes far more readily apparent on the much larger spawns in the complexes than it does in missions. Its also why new players complain about it more, as I wouldn't even notice running a mission, but people who get the triggers wrong and wind up with full stage aggro can get seriously messed up by it.
I might fraps MOCs and mazes till I get the condition again.
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Marsan
Caldari Provisions
134
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Posted - 2013.11.19 22:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
From what I've noticed is the that Elite frigates tend to target light drones a lot more. But honestly dead light drones is just the price of running missions. Keep an eye on their health and replace them every so often. If you think the standard AI is bad you should try the sleeper AI which tends to eat drones like popcorn unless you have 2-3 people running the site. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Thufir Bezluden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.11.20 07:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sorry, I didn't clarify. I have low SP and using cyclone/gnosis for L3 missions. I use combat drones, not sentries. For control, I use a nostromo n50 speedpad -same as when I played EVE from 2004-07 and 2009-10. I can sic drones on a target fast and recall them faster, but not always fast enough.
Fire and Drone Control on Nostromo N50 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
339
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Posted - 2013.11.20 08:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thufir Bezluden wrote:Sorry, I didn't clarify. I have low SP and using cyclone/gnosis for L3 missions. I use combat drones, not sentries. For control, I use a nostromo n50 speedpad -same as when I played EVE from 2004-07 and 2009-10. I can sic drones on a target fast and recall them faster, but not always fast enough. Fire and Drone Control on Nostromo N50
There isn't a lot you can do about that, other than dealing more dps from the gnosis itself and making the gnosis a source of ewar, and recognising that elite cruisers and elite frigates will kill medium and small drones if they can.
If you have medium turrets on the gnosis then they may well do a lot more damage if you are webbing stuff, and you shouldn't send combats out past web range unless you understand the NPCs drone aggro tendencies pretty well.
If say you were using lasers, you would want a couple of heatsinks and a web on it. If say you were using missiles, you would want a couple of ballistic controls and a target painter on it.
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Perton Shil
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2013.11.22 11:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
And I have similar issue - my heavy drones are quite slow. Almost in every case I'm not able to recall them on time, before elite battle-cruisers which spawn in anomalies I'm doing attack them and shoot down at least one. BS-es which are killed last, are orbiting at 33km, and this is a range which drones must travel. I then launch medium drones, and those are fine. But what could be solution for heave drone aggro problem? |
Thufir Bezluden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.11.23 19:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
not a gnosis issue, but thanks for info. |
Dextrome Thorphan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
15
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Perton Shil wrote:And I have similar issue - my heavy drones are quite slow. Almost in every case I'm not able to recall them on time, before elite battle-cruisers which spawn in anomalies I'm doing attack them and shoot down at least one. BS-es which are killed last, are orbiting at 33km, and this is a range which drones must travel. I then launch medium drones, and those are fine. But what could be solution for heave drone aggro problem?
I have a similar issue.. if anybody got some cool strategies, feel free to share ^_^ |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
886
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:IIshira wrote:Robert Morningstar wrote:I run lvl 4 all the time and my drones are my main damage dealer never have issues if aggroed I just recall wat a few sec and redeploy
With sentry drones this is possible since you can instantly recall them. I think the OP was referring to drones that have to travel to their target. Well, we've found his problem then.
it does seem broken that sentry drones are the only useful drones in pve. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
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