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Are Megacorps and Alliances Taking Over The Eve Universe?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:17:00 - [1] Megacorps and regional alliances appear to be gobbling up large pieces of valuable territory and claiming it as their own. This leaves freelancing individuals and independent small corps out in the cold so to speak. What it all boils down to is that Eve is slowly becoming a universe run by megacorps and alliances and not by the community as a whole. I could be wrong but it surely is starting to look that way to me. Feel free to agree or disagree, but please give me a good reason why. Is this what we want? I for one do not want this to happen, but I believe that it is inevitable. *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Iece Quaan	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:18:00 - [2] Taking? Taken. =) --------
SavX	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:27:00 - [3] I agree. Mega corps are starting to take over the Market/Economy/Rare Ore/Systems... But what us small corps have to do, is join together and FIGHT THEM. I say.. All these little forgotted corps, all of us join together and wipe out these mega corps, in one HUGE war. Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:31:00 - [4] Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 17:00:23 Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 15:37:37 Lol.....SavX, man you really hit it on the head man! This is exact response I was hoping to get. Maybe all the freelancers and small corps should form a coalition to make all of the Eve universe free and accessible for everyone! *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Riddari	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:45:00 - [5] Quote: Lol.....SavX, man you really hit it on the head man! This is exact response I was hoping to get. Maybe all the freelancers and small corps should form a coalition to make all of the Eve universe free and accessible for everyone! SavX did hit the nail on the head. One Question Jake Solnich.. "free and accessible for everyone" does that mean the "bad alliances and megacorps" as well having free access to the areas that you now want to take from them? Eve is about power. The only way to take power is by force. Don't complain, just grab a gun and put your ISK and ships to your cause. ¼©¼ a history
SavX	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:48:00 - [6] I mean it, the corp I'm in now are solo miners and most of them including myself have a battleship. And where only 1 small corp. Imagine all of the unknown corps joined together, they would out number Megacorps by hundreads. Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 15:51:48 Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 15:49:08 Ah yes Riddari your right....but I am only one man. However, I am beginning to formulate a plan and this discussion is the first step. Let all the free minded people of Eve come together and find a solution to this problem. P.S. - SavX, I'll be looking you up in game to discuss this further. Maybe we could get this thing started. *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
SavX	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:51:00 - [8] If small corps would join together to fight, I would join.. But I don't have the time or Brain Energy to arrange it... Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
Zoson	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:51:00 - [9] As a solo player, it's not what I want, but it's a natural and inevitable outcome.
Ulstan	Posted - 2003.09.02 15:52:00 - [10] I don't know where this idea that one guy by himself should be able to accomplish everything that hundreds of focused people working together do came from. Sure you should be able to have quite a decent time as a freelancer. Get your own bship. It's not too hard. But you're not going to have as much power as a huge megacorp, and that's just the way it goes.
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:14:00 - [11] Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 16:15:58 And Ulstan why not!? I refuse that idea and challenge that you tell me why. With enough time and effort I tell you I can accomplish what a hundred men could do. I'm not saying I could do it in the same time span however. That's the catch. Point is, if it's up to the megacorps and alliances no single man or small corp will ever achieve what they can because that means more competition for them. Nooo, they don't want more competition because most megacorps and alliances want all the valuable asteroid fields, trade runs to themselves. Their not interested in sharing, all they want is to dominate and oppress freelancers and small corps. I really have no problem with corporations and alliances who make no territorial claims. What I do have a problem with is someone telling me that a region of space is theirs and I can't mine there. It is my belief that all of the Eve universe should be free and accessible to all and not just a select few who happen to belong to a megacorp or an alliance. This is my dream and I believe the dream of every free minded man and woman *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Lliandra	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:23:00 - [12] On the subject of all small corps / freelancers uniting, I can only agree.... I even build website to support such a thing: EVE-Central. Here players (and small corps) can register and get all kinds of cool things in a nice central place. You even get som enice features, such as private forums and in-game sites. The best thing about this is that most small corps don't have the time / manpower to build these themselves. You all go check it out and tell me what you think. Freelancers should sign up for the Freelancers group, that way you are registered on the in-game site (http://evecentral.ractoc.com/ingame) as well. Ractoc aka. Lliandra Site Admin for EVE-Central Lliandra aka. Ractoc Site Admin for EVE-Central
Stue	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:28:00 - [13] This seems quite familiar. Planetarion anyone? This is just a natural process. This game will (prolly) never reset. So this process will go into extremes.
Die Harpie	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:32:00 - [14] Jake, that would be bad for business don't you know. If someone makes a claim to an area and they have the means to back it up, well, it's up to you to sneak past, take it away from them, stay away from it altogether or join them. Laying claim to an area is a perfectly valid tactic and a part of this game, learn to live with it. Why should a MegaCorp find an area of space that is rich in minerals and say to everyone else, "Hey! Found the good stuff! Come and take it out from under us! We don't care about profit at all! We want to be mediocre!" You could go out on your own, but, it doesn't sound like you are much of a risk taker from your post, I could be wrong. You can't always get something for nothing, especially in 0.0. El toro caca, Die Harpie "I don't like food anymore!"
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:39:00 - [15] Die Harpie, I believe the matter is far more complicated than that. I didn't even mention blockading tactics that some well known corporations use. What if I just want to travel through a region of space? Am I expected to pay a toll just because I'm passing through? I think not. I think most people know what I'm refering to when it comes to the aggressive nature of the megacorps and alliances that use these kind of tatics. Need I say more? *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Silinary	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:41:00 - [16] Quote: Edited by: Jake Solnich on 02/09/2003 16:15:58 And Ulstan why not!? I refuse that idea and challenge that you tell me why. With enough time and effort I tell you I can accomplish what a hundred men could do. I'm not saying I could do it in the same time span however. That's the catch. You seem to have it all right here. One person can indeed do what 100 people can do, it just takes 100 times as long. All these megacorps, alliances, whatever can get things done faster and more efficient. You on the other hand alone just take a little slower. You can have what they got, it will just take you time. The only thingy you miss is claiming an entire reginon or 2 or 3 to yourself. Do you really want the hasstle of having to defend an entire region from player pirates? Claiming a region isn't exactly a cake walk and waltzing in and sayign , we own this spot!. There will always be someone to challenge you, to take it away. Will you be strong enough to keep it just you? or would it eb a might bit easier with 99 of your friends? Competition comes and goes... its the way of the market. You have a dream, a good one, and I would indeed like to see your dream be true, but the only way it will be true, is if you have the power to knock all other megacorps and alliances to pieces. With that power, something resemblingyour dream could exist .. . but likly won't, because then, people will think of you as the oppressor, and not them. I also have possible other information you might be intrested in ... contact me with Eve-mail. You can do anything you set your mind to.
Beringe	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:46:00 - [17] Funny that some people are suggesting that in order for the small time loner to have an influence, he must band with other small time loners in order to form a... ...megacorp? Really, a small time loner cannot have military power. That is an oxymoron. But speak softly and carry a big stick, and you may find yourself influencing things on the sly, without actually having a fleet of ships. Some people have already done so. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
Lycan	Posted - 2003.09.02 16:56:00 - [18] Edited by: Lycan on 02/09/2003 16:56:51 well i am feed up with all the regional alliances laying claim to all the land around eve (and most act like pirates). its about some one trys to get the people to rise up and put an stop to this.
Klydor	Posted - 2003.09.02 17:14:00 - [19] Regional alliances will in time destroy themselves. Its the nature of things, alliances are formed, eventually they decide their not big enough or don't like what another alliance is doing and pop there goes an alliance. New ones will spring up to meet the gap, and the circle will continue.
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2003.09.02 17:25:00 - [20] In case you've been blind the last few days and missed the Venal civil war there's a place for you to go, they're still shooting down everyone but they're no longer in control of the situation. Time to take advantage and scavenge. Good luck.
Counter Point	Posted - 2003.09.02 17:47:00 - [21] I agree wholeheartedly. The first step is to punch holes in the veils of secrecy and disinformation that these organizations have pulled over everyone. I'm sure there are many people who think that ethics and fairness are worthy things and are feeling a bit uncomfortable with their corp's or alliances. Speak up about it. This kind of slime and corruption grows best in the dark. I've little knowledge about any organzation but the Fountain Alliance but I've just started a thread about that HERE. Feel free to make comment here or there. Counter Point --- Shall we fall for a lack of reason? It's frightfully possible in the world of tomorrow.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.02 17:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 02/09/2003 17:54:15 Quote: Megacorps and regional alliances appear to be gobbling up large pieces of valuable territory and claiming it as their own. Well, that's the whole point to forming large corporations or extended alliances. This is a surprise to you? Quote: Is this what we want? It is what the corporations and alliances want. Quote: I mean it, the corp I'm in now are solo miners and most of them including myself have a battleship. And where only 1 small corp. Imagine all of the unknown corps joined together, they would out number Megacorps by hundreads. Imagine someone capable of making this happen. Imagine it, because it will only ever exist in your imagination. All these CEOs have dreams of dominating the universe or creating their own megacorporation. They have different plans for doing so, and different ideas about how to run a corp. You think just because it's a "good idea" that they will all band together and form a huge corporations? Think again. Quote: What I do have a problem with is someone telling me that a region of space is theirs and I can't mine there. Aww, what ashame. You choose to play solo, play with the consequences. Those people who have the will, dedication and leadership to put together large corporations can do what they please with that power. The people willing to "follow" get to ride the coattails and enjoy some of the perks. People like you who think you can do it all alone get table scraps. =) Quote: well i am feed up with all the regional alliances laying claim to all the land around eve (and most act like pirates). its about some one trys to get the people to rise up and put an stop to this. Haha. Then what are you going to do? Lay claim to the land yourself? EVE is a multiplayer game. It is DESIGNED so that players who cooperate in large groups will be FAR more successful than those who cannot or will not. You want easy money w/o worrying about the hardships of running a corporation or the "duty" of joining one. Well, tough **** as they say. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Veruna Caseti O.R.E. Syndicate Confederation of Free Stars Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Trianon Starstealer	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:15:00 - [23] What we need to do is get together a group of 20 to 30 BS's and maybe hte same numbe rof cruisers/frigates, and then go and break some blockades...yes there will be loses (if any of the pirate corps have a pair of balls and stand and fight) These people are not used to people ganging up on them, they rely on fear to prevent people from freely exploring and mining the outer ring areas. There must be some small corps willing to help out in this, lets clean out a few of these illegal blockades.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:19:00 - [24] Quote: I agree. Mega corps are starting to take over the Market/Economy/Rare Ore/Systems... But what us small corps have to do, is join together and FIGHT THEM. I say.. All these little forgotted corps, all of us join together and wipe out these mega corps, in one HUGE war. hahah look at your own words ALL... what does that make you then? you can put whatever tag for that "ALL" but then you would be 1 or so... and thus making your MEGA whatever you want to call it... haha you want to be safe and in controlled area? well stay in empire space... BTW isnt the EMPIRE a REALLY REALLY MEGA CORP in a way... but just lets you do whatever the hell you want? besides kill each other??? regardless of how you look at it... someone is always controlling someone... and you either fallow them or you are against them. there is no buts or ifs about it[.] support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Drutort on 02/09/2003 18:28:38 you guys seem to not be happy being small.. but you get what you are pretty much... you are small you hold small area... whatever it might be for short time etc.. your small area might be just to fend for your self... big corp can find for bigger area... alliance can find for a region and so on... empires can hold number of regions and etc... get the picture yet??? BTW why do you need a game to explain this.... why dont you look at were you live IRL... just look at RL and how things are run... then you will see that eve is very similar fashion.... just that the RL world is very established in most parts... and those small areas if they hold of no value are left unclaimed or unpopulated and undefended. Also you might want to go and read up on some HISTORY while your at it. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:31:00 - [26] I've never joined a corp, as the title of lackey doesn't rest well on my shoulders. I may be wrong here on game realities, but in the real world, the little guy can compete with the megacorps because of one factor that is completely ignored by CCP (are you listening devs?) - overhead. This game would be much more balanced if the realities of large corps were accurately reflected in the game. How? 1. Enable the docking fees that are talked about in the manual. That way a ship-building megacorp would have enormous fees associated with housing all the ships they build. It would apply to corps that don't build ships, also, because they'd have to pay for all the docking fees associated with the corp hanger. 2. Tax income should have an associated overhead for banking fees and such. 3. Publicly traded corps in RL have to hire auditors to check their books. This is a service that is expensive. A monthly charge based on revenue would simulate this. 4. Corporations pay taxes in RL. They should pay taxes to factions that exert sovereignty over their offices. Frankly, Eve is almost setup as dream world for corps. No taxes, no overhead, no bureaucracy, none of the usual responsibilities that corps have to bear. Yes, a corporation of 100 people can accomplish more than I can, but not at 100 to 1. More like 75 to 1 at best. Since you are all corporate lackeys, and I am an enlightened FREE MAN, it's more like 1.25 to 1. :) Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.
Die Harpie	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:45:00 - [27] No, you did not mention gate camping and neither did I. You did, however, mention this: Quote: What I do have a problem with is someone telling me that a region of space is theirs and I can't mine there. So, how are they to know that you are just 'passing through'? They can't becuase, as far as they know, you'll lie to them just to get near the good rocks. Vive le poodoo, Die Harpie "I don't like food anymore!"
Styrmir	Posted - 2003.09.02 18:52:00 - [28] Will this not just be another alliance, just like the rest of them? To make an alliance against alliances I can't wait for the aliance to tackle the new one.... Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.02 19:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 02/09/2003 19:12:01 Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 02/09/2003 19:10:26 *Goldar Hektu: Quote:* I've never joined a corp, as the title of lackey doesn't rest well on my shoulders. So join a corporation that doesn't treat its new members like lackeys. There are plenty out there that treat new members as equals, help new players learn the game and become stronger, and generally cooperate in a fun teamwork environment without the feeling of a hierarchy or superiority of the directors/CEO. You have a very narrow view of corporations, perhaps you should try to experience more of what is available to you instead of being so judgemental from the start based on incorrect assumptions. Quote: Frankly, Eve is almost setup as dream world for corps. Well, since you've never even JOINED a corporation let alone run one, you obviously have no idea what's involved in the process of creating and maintaining a successful corporation. The midrange corporations - the MAJORITY of them - are just barely scraping by. They mine their own minerals to produce ships which they must sell at a very small profit in order to compete with other manufacturers. They deal with locating their goods, finding available office space with factories and labs (much harder than most people think it is), training and supplying new members, making up for losing ships to NPC and PC pirates, finding blueprints in order to further the manufacturing power, etc., etc. There is plenty of overhead in EVE, just because it's not direct withdrawals from corporate accounts doesn't mean it's not there. It exists in competition, and time investments. I think it's hilarious that you make such broad generalizations about the role of coporations in EVE when you admit yourself you have never even joined one! Don't speak so fervently about something you obviously know very little about. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Liscia Thierese	Posted - 2003.09.02 19:12:00 - [30] Whoever made the point about alliances being cyclical was spot on. The internecine fighting amongst VA members illustrates how empty these noble, lauded concepts actually are when it's time to kick out the jams and actually put one's resolve to the test. If you would like to contribute to an alliance with more liberal affectations then please investigate this thread on EVE-I.com: Small Corp Alliance I reiterate that perceived ingame problems have ingame solutions.
Andrew Jade	Posted - 2003.09.02 19:28:00 - [31] Edited by: Andrew Jade on 02/09/2003 19:34:07 Yeah as people have said, the fact that mega corps are taking over the EVE universe was intended by CCP. Also as i am part of a 'mega corp', EV has over 200 members, i dont see what people are concerned about. To be a mega corp you have to have a well planned and practiced structure and treat your members well. You cant have 200 members if you treat them badly -Aj- WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
Sc0rpion	Posted - 2003.09.02 20:51:00 - [32] So let me get this straight... Megacorporations in the game are doing exactly what megacorporations do in real life, that is staking thier claims in the market and pushing the competition out of business? Who says the economy is broken? Don't like a company's monopoly? Go break it. Oh, and here's a news flash for you. Regional aliances simply can't maintain thier blockades 23/7. Space is just too big. Yes, they can most certainly shoot your fleet of battleships out of the sky, but they can't stop the occasional freelancer who knows what they are doing. If you are smart about it, maybe you can even make the megacorps YOUR customers. "The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously." -Freidrich Nietzche
Jojin	Posted - 2003.09.02 21:24:00 - [33] Mega corporations may control large portions of the EVE universe, but it isnÆt really hurting of the lone individual players or small corporations. Most often, if you avoid their major areas of concern, they will leave you alone as you may appear as an insignificant. They get taxed as much as the small individuals, so with the exception of broad notoriety (good and bad) they are just a larger version of an individual. In fact it would seem there is a dual culture within the game; large corporations and then small corps and individuals. I find the smaller area to be quite lively. The small individuals and corporations will eventually grow into larger entities if they so choose. To me, being part of the growth is where the fun is at not just joining into larger entity. In the end the large corporations will falter and newer younger organizations will rise in their place. So just have fun playing and consider them part of the background stage rather than direct competition.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.02 21:33:00 - [34] Long story short; if you are too lazy to run a corporation and too****y to join one, then don't expect a similar level of prosperity. It takes dedication and commitment to run a corporation, and a bit of humility and work ethic to give up the "Johnny Superstar" attitude and join one - those who do either are rewarded and they should be. Veruna Caseti* Ishukone
Melonie	Posted - 2003.09.02 22:20:00 - [35] I don't have a crystal ball, but when factions are implemented the people laying claim to the sovereign space of the Guristas, Sansha's Nation and the Serpentis may end up with big problems. I believe the proper way to 'lay' claim to space is to go to an unclaimed region and build your own station there. Maybe CCP won't fix the factions until that is possible.
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.09.02 22:34:00 - [36] This is why I refuse to get a major reputation in EVE. I pilot a Frigate, I keep my crimes small, won't make my presence known and keep to myself. You know what? It works.....because of this, all those "Mega Corps", all those "Uber Groups" don't notice me... I slip by blockades, quarintines and alliances with no problems whatsoever. I slip by un-noticed, un-seen, un-heard....yet I still benefit from all this. The competing Corporations are driving prices lower and lower, too busy waging war on each to notice the small guys, too busy declaring how amazing they are to notice those people min the background slipping by their supposed "invincible alliance". The universe may be in the process of being taken over, but those areas which have been taken over sure as hell ain't being watched.
Fusco T	Posted - 2003.09.02 22:50:00 - [37] So yeah break up alliances/megacorps etc.. Create a feeling of anarchy everywhere. By "liberating" regions the only thing you will accomplish is pirate havens. Why? because for the most part region-wide alliances keep the space safe for large numbers of people. You say you want to keep it open to all. That includes pirate types. Then without organization ie ALLIANCE you have a independants who cannot defend themselves and pirates win because your stated goal is to have nothing but small/indiviuals operating. This makes pirates life much easier. So the only thing I can really glean from the original poster is that he is a pirate and wants to make his job easier by creating more smaller groups that can be vanquished more easily.
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.09.02 22:53:00 - [38] Quote: So yeah break up alliances/megacorps etc.. Create a feeling of anarchy everywhere. By "liberating" regions the only thing you will accomplish is pirate havens. Why? because for the most part region-wide alliances keep the space safe for large numbers of people. You say you want to keep it open to all. That includes pirate types. Then without organization ie ALLIANCE you have a independants who cannot defend themselves and pirates win because your stated goal is to have nothing but small/indiviuals operating. This makes pirates life much easier. So the only thing I can really glean from the original poster is that he is a pirate and wants to make his job easier by creating more smaller groups that can be vanquished more easily. ....although it has to be said, unless you're in a Battleship bristling with guns a lot of these so called "alliances" just belch out of a lot air when it comes to their so-called "defense" of an area.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.02 22:55:00 - [39] You'll never catch me joining a megacorp or an alliance! No sirree. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Uma Kruytls	Posted - 2003.09.02 23:38:00 - [40] Everlasting Vendetta isn't a member of the Stain Alliance?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.02 23:40:00 - [41] Quote: Everlasting Vendetta isn't a member of the Stain Alliance? I was being facetious LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Counter Point	Posted - 2003.09.03 00:07:00 - [42] Quote: Will this not just be another alliance, just like the rest of them? To make an alliance against alliances I can't wait for the aliance to tackle the new one.... Styrmir, you have said the magic words. The words fortold of old...(melodramatic enough?) The simple fact is that any organization that truly wants to correct the problem instead of eventually becoming the problem must have some very serious checks and balances built in from the beginning (and it will seem very silly to go to those lengths against your friends and compatriots) and even more that kick in when it's even remotely successful. "Money is the root of all evil." And old statement that scratches the truth. POWER is the real root of corruption. It's a soul destroying corrosive that can only be checked by those self same checks and balances. I choose to believe that every alliance started with a desire to do good. But power is a powerful tonic, a heady wine, the scent of desire. And under it's influence the most powerful parts of our psyche come to the fore. Self delusion. Almost every dictator that is or was on the planet started out believing they were doing good. Many of them believed it even while the masses bemoaned their fate. Some believed it to the end and were gone in confusion not knowing why they had been turned on. Belief is nice. Proof is better. Feel free to believe as you wish but if proof isn't freely forthcoming don't say you weren't warned. Only work with those you trust. Do the paperwork like your dealing with an archenemy. Because you very well may be. Your setting things up to survive your tenure. And you don't know who will replace your replacement so take heed in the design. Last but not least: Never forget that the most dangerous person in the world is he who does it for your own good. ...Which is what all here are preparing to do... Counter Point --- Shall we fall for a lack of reason? It's frightfully possible in the world of tomorrow.
Counter Point	Posted - 2003.09.03 00:18:00 - [43] Quote: Also as i am part of a 'mega corp', EV has over 200 members, i dont see what people are concerned about. To be a mega corp you have to have a well planned and practiced structure and treat your members well. You cant have 200 members if you treat them badly But you can have 200 happy members while making life miserable for 1000 others. I find it very saddening that you don't see what others are concerned about. Does the fact that so many others are concerned not make you wonder why your blind in this direction? The simple fact that so many are concerned should tell you there's some kind of problem. <laugh> Perhaps you've been blinded by success or perhaps by the glare of the pile of isk's... The sad thing is: Over all the world, time after time, pulling people up with you eventually makes everyone greater that is possible for one who walks on others. It's just quicker to get up early by climbing on others. Counter Point --- Shall we fall for a lack of reason? It's frightfully possible in the world of tomorrow.
Shadow Walker	Posted - 2003.09.03 00:18:00 - [44] The alliances are mostly made up by small corps with 10-30 members.
Counter Point	Posted - 2003.09.03 00:21:00 - [45] Quote: Long story short; if you are too lazy to run a corporation and too****y to join one, then don't expect a similar level of prosperity. It takes dedication and commitment to run a corporation, and a bit of humility and work ethic to give up the "Johnny Superstar" attitude and join one - those who do either are rewarded and they should be. No argument at all. But I would like to add that many don't want that level of prosperity. They want to accomplish things without being the doormat for others. Is that so terrible a desire? Counter Point* --- Shall we fall for a lack of reason? It's frightfully possible in the world of tomorrow.
Fang	Posted - 2003.09.03 00:31:00 - [46] There is one alliance that works hard to keep space OPEN FOR ALL. Its called CFS and operates in the Khanid region. All players welcome excluding known pirate corps and PKers. It has a regular navy, committed to keeping the bad guys at bay. Regular healthy trade with the 40+ corps who are members. Combined mining ops, escort services and general revelry .There is no joining fees or special requirements other than contributing to the naval effort to keep Khanid FREE for all. In fact its damned good fun ! Try it if you frustrated by the Evil Megacorps. Fang
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2003.09.03 02:02:00 - [47] Veruna Caseti: ****************** The midrange corporations - the MAJORITY of them - are just barely scraping by. They mine their own minerals to produce ships which they must sell at a very small profit in order to compete with other manufacturers. They deal with locating their goods, finding available office space with factories and labs (much harder than most people think it is), training and supplying new members, making up for losing ships to NPC and PC pirates, finding blueprints in order to further the manufacturing power, etc., etc. **************** What makes you think independents don't have the same problems? I myself spent the better part of an evening hunting for enough available research labs to fully utilize my skills. That doesn't even mention the time I spent looking for reasonably priced BPs because they had been bought up in three regions around me, to be resold at 10 times their original price. Independent business people in this game run into the very same problems that corps do as far as competition. But I digress. Funny, you meant this as an argument, but you are actually making my point for me. The realities of competition are not overhead, it's simply competition. The real point here is that if corps had realistic overhead, the mega corps would have a tougher time selling their items at such ridiculous prices, becuase they would have to PAY BILLS. That's the meaning of overhead. In the real world, large corps are often slow to move simply because of overhead. When you actually have to worry that you may go out of business, or lose your hangar space, or labs and factories, it becomes much tougher to sell at ridiculously low prices. **************** Long story short; if you are too lazy to run a corporation and too*y to join one, then don't expect a similar level of prosperity. **************** I put a lot of effort into making my char's business profitable, and I don't make hauling slaves out of n00bs to get the job done.*y? Yeah, that comment falls very flat considering how many alt recruiters I've seen come into the starter corps and local channels telling players how they'll never get anywhere on their own. It's especially funny when they start mouthing off to people who have earned cruisers and battleships on their own to "call me in a year when you BS." And maybe I should be*y. I've earned everything I have in game on my own, with no little hauling lackeys or security monkeys doing my work for me. You try mining kernite in .6 while simultaneously fighting off npc pirates and scaring off the small corps who try to strip mine the area out from under you. And then you get to haul the ore in yourself, while again fighting off npcs and pcs. I've earned the right to be***y. Nawww, you wouldn't have what it takes. Your too busy crying about having to find research and factory space. You ought to create an alt from the University of Caille (instead of making a recruiter monkey do it), and meet the kind of players you are calling lazy. I know of one player in there that has a battleship sitting around waiting for her to get her skills up in order to use it. I know several others that making isk hand-over-fist, on their own. Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.03 04:59:00 - [48] Quote: I know of one player in there that has a battleship sitting around waiting for her to get her skills up in order to use it. I know several others that making isk hand-over-fist, on their own. Hmm, wasn't the original intent of this post to complain that it wasn't possible for solo players to make a living on their own in EVE? Now you're here bragging about how you and many others have done just that? Seems like you and I agree - EVE is just fine the way it is. Quote: You try mining kernite in .6 while simultaneously fighting off npc pirates and scaring off the small corps who try to strip mine the area out from under you. And then you get to haul the ore in yourself, while again fighting off npcs and pcs. Hmm, let me check my list of "things I want to do." Hmm, nope that's not on it. I'm very proud of you, really I am. But I would much rather do exactly what I did - join a midrange corporation which treats its members BETTER than fairly and which is part of a growing alliance of like-minded players. I play multiplayer games for the MULTIPLAYER aspect, you see. I like to cooperate with people, not just "show off" and "brag" to them about what I can do. Frankly, I'm not impressed by anything you can do on your own. All it takes is training up some skills and pointing and clicking to do that. Working well with a team and successfully within a corporation actually requires the ability to work well with REAL people. This is a skill that's not simply acquired with the click of a mouse. Quote: When you actually have to worry that you may go out of business, or lose your hangar space, or labs and factories, it becomes much tougher to sell at ridiculously low prices. Once again if you knew anything about corporations, you would know that they DO worry about these things. Just having a group of players and an office in station doesn't guarantee you success I'm afraid. Gathering the minerals necessary for largescale production, and finding a clientbase capable of generating enough profit to make it worth your hours and hours of effort is much more difficult than just flying out on your own and blasting some NPC pirates. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
DJvGalen	Posted - 2003.09.03 05:11:00 - [49] Quote: I agree. Mega corps are starting to take over the Market/Economy/Rare Ore/Systems... But what us small corps have to do, is join together and FIGHT THEM. I say.. All these little forgotted corps, all of us join together and wipe out these mega corps, in one HUGE war. Didn't you try and recruit me today, I believe I declined when you mentioned you were joining the Venal Alliance. ------------------------------------------------ CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon.
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.03 06:46:00 - [50] Edited by: Jake Solnich on 03/09/2003 06:48:02 Lot's of great posts with good points on both sides. Thanks alot guys. By the way, let me remind everyone that this post is in good nature and I am only playing the game as I see it. I'm not complaining about how the game is designed nor do I believe that others have an unfair advantage. As someone said earlier there appears to be two developing cultures in the Eve. Those that want Eve to be a free universe for all to enjoy and those that want to lay claim to areas of space and restrict passage or access to it. I believe both sides have many valid points and reasons for what they believe in. My arguement does not lie with who is right or who is wrong. The point I'm making is about a belief or an idea based on the dream of making the Eve universe free and accessible for everyone. Sure this won't be easy and alot of people may not like this idea, but nobody said that freedom or democracy would be easy to attain. There will always be those against these ideas of freedom and democracy, but I for one will fight against this tyranny. Will you fight for your freedom as well or will you allow these oppressive dictators to take it away from you and turn you into a slave *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Durandal	Posted - 2003.09.03 10:00:00 - [51] Well as one of my fellow country men said (in RL and not in the movie.."For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any conditions submit to the domination of the (English)Editalliances. It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life." Hmmm, now just to get our member numbers up to one hundred "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2003.09.03 18:55:00 - [52] Veruna Caseti: quote: --------------------------------------------- Hmm, wasn't the original intent of this post to complain that it wasn't possible for solo players to make a living on their own in EVE? --------------------------------------------- Uhh, yeah, that was the original gist. It wasn't the gist of my comment. I never said it wasn't possible for an individual to succeed, I said the game wasn't balanced. If you are going to quote and reply to my comments, you should stick to my comments, not try to miscontrue them as something else simply becuase you can't make a point. quote: ----------------------------------------------- Seems like you and I agree - EVE is just fine the way it is. ----------------------------------------------- Uhh, no. Your misinterpretations of my remarks are not equivalent to my remarks. Eve is not fine the way it is. I've moved down to mining scordite in safe systems, because the market for higher value minerals is so depressed that mining kernite or omber is no longer worth the effort. This is a direct result of strip mining by corps. Independents would be doing much better if corps weren't constantly screwing up the markets. If there was realistic overhead, this wouldn't happen nearly so often. You continually miss the point here. Realistic overhead would affect everyone, but have more effect on large corps, as they would bear a much bigger burden, and would have a tougher time depressing the markets. It would actually help mid-range and small corps, as well as individuals, by leveling the playing field. And the people I am talking about aren't your average players. They are people with above average intelligence, knowledge and drive - in-game and out. They've succeeded because of their personal qualities, not their ability to fleece the ignorant. quote: ------------------------------ Frankly, I'm not impressed by anything you can do on your own. All it takes is training up some skills and pointing and clicking to do that. Working well with a team and successfully within a corporation actually requires the ability to work well with REAL people. This is a skill that's not simply acquired with the click of a mouse. ------------------------------ Who said I never worked with others? I've gang mined with friends. I've tried to organize rescue ops for fellow independents that were trapped by m0o (unfortunately, we were too badly outgunned). I've provided more help to n00bs in the starter corp channel than I've received in the help channel. Unfortunately, the amount of help I've provided doesn't compare to the help and generosity I've received in that same channel. I wish it did, so I try to improve that ratio in favor of new players every time I play. If you want to tell me I don't have real people skills, you ought to consider how much problem you've had understanding my comments and their implications before casting stones. Or perhaps you have been willfully miscontruing my comments. Either way, my argument still stands. quote: ---------------------------- Once again if you knew anything about corporations, you would know that they DO worry about these things. Just having a group of players and an office in station doesn't guarantee you success I'm afraid. Gathering the minerals necessary for largescale production, and finding a clientbase capable of generating enough profit to make it worth your hours and hours of effort is much more difficult than just flying out on your own and blasting some NPC pirates. -------------------------- Okay, hmm, again you are either misreading or purposely miscontruing my comments. Failing to become a megacorp is not the same as failing. Perhaps you'd like to explain EXACTLY how you could lose your free hangar space? Are you actually worried about losing lab space? If your corp can't come up with 1000 isk per lab, it has no future already. Granted, factory rental is a little more realistic in price, which is precisely why it is often available, even on the highway, so not much danger there. There is one thing I don't know - do you actually have to pay rent on your offices? If so, then that is perhaps realistic, depending on the expense. If not, your argument falls completely flat. Truth is, your time has absolutely no value whatsoever, other than the value you and others place on it. Sounds to me like you expect to get fabulously rich with little effort. It's hillarious that you keep trying to say that I don't know anything about corps. I've worked for several large corps in RL. I hear the same lame arguments and unfulfillable promises from you and others that I have heard from RL MBAs. Like the guy I met in local who tried to recruit me. I asked how the 7.5% tax would benefit me, what I would get in return for giving up my money. He just kept making vague statements about "you can accomplish more in a group." I sure can, but I can do that without paying a tax, or having to play someone else' Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.03 18:58:00 - [53] Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 03/09/2003 19:01:06 Quote: It's hillarious that you keep trying to say that I don't know anything about corps. I've worked for several large corps in RL. Yah well these aren't real life corporations. If we wanted the hassels and worries of a real corporation, we would go start one instead of playing a game. Quote: Truth is, your time has absolutely no value whatsoever, other than the value you and others place on it. That's an opinion. Truth be told many people in this world believe time and labor are the ONLY truly valuable things - everything else is just a system of controlling said time and labor. Quote: Perhaps you'd like to explain EXACTLY how you could lose your free hangar space? Perhaps you could explain why a corporation has to LOSE it's hangar space? If the space is not being used to generate profit for the corporation or its members, that corp has already failed. Once again, just having the factory and labs does not guarantee success - you have to use them successfully. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Winterblink	Posted - 2003.09.03 19:29:00 - [54] Just looking at the original intent of this thread... if you're ****ed that a bunch of big corps have laid claim to sectors of space there's a couple ways of looking at it. 1. There's a LOT of star systems out there. Claim your own space. 2. Beat the crap out of that corp and stake your OWN claim to those areas. Can't do it with yourself and a few of your buddies in frigates? Grow stronger. Get more members. Ally your corp with others and WORK TOGETHER. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.09.03 21:33:00 - [55] Edited by: The Wretch on 03/09/2003 21:35:39 Alliances will dominate all non empire space in the long run imo. Unless the Jovians come into an area and take it over (next episode?). On a side note with regards to mega corps. Take their registered members divide it by 3. That is close to the active players minus alts. In most all cases every mega corp I have encountered appears close to this. Divide by 5 for the number of ppl in that corp who represent its driving force (the glue that holds them together). I don't see any mega corp controlling a region by themselves alone. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
QBall	Posted - 2003.09.03 21:43:00 - [56] Looks at Wretch in an odd fasion... and asks, "Are we a Mega Corp?" -------- "OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!" -QBall And QQ is QQ
Lliandra	Posted - 2003.09.04 12:10:00 - [57] Ok, I just finished the ingame site for EVE-Central, I put the news section on there as well. I still need News Agents though. Anyone who can bring me regular news updates about the big megacorps / alliances which we are talking about here can contact me about this and I will make him / her a news agent for EVE-Central, so He / can post regular news masseges there. Since it's possible to reply ti the news items, it would also make a great location for discussions like this. Lliandra aka. Ractoc Site Admin for EVE-Central
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2003.09.04 18:11:00 - [58] Veruna: I quit, as it's blatantly obvious that when I use a paragraph to communicate an idea, you'll take out only a sentence to pick apart. Hmmm, just like most RL MBAs in RL corporations. Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.
SavX	Posted - 2003.09.04 18:27:00 - [59] Quote: Quote: I agree. Mega corps are starting to take over the Market/Economy/Rare Ore/Systems... But what us small corps have to do, is join together and FIGHT THEM. I say.. All these little forgotted corps, all of us join together and wipe out these mega corps, in one HUGE war. Didn't you try and recruit me today, I believe I declined when you mentioned you were joining the Venal Alliance. Didn;t you try to recruit me today..??? I think you got it the wrong way around. And I don't see what that has got to do with my comments >_< Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
Rase	Posted - 2003.09.05 21:14:00 - [60] Im a truly amazed at the lack of knowledge displayed by the dozens in this thread. Im not a pirate/pk'r or member of a megacorp...my corp has 12. However, you all have to realise that the DEVELOPERS intent of this game is total domination Did you get that? TOTAL DOMINATION...the GOAL OF EVE ACCORDING TO THE PROGRAMMERS is TO RULE THE UNIVERSE however one wants to....whether alone or with a team. If you attempt to undo the very purpose of the game in the game....you are bring naive if not childish. Get on board with the programmers vision for this game or go play pokemon or candyland.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.09.05 22:02:00 - [61] Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 05/09/2003 22:04:29 Quote: However, you all have to realise that the DEVELOPERS intent of this game is total domination Did you get that? TOTAL DOMINATION...the GOAL OF EVE ACCORDING TO THE PROGRAMMERS is TO RULE THE UNIVERSE however one wants to....whether alone or with a team. If you attempt to undo the very purpose of the game in the game....you are bring naive if not childish. While I agree with you that this game is about domination, and hence a natural progression in the game is alliances and larger corporations gaining seats of power, you are missing the point of the original poster's complaint: Even in a game about total domination, balance must be maintained. If 2-3 single corporations, or a few large alliances dominate the entire universe, then where is the enjoyment for smaller upstart corporations or freelance pilots? Essentially if new players don't have a chance to establish a foothold in the universe due to OVER dominance, the game quickly loses it's ability to attract new players and hence old players quickly lose the ability to have a lot of fun. While I'm not suggesting that I believe this is EVE's fate (I trust the programmers to maintain a balance in the universe, one way or another), it IS a valid concern and shouldn't just be dismissed by saying: Quote: Get on board with the programmers vision for this game or go play pokemon or candyland. The game is about the STRUGGLE for total domination - to maintain the spirit of the game this STRUGGLE must go on. In other words, we all need to be working towards total domination, but nobody should ever be able to achieve it. If they do, EVE will die quickly. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb	Posted - 2003.09.05 23:17:00 - [62] Go Watch the new American movie "Open Range" It's about cattle grazing in the American old west and how an evil rancher and his gang attacks and prevents a cowboy and his workers from grazing on land that has always been free and open. The bad guy kills some of the good guys but in the end the good guy kills the bad guy... but what they failed to mention is that 50yrs later the land gets bought from the state and sold to a developer who builds houses, a car dealership and a mini-mall. So as you can see history is repeating itself in EVE. So don't be suprised if cookie cutter space stations full of fat over-weight space suburbanites spring up in the Venal Region in the next few months... I Don't see anybody controlling the space I roam around in... If some badass group of corps wants to control the turf I'm on then fine... Really doesn't matter though. When I come to that bridge i'll either cross it or blow it the hell up. Posting for Numbnutz
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.09.05 23:20:00 - [63] As I already said, these people say they "control" an area....but, from my experience, it's nothing but hot air and ego stroking. Hell, the only people I know to actively persue me for defying them are a couple of EVER members, I came to a little mutual agreement with them that, until my ship is destroyed or my character is killed, I won't leave the Hodrold system....after all, I'd rather be seen as an Ore Thief with some degree of courage rather than another spineless, smack-talking prat.
Rase	Posted - 2003.09.06 00:22:00 - [64] Veruna...First I'd like to say that you are HOT as balls. Second...It seems you overlooked the whole security system paradigm that CCP used in each system. You said that having megacorps is a natural progression that it limits noobs from gaining a foothold. Obviously that is what the higher sec systems are for. The only areas in the game that can really truly be dominated/enforced is .0-.2...But that leaves an abundance of systems to "gain a foothold" in safety and even slowly transition to lower secuirty. I guess that is why I would dismiss the assertion that its "not fair" or "imbalanced" The very nature of the security systems is impeccable balance. if a person or group of people can manage to not only start a massive corp, but also MAINTAIN order and structure....then they deserve to use that sheer number of people to take over 0.0-0.2. Afterall...the US did it with oil in Iraq...might makes right if your Pres Bush, or a player in eve...especially in a game. Whats the different with Bistot in Fountain? Besides...if a freelancer REALLY wants to get bistot in a blockaded region they can...stay up all night...immediatley after reboot set up warp bookmarks then go in whenever you want and fly right past the blockades....so in light of all this i dont see a fuggin leg the orig poster has to stand on beside gettin his jollies off of thinking he has "some great vision"....
Rase	Posted - 2003.09.06 16:12:00 - [65] Veruna?
Leellu Multipass	Posted - 2003.09.06 17:04:00 - [66] My sisters and I have been killing Stain Alliance members for days now, and it is becoming more and more fun. So we will just keep doing it. If you want to know how you can help us, contact me ingame. Stain Alliance will die !!!
SISQO	Posted - 2003.09.06 18:43:00 - [67] Quote: Megacorps and regional alliances appear to be gobbling up large pieces of valuable territory and claiming it as their own. This leaves freelancing individuals and independent small corps out in the cold so to speak. What it all boils down to is that Eve is slowly becoming a universe run by megacorps and alliances and not by the community as a whole. I could be wrong but it surely is starting to look that way to me. Feel free to agree or disagree, but please give me a good reason why. Is this what we want? I for one do not want this to happen, but I believe that it is inevitable. This is how its supposed to be in the game, read the game box and manual. However freelancers and small corps are free to band together and make it otherwise with force. Freelancers and small corps shouldn't really have a problem going through regions if they have good connections, but if you don't fighting OR getting connections is the way to go.
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.09.06 19:16:00 - [68] The alliances locking up regions are far worse than pirates and griefers, imho. All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2003.09.07 07:52:00 - [69] veruna: Good post and point. Perhaps we are a bit closer in agreement than i had thought, just disagree over the role of independents. note to self - take Veruna Caseti off do-not-trade list, but leave O.R.E Syndicate on, as they may stand in the way of total dominance Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.

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