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Tiven loves Tansien
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
409
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yea, what's going on |
Abrazzar
273
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm collecting. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
thoth rothschild
First Aid Emergency Service
16
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
incursion inflation |
Hwong Jian
SniggWaffe
1
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
I haven't checked them recently, but I'm going to go with an educated guess based on the fact that EVE's economy is a free market:
The plex prices are fluctuating based on supply and demand in an ever-changing and fluid market. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
15
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd say the Buddy Program offer might have something to do with it since they are offering 180 days game time for 3 plex on the new character. So basically, supply and demand. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
114
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
thoth rothschild wrote:incursion inflation
that's what everyone says, but i don't find it likely. demand for plexes spiked with lots of bittervets going to plex only, then spiked more when lots of people came back. but with the real world economy in the state it is the supply of plex is constrained. Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
72
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Denidil wrote: but with the real world economy in the state it is the supply of plex is constrained.
If supply was constrained then volume would be down. If you look at the market statistics, volume is up more than in the past months, meaning that there is simply more demand.
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stoicfaux
349
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
My personal favorite theory:
Thora Tokila pointed out, err, is rumor-mongering that CCP might be buying up PLEX in order to encourage sales of new PLEX to squeeze more money out of Eve.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
42
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Whats the latest price?
I haven't checked in a few days and I have a few to offload once it hits 600-700 mil. |
Angel Lust
Vikinghall
11
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
I guess there is a new... large group of players.... with a lot of isk... with nothing to use isk on anymore.... buying plex for their alts instead.... ?
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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
116
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Denidil wrote: but with the real world economy in the state it is the supply of plex is constrained.
If supply was constrained then volume would be down. If you look at the market statistics, volume is up more than in the past months, meaning that there is simply more demand. This is good news for CCP since high PLEX prices makes purchasing PLEX for real money more attractive. It's bad news for those (like me) who fund their multiple accounts with PLEX because either we have to play more/work harder to fund our accounts, or switch back to paying for (some of) them.
um... you can get more volume without an increase in supply.
in that situation the increased volume is chipping away at build up supply.
and when that happens price goes up. Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
72
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Posted - 2011.11.04 17:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Denidil wrote:
um... you can get more volume without an increase in supply.
in that situation the increased volume is chipping away at build up supply.
and when that happens price goes up.
And where, pray tell, does this "increased volume" that is chipping away at built up supply come from? Oh. Demand. Thanks for proving my point for me.
Volume is a function of demand, not supply. Why? Because absolutely no one is forced to buy PLEX. Since volume measures completed transactions, an increase in volume means that more people are willing to buy PLEX, despite the higher prices. If more people are willing to buy, this means there is more DEMAND. The supply side is irrelevant, supply will only determine how much the price changes in this demand market, not the volume of completed transactions.
If there was an over-supply and people were selling PLEX to all the bids out there, we would have increased volume too. But the price of PLEX would be moving down, not up, as people realize they can get away with buying PLEX for cheaper prices due to increased demand of - ISK. |
Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
42
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am wondering about Incursions and the way they are farmed. If the fact that its an Isk printing machine is currently driving the prices of plex up. Since people are making so much isk they will have no reason not to pay for your their account with plex. This could be the start of an inflation period in EVE.
Is there anywhere online to be able to pull up market data from the previous months? I am specifically looking from the point that Incursions were implemented up to current date. I would just pull it off of eve but I am at work and I am bored. This will give me something to do.
Edit: found a site not sure how representative it is tho |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
117
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ptraci And where, pray tell, does this "increased volume" that is chipping away at built up supply come from? Oh. Demand. Thanks for proving my point for me. [/quote wrote:
don't try to retcon your argument to be something different then what it was. i didn't prove any damn point for you.
you're a goddamn idiot. i was addressing this statement:
[quote=Ptraci]
If supply was constrained then volume would be down..
which is WRONG - new supply is constrained, existing inventory is being depleted by new demand, thus prices are going up. QED.
Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
73
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Denidil wrote:
existing inventory is being depleted by new demand, thus prices are going up. QED.
Here we go again. "New demand" is synonymous with "increased demand". Jeez if you don't understand economics read a book and stop pretending you know how to argue about it. You have once again proven my point.
If supply was constrained (ie there are less units available for sale), then volume cannot be anything but down. You can't buy what doesn't exist. The universe is best examined at its extremes. Make an extreme case and work it through. There are only 10 PLEX left in the universe. The price goes up as those PLEX-holders auction them off to the highest bidder, but what happens to the volume? It will never be more than 10.
The increased volume means more transactions are happening. The increasing prices means that the transactions consist of buyers chasing the sales price and being willing to pay more for PLEX.
Whatever, I only trade for a living.
Love,
Ptraci |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
159
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:My personal favorite theory: Thora Tokila pointed out, err, is rumor-mongering that CCP might be buying up PLEX in order to encourage sales of new PLEX to squeeze more money out of Eve. Just a theory...
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Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
117
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Denidil wrote:
existing inventory is being depleted by new demand, thus prices are going up. QED.
Here we go again. "New demand" is synonymous with "increased demand". Jeez if you don't understand economics read a book and stop pretending you know how to argue about it. You have once again proven my point. If supply was constrained (ie there are less units available for sale), then volume cannot be anything but down. You can't buy what doesn't exist. The universe is best examined at its extremes. Make an extreme case and work it through. There are only 10 PLEX left in the universe. The price goes up as those PLEX-holders auction them off to the highest bidder, but what happens to the volume? It will never be more than 10. Love, Ptraci
you claimed that volume would be down if supply was constrained, which is wrong in the case of only NEW supply being constrained, which is what i was talking about. your pathetic attempts to evade simply admitting that you made an incorrect statement are ******* pathetic. Anyone who is blue to DRF are cowards and have failed Eve.
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
73
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:stoicfaux wrote:My personal favorite theory: Thora Tokila pointed out, err, is rumor-mongering that CCP might be buying up PLEX in order to encourage sales of new PLEX to squeeze more money out of Eve. Just a theory...
If CCP were buying PLEX - which is entirely possible, it means that CCP would have to create ISK in order to buy this PLEX, since PLEX is sold for ISK. If CCP was creating ISK there would be generalized inflation in EVE, not just inflation of PLEX prices. I don't know, are prices going up for everything in EVE? I mean, apart from the obvious Blue Ice and its derivatives. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
142
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
IF CCP were buying PLEX that'd be pretty nasty! Worse than the T20 bullshit, I really doubt it.
You do have the idiot around here who says it is to purposely drive out isk sellers or such nonsense, you can find the post if you search, but you're better off not looking. Imagine playing Donkey Kong where every barrel looks like it hits you. Would you rather I fix the barrels or Kong's shadow?
Welcome to Eve Online where lasers are dumber than barrels! |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
73
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Denidil wrote:
you claimed that volume would be down if supply was constrained, which is wrong in the case of only NEW supply being constrained, which is what i was talking about. your pathetic attempts to evade simply admitting that you made an incorrect statement are ******* pathetic.
Of course volume would be down if there's a supply bottleneck. You can't sell what you don't have.
As for "new supply" I don't know what you mean. Are you saying that all the PLEX that is left on the market is PLEX that has been sitting for sale for years, and no one is buying new PLEX from CCP? Then why is more PLEX being sold this week than last week? Surely less people would want to buy this very expensive, older PLEX. It's not like it's Scotch and it gets better with age.
You are going very far to support a "theory" that CCP for some reason can't sell PLEX to people anymore, and this theory only has your word as evidence. The facts show that for the past few weeks, more people have been buying PLEX in the EVE market (where we can see the volume numbers) than ever before. CCP is probably still selling the same amount of PLEX, leaving supply relatively unchanged. Therefore the price moves up. |
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
272
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jooce McNasty wrote: Is there anywhere online to be able to pull up market data from the previous months? I am specifically looking from the point that Incursions were implemented up to current date. I would just pull it off of eve but I am at work and I am bored. This will give me something to do.
Edit: found a site not sure how representative it is tho
Eve-MarketData, Eve-Central, EVEMarketeer...
http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=29668®ion_id=-2&type=history
Incursions started Nov/Dec of 2010 (January?). |
Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
42
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Jooce McNasty wrote: Is there anywhere online to be able to pull up market data from the previous months? I am specifically looking from the point that Incursions were implemented up to current date. I would just pull it off of eve but I am at work and I am bored. This will give me something to do.
Edit: found a site not sure how representative it is tho
Eve-MarketData, Eve-Central, EVEMarketeer... http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=29668®ion_id=-2&type=historyIncursions started Nov/Dec of 2010 (January?).
Ya I pulled up market data on PLEX on EVE market. There was some funny info when looking at volumes traded that's why I was questioning the accuracy of it.
It also might have been my browser.
I will look more into it at home.
I am trying to compile of list some items that would be affected by inflation first. I am thinking some of the more common Items but then if they are common and there is high volume there is usually a larger percentage of people producing these items giving a stable market.
I am far from an economist so this is all speculation by someone who is bored.
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Selinate
78
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
I dunno what's happening with plex prices, but I know when prices fall back down, I'll be the first to start buying them up this time.... |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Welcome to the free capitalist market. PLEX prices are high because they can be. There is nothing to stop them from an ever increase in price, and nothing to stop them from coming into circulation. The price isn't going to come down, don't kid yourselves in this matter. As it's been stated over and over -supply and demand. He who controls the supply sets the price. As the demand for this commodity rises, so does the price. it's nothing shady. it's nothing scammy. it just is. ~The prophecy comes true. |
stoicfaux
349
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ptraci wrote: If CCP were buying PLEX - which is entirely possible, it means that CCP would have to create ISK in order to buy this PLEX, since PLEX is sold for ISK. If CCP was creating ISK there would be generalized inflation in EVE, not just inflation of PLEX prices. I don't know, are prices going up for everything in EVE? I mean, apart from the obvious Blue Ice and its derivatives.
If CCP were Evil enough to buy PLEX, then, as gods of the sandbox, CCP's Evil could know no bounds. An Evil CCP has perfect market knowledge and the ability to produce anything at zero cost, which means we would need to assume that an Evil CCP would be willing to cover their tracks via other unethical manipulations of the sandbox. Evil CCP could use mineral sell orders (with minerals created from the ether) to balance isk injections from PLEX buy orders.
CCP could be using identity theft to drain isk from players. Eve lost a bunch of subs recently. If you lose a lot of accounts, then the economy can shrink/suffer from the reduced player market interaction. CCP knows the rates at which those accounts accumulated assets and spent isk in the economy, thus CCP could create NPC accounts/bots that follow spending behaviors similar to the formerly active accounts. This preserves the size of the economy while giving CCP the opportunity have these NPC accounts act as enormous sinks.
Or CCP has a marketing/financial trader use CCP's omniscience to drain isk from the economy via conventional means.
Or CCP could engage in RTM where CCP pays RL cash for isk. This "legal" RTM would allow CCP to pull isk out of the economy. The special player gets a legal, safe bounty of say $5 for every 450M isk they collect. That 450M isk sink means that CCP can put another PLEX buy order on the market. Obviously , the $5 bounty would need to be covered by real PLEX sales and would require increased PLEX sales (due to the increased isk value of PLEX) to be worthwhile.
Or maybe Incursion LP stores (or other sinks) have been taking more isk out of the economy than anyone expects.
tl;dr - Use name brand tinfoil. The generic stuff doesn't work.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Selinate
78
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:Welcome to the free capitalist market. PLEX prices are high because they can be. There is nothing to stop them from an ever increase in price, and nothing to stop them from coming into circulation. The price isn't going to come down, don't kid yourselves in this matter. As it's been stated over and over -supply and demand. He who controls the supply sets the price. As the demand for this commodity rises, so does the price. it's nothing shady. it's nothing scammy. it just is.
Market history disagrees with you. It has gone up and down with an overall upward trend, hence it will definitely drop at some point. How much is up for debate (it won't be a miniscule drop, though). |
Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
42
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Selinate wrote:I dunno what's happening with plex prices, but I know when prices fall back down, I'll be the first to start buying them up this time....
Buy them now because they won't go down.
Incursions won't be nerf'd any time soon, L4 mission runners are still going strong. Isk is going to keep flowing into the market and everything is going to get more expensive. But if everyone has more Isk then is it really more expensive? |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
97
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Posted - 2011.11.04 21:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jooce McNasty wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Jooce McNasty wrote: Is there anywhere online to be able to pull up market data from the previous months? I am specifically looking from the point that Incursions were implemented up to current date. I would just pull it off of eve but I am at work and I am bored. This will give me something to do.
Edit: found a site not sure how representative it is tho
Eve-MarketData, Eve-Central, EVEMarketeer... http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=29668®ion_id=-2&type=historyIncursions started Nov/Dec of 2010 (January?). Ya I pulled up market data on PLEX on EVE market. There was some funny info when looking at volumes traded that's why I was questioning the accuracy of it. It also might have been my browser. I will look more into it at home. I am trying to compile of list some items that would be affected by inflation first. I am thinking some of the more common Items but then if they are common and there is high volume there is usually a larger percentage of people producing these items giving a stable market. I am far from an economist so this is all speculation by someone who is bored.
Hi! In the interest of finding out if incursions really are at fault here I have provided you with a link about the first dates where we began really "farming" the incursions for longer period of times.
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1495536
So 12th of April 2011 and on going much more ISK was generated in incursions.
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
42
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Posted - 2011.11.04 22:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Jooce McNasty wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Jooce McNasty wrote: Is there anywhere online to be able to pull up market data from the previous months? I am specifically looking from the point that Incursions were implemented up to current date. I would just pull it off of eve but I am at work and I am bored. This will give me something to do.
Edit: found a site not sure how representative it is tho
Eve-MarketData, Eve-Central, EVEMarketeer... http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=29668®ion_id=-2&type=historyIncursions started Nov/Dec of 2010 (January?). Ya I pulled up market data on PLEX on EVE market. There was some funny info when looking at volumes traded that's why I was questioning the accuracy of it. It also might have been my browser. I will look more into it at home. I am trying to compile of list some items that would be affected by inflation first. I am thinking some of the more common Items but then if they are common and there is high volume there is usually a larger percentage of people producing these items giving a stable market. I am far from an economist so this is all speculation by someone who is bored. Hi! In the interest of finding out if incursions really are at fault here I have provided you with a link about the first dates where we began really "farming" the incursions for longer period of times. http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1495536So 12th of April 2011 and on going much more ISK was generated in incursions.
TY I will look into this more, this gives me a date to work with. I do not want to believe that incursions are the sole issue here. There should be no way that one aspect of this game can affect the price increase we are seeing. I think it could be a combination of things.
Other dates I will be looking up is the Sanctum nerf and when they changed missions to all Q20 agents. These two events are other factors that generate had or do generate large amounts of Isk. I know that I am not counting ratting but the number of players who Ratt are defiantly lower then the number of mission runners. Also I am trying to find a percentage of players that are involved in incursions.
Another factor is you have to look at if there have been any large wars going on. Large fights end up with more destroyed ships and players have less Isk at those points in time. This past year has been quite a large blue nap fest which might have a larger effect on the prices of plex, since the common grunt has more isk to throw around. I realize that wars do not actually destroy Isk they just shift it into the hands of the producers. |
KaarBaak
140
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Posted - 2011.11.04 23:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fat cat players (subs + GTCs) moving on?
Forget the PLEX Market...do some analysis of the GTC sales forum. |
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