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Jason Galente
mishima ryu
75
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stop allowing your brain to be assimilated into this hive mind that is the slavery to Scriptures. Use the Scriptures as a guide, not doctrine: if you can't use your own discretion and think for yourself, how can you be subjective enough to be able to come to a reasonable solution to the problems inherent in the Minmatar-Amarr conflict? More importantly, if you can't allow yourself to use reasonable discretion and compromise on the goals of your Empire for the sake of what you truly believe is right, you will be toyed into doing the biddings of a government that will turn its back on its own people and commit genocide for power and wealth, in the name of the holy and divine. What hogwash. The only thing that is holy and divine is your individual, natural conscience: don't let it be corrupted by the lies of greedy social establishments. That an atrocity can be committed for the greater good is a lie.
Aside from the intellectually mendicant nature of adherence to Scripture, it's also pretty damn inconsistent. Is the acorn somehow better than the tree that it sprouts? Of course not. Let your conscience (and not the agendas, civil doctrine or synthetic ideals that all of the empires plant into the minds of their citizens: this corrupts your true conscience) be your only guide.
Don't do what your government tells you that God tells them is right, do what you think is right.
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Vultirnus
whitlock and associates
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
I pray God forgives your soul's wanderlust. "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria, Paladin's Creed |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
77
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Oh dear. This won't end well. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mr. Galente,
What you fail to understand is that in the minds of most Amarr, the Empire and the Scripture are what's right. It is what the Amarr are, not some compromise that we make.
I also question the use of 'Hive mind', as I think the discussions that go on show that within that framework we have wildly divergent opinions on, well, everything. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
10
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
It is Written. |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
76
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
As a bit of a footnote, this isn't an accusation for those of you who happen to disagree: it's simply an assertion of my own experiences (my views of the Empire in this light are not unique, I share them regarding most established authority) and a reflection of some of the debate I've seen on the Summit lately. It's entirely possible that your conception of right and wrong are similar to those of the Empire at large, as Mr. Thessalonia suggested. I'm not an atheist, by any means: I believe God does exist, but that he exists in each of us as our idea of what is right and wrong, not just what is expedient or profitable. My use of the term 'discretion' was indicative of the cautionary nature of the thread, that one needs to listen to his conscience first, then his government. A man's conscience is his God, is his religion. |
Lucius Vindictus
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
7
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
How good for you that you think you know what is best for us. Funnily Amarrians are often criticized by your kind for having that same attitude towards others. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
12
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
There is no god. If there was a god, it is lost not. The sinful lives of all those who inhabit the universe have seen to that. |
Vultirnus
whitlock and associates
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 16:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:My use of the term 'discretion' was indicative of the cautionary nature of the thread, that one needs to listen to his conscience first, then his government. A man's conscience is his God, is his religion.
You are close to the truth, but it appears to still slip through your grasp. God's divine hand directs our conscience. As an Empire devoted to his will, our government, religion, and conscience are one. "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - The Scriptures, Prophet Kuria, Paladin's Creed |
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan
28
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Heresy. |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
38
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Those that follow scripture blindly are sheep.
Those who study scripture and let it guide them are a whole other matter.
Blind faith is to be avoided. Belief can be admirable. |
Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
27
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Posted - 2011.11.05 09:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's just a book. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.05 10:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Elson Tamar wrote:It's just a book.
Incorrect. To you it is just a book. To the Amarr, it is something much more essential.
Do you say it's "just water"? Do you say it's "just oxygen"?
Speak to an Amarrian who has lost his or her faith some time. You will understand that the process of losing it was more painful than anything they have ever gone through. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.05 15:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am interested now. . . I would like to read more about the scriptures. . . ~The prophecy comes true. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2011.11.05 16:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:I am interested now. . . I would like to read more about the scriptures. . .
Always worth finding out about the belief systems of others, regardless of your opinion of their truth. Especially wide spread ones. At the very least, it will inform you about those peoples motivations. It may even give you pointers about how to adjust your own.
Belief is the anchor-stone for life, be it a belief in religion, a nation, your fellow man, or science. Without it, you'll be adrift in the currents of life. |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
79
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Posted - 2011.11.05 17:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lucius Vindictus wrote:How good for you that you think you know what is best for us. Funnily Amarrians are often criticized by your kind for having that same attitude towards others.
You misunderstood me: perhaps you were too busy trying to judge me through a blurry lens of ethnocentrism and stereotype. I believe that only you know what is best for you, and that what is best for you will always be what is the right thing to do, no more, no less. That being said, I do NOT mean what is best for your bank account.
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Victoria Stecker
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.11.05 17:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Every once in a while I check to see if Jason has suddenly developed the ability to contribute something valuable to a discussion.
I'll check again in a few months. |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
79
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Posted - 2011.11.05 18:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Victoria Stecker wrote:Every once in a while I check to see if Jason has suddenly developed the ability to contribute something valuable to a discussion.
I'll check again in a few months.
Petty insults aside, what exactly have you recently contributed to have grounds to judge me?
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Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
43
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Posted - 2011.11.05 20:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Who are you, and why are you interested in scripture since you obviously think its some sort of self-help book the Gallente use. I am here to tell you its nothing of the sort - it is truth, in a book. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
42
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Posted - 2011.11.06 12:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ruah Piskonit wrote:Who are you, and why are you interested in scripture since you obviously think its some sort of self-help book the Gallente use. I am here to tell you its nothing of the sort - it is truth, in a book.
Approximative, at best.
- It is not one book, it is many, and a the knowledge of a whole culture, if not more.
- It is not Truth, the Truth only lies behind, for that Truth is the flawless word of God, and Scriptures are merely written by unperfect humans, in an unperfect language, through an unperfect interface. Unless of course, you refered to the TC's personnal relative truth (vs absolute Truth, with capital T for convenience). |
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Merdaneth
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
41
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Posted - 2011.11.06 19:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Don't do what your government tells you that God tells them is right, do what you think is right.
Obviously many people think to do what is written in the Scriptures and what God tells them is right. Why would you think it odd for people to think so? Because that seems to be the hidden assumption behind your words.
The fact that people can both accept and fall from faith should be able to tell you that it is an individual and changeable decision to do so.
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Jason Galente
mishima ryu
81
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Posted - 2011.11.06 21:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Don't do what your government tells you that God tells them is right, do what you think is right. Obviously many people think to do what is written in the Scriptures and what God tells them is right. Why would you think it odd for people to think so? Because that seems to be the hidden assumption behind your words. The fact that people can both accept and fall from faith should be able to tell you that it is an individual and changeable decision to do so.
Yes, that may be the case, but it's also an assumption to infer that all people of the Amarrian faith are individualistic in their approach. I'm sure many content themselves to just listening to anything the Theology Council says and accepting it as barebones truth. This simply is not the case, the interpretation of the Theology Council is only 1 possible interpretation of Scripture. It's important that each and every reader keeps his or her own interpretation at heart. |
Vallek Arkonnis
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
0
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Posted - 2011.11.06 22:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Merdaneth wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Don't do what your government tells you that God tells them is right, do what you think is right. Obviously many people think to do what is written in the Scriptures and what God tells them is right. Why would you think it odd for people to think so? Because that seems to be the hidden assumption behind your words. The fact that people can both accept and fall from faith should be able to tell you that it is an individual and changeable decision to do so. Yes, that may be the case, but it's also an assumption to infer that all people of the Amarrian faith are individualistic in their approach. I'm sure many content themselves to just listening to anything the Theology Council says and accepting it as barebones truth. This simply is not the case, the interpretation of the Theology Council is only 1 possible interpretation of Scripture. It's important that each and every reader keeps his or her own interpretation at heart.
The Council exists so that the proper interpretation is taught and accepted. The Scriptures are God's revelation of His will to mankind, not some spiritual chicken soup. God's will is truth, and truth is objective, it is not open to opinion or personal interpretation. Only the Council and the Empress can authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures. One thinking they know better as an excuse to depart from orthodoxy is committing grievous sins of pride and heresy. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
43
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Posted - 2011.11.07 00:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
The Council exists so that the proper interpretation is taught and accepted. The Scriptures are God's revelation of His will to mankind, not some spiritual chicken soup. God's will is truth, and truth is objective, it is not open to opinion or personal interpretation. Only the Council and the Empress can authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures. One thinking they know better as an excuse to depart from orthodoxy is committing grievous sins of pride and heresy.
I am sorry to say it but your reasoning is full of flaws and contradictions.
To begin with you say that the TC exists to teach "the proper interpretation", and then you explain that God's truth is not open to opinion or personnal interpretation... So, is it, or is it not ?
Telling that the TC's interpretation is the right one, the only one Truth embodied by God, implies that the TC is able to totally comprehend God itself, which is almost heretical in itself, leading to either consider that God is as much as flawed as humans or Amarrians, or either leading to consider that humans and Amarrians, or just the TC's members, are flawless and at the level of God Himself. And you talk about pride and heresy ?
Then, the proper interpretation is not an interpretation if it is the Truth. And again, if anyone states that he knows that perfect and absolute Truth told by God, able to comprehend everything of God while we are still struggling to learn and expand our own knowledge of God's creation, is an aberration.
The only thing on which I agree with is that the TC and the Empress are the only ones to authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures, because it is that way by Amarrian law, nothing more. |
Vallek Arkonnis
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 05:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:
The only thing on which I agree with is that the TC and the Empress are the only ones to authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures, because it is that way by Amarrian law, nothing more.
So mere law imputes the authority to recognize and disseminate God's will? The authority to discern, and therefore teach, God's will is God given. For the Council to punish heresy it has to know orthodoxy. If the authority of the Empress is unquestionable and absolute then the source of her authority must also be unquestionable and absolute. |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
73
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Posted - 2011.11.10 07:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've asked a helpful goon to summarize the last 2 weeks of Intergalactic Summit comms traffic.
It reads a lot like this:
"Dang, Amarr, your God is, like, invisible! wut? I don't get it! HAHA!"
It's all just so incredibly clever. + Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
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Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
46
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Posted - 2011.11.10 11:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:
The only thing on which I agree with is that the TC and the Empress are the only ones to authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures, because it is that way by Amarrian law, nothing more.
So mere law imputes the authority to recognize and disseminate God's will? The authority to discern, and therefore teach, God's will is God given. For the Council to punish heresy it has to know orthodoxy. If the authority of the Empress is unquestionable and absolute then the source of her authority must also be unquestionable and absolute.
This kind of reasoning is often refered to as obscurantism, you know ? |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
86
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Posted - 2011.11.10 15:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:I've asked a helpful goon to summarize the last 2 weeks of Intergalactic Summit comms traffic.
It reads a lot like this:
"Dang, Amarr, your God is, like, invisible! wut? I don't get it! HAHA!"
It's all just so incredibly clever.
Jason Galente wrote: As a bit of a footnote, this isn't an accusation for those of you who happen to disagree: it's simply an assertion of my own experiences (my views of the Empire in this light are not unique, I share them regarding most established authority) and a reflection of some of the debate I've seen on the Summit lately. It's entirely possible that your conception of right and wrong are similar to those of the Empire at large, as Mr. Thessalonia suggested. I'm not an atheist, by any means: I believe God does exist, but that he exists in each of us as our idea of what is right and wrong, not just what is expedient or profitable. My use of the term 'discretion' was indicative of the cautionary nature of the thread, that one needs to listen to his conscience first, then his government. A man's conscience is his God, is his religion. |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
74
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Didn't read your own thread, did you? + Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
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Vallek Arkonnis
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:
The only thing on which I agree with is that the TC and the Empress are the only ones to authoritatively teach what is and is not in the Scriptures, because it is that way by Amarrian law, nothing more.
So mere law imputes the authority to recognize and disseminate God's will? The authority to discern, and therefore teach, God's will is God given. For the Council to punish heresy it has to know orthodoxy. If the authority of the Empress is unquestionable and absolute then the source of her authority must also be unquestionable and absolute. This kind of reasoning is often refered to as obscurantism, you know ?
It's rather simple, Miss Farel. If the Council and the Empress didn't carry with them the God-given authority to discern God's will then what they decree is nothing more than opinion. The Scriptures, orthodoxy, heresy would all be opinion; free to be accepted or rejected as one saw fit because there would be no divine authority to back them as Truth, thus the entire foundation of the Empire would unravel.
If it is true that the Empress' word is final and absolute and the Council can indeed root out heresy authoritatively, then the only logical conclusion is that their authority to do so is not imputed by man but by God. |
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