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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/02/2006 17:24:14 A corpmate of mine is setting up a Moros. Its primary purpose is to be a fleet combat ship, though it will also of course be used against enemy POSs. I've designed a setup for it and would like to know if there's any way to improve it . My goals in designing this setup were simple:
1. Tank at least 10,000 raw damage per second in siege mode, forever. 2. The modules in total cost less than the ship itself.
Setup:
3x dual 1000mms/siege ions 1x siege module 4x cap recharger II 1x sensor booster II 2x cap rep 3x corpum a-type energized adaptive membranes 2x dark blood/true sansha cap power relays
With level 4 armor resist skills and 4/4 cap skills, this yields an infinite tank, though it won't run forever with the guns on. The resists are of course distributed the same as the normal Moros resists, but about 66% higher (the equivalent of 4 66% hardeners). It tanks about 12000 damage per second assuming the damage is coming equally from all damage types. Even if the damage consisted soley of enemy Tempests using Fusion L, it would still tank about 9000 damage per second worst case. Against a primarily Amarr fleet (often what we face in the South) it would be basically invincible.
Suggestions? Comments? Does it not fit?
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:22:00 -
[2]
I didnt think T2 Cap Reps existed...? ---:::---
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: El Yatta I didnt think T2 Cap Reps existed...?
Fixed, was a typo.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
they really are a pos only ship, they can instapop BS in certain limited cases, but it is rare, a friend of mine too about 100 shots at me , i was in a megathron he was in a moros, at 100km he didnt hit me once.
edit, sensor booster with dmg mod = place a cap recharger 2 in the mid and remove a crp with a dmg mod ofcourse
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Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gronsak personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
SB is midslot, damage mod is lowslot...
Originally by: Gronsak
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
they really are a pos only ship, they can instapop BS in certain limited cases, but it is rare, a friend of mine too about 100 shots at me , i was in a megathron he was in a moros, at 100km he didnt hit me once.
You seem to have forgotten about the Moros's drones.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Gronsak personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
SB is midslot, damage mod is lowslot...
Originally by: Gronsak
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
they really are a pos only ship, they can instapop BS in certain limited cases, but it is rare, a friend of mine too about 100 shots at me , i was in a megathron he was in a moros, at 100km he didnt hit me once.
You seem to have forgotten about the Moros's drones.
ofcourse anyone smart would of figured out the sensor booster is replaced with a cap recharger 2, and a cpr is replaced with a dmg mod.
moros drones onlt do 45km max
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Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:51:00 -
[7]
The moros doesn't have a bonus to drone range, and you sure hell won't be using a Drone augmentator in the highslots to get more range, so you're limited to 45km + EW drone skill which adds 3km per level..
Hardly useful to have 'sentry drones' that can't hit **** or Heavy drone IIs that take years to travel those distances...
still, if they do get in range.. They hurt
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:57:00 -
[8]
Wow, you're right, no bonus to drone range .
That's... somewhat lame. 60km range at most...
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:59:00 -
[9]
How much does the Drone Link Augmentor do, and what slot does it fit in? It doesn't say in the item database.
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Mr Morph
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dark Shikari How much does the Drone Link Augmentor do, and what slot does it fit in? It doesn't say in the item database.
Hi slot 50cpu 1mw iirc, 20km bonus range
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
I'd like to see a mega outdamage Moros drones.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:28:00 -
[12]
Alot of people have to remember that at some point, a tower litterally cant produce enough damage to kill your tank.
It'd be worth the time if someone figured out what that highest DPS fit for a large tower is, then design a tank that just barely beats it, so there's none of this unneccesary officer mod acquisitions. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Alot of people have to remember that at some point, a tower litterally cant produce enough damage to kill your tank.
It'd be worth the time if someone figured out what that highest DPS fit for a large tower is, then design a tank that just barely beats it, so there's none of this unneccesary officer mod acquisitions.
Its not designed to take on towers--you can quite easily do that with tech 2 equipment.
What about the possibility of 5 sentry drones with 3 drone link augmentors in high slots instead of turrets? That would give ~120km range.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:47:00 -
[14]
How much resistances do you have with the 3 corpum nanos on?
If you also want to run guns forever, investing in a couple of officer medcap rechargers might not be a bad idea... that setup is already at 2.6bil or so... why not 3 bil?
And if you train up the capital armor repair skill a bit higher, I'm pretty sure your tank can't last forever.
BTW who else thinks that -maybe- the weapon dmg should be increased and the siege bonus decreased to compensate? When out of siege mode the dmg is utter crap
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ookke
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:48:00 -
[15]
The drone link augmentors affect the drone control range, not the sentry drone optimal, so the maximum optimal range of a sentry drone is 62.5km(warden, 1.25x50km), and maximum hit range 112.5km(warden, 62.5+2x25km, with really rare hits). But yes, sentry drones on a moros would be scary :o
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ElCoCo How much resistances do you have with the 3 corpum nanos on?
If you also want to run guns forever, investing in a couple of officer medcap rechargers might not be a bad idea... that setup is already at 2.6bil or so... why not 3 bil?
And if you train up the capital armor repair skill a bit higher, I'm pretty sure your tank can't last forever.
With level 4 cap rep I think it'll still run forever. If it doesn't, the pilot can simply train up his cap skills--he only has 4/4 currently.
The calculations are not with me but the resists were something like 66.8% explosive, 75.6% kin/therm, and 84.99% EM.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:55:00 -
[17]
I fly a phoenix. During the fun on the stress test of what is now TQ server, I noted several things in line with this thread in regards to the moros and nalgfar for that matter.
I think tanking across the board is awesome in seige mode once your setup really masters the cap issue. Not just "sort of figures it out", but masters it. The people in one particular system on the stress test event eventually just gave up trying to take down my dread. In the real world though, I understand stront eventually runs out and with it so goes my dread in alot of circumstances.
For some reason or another the moros was easier to destroy than the nalgfar or another phoenix. I was party to two moros kills. There were assists on the kills of anywhere from 4 to 8 BS's. So there was other support there. But my cit torps were pummeling it for 6k to 17k damage.
Of course there is a chance that this "difference" I've noticed is just question of pilot skills\tactics or more likely setups.
Lastly, in reply to the statement in the thread that dreads were mostly useless against BS's: I just didn't find that to be true at all with cit torps at least. Against a BS sized target that was webbed with x5 webber at 90%, never was it the case that more than two volleys were required to pop the BS.
In fact that "two volley" rule held true on stress test all the way down to the AF level. I purposely targeted smaller ship sizes to test this.
What you have to do to kill non-pos targets with a dread hinges on what you can in some form or fashion web and scram. It's a completely viabile antiship platform once those requirements are met.
Finally, out of seige mode, a dread is 1.5 billion isk worth of metal waiting to blowup to virtually any organized group of ships situated to tackle it. You need to be in seige mode to seriously utilize a dread.
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2006.02.22 19:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dark Shikari the pilot can simply train up his cap skills--he only has 4/4 currently.
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.22 19:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Dark Shikari the pilot can simply train up his cap skills--he only has 4/4 currently.
QFT
i have 5/5 and i wouldn't dream of going near a dread, even if i had 5mil more SP focussed into flying it and using XL mods
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.22 20:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
I'd like to see a mega outdamage Moros drones.
moros with max skills and t2 ogres = about 1100dps with dred skill. blasterthron with neutrons and void and 3 dmg mod with ogre 2s = 1300dps
so there
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Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON |
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.22 22:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/02/2006 22:46:10
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Dark Shikari the pilot can simply train up his cap skills--he only has 4/4 currently.
QFT
i have 5/5 and i wouldn't dream of going near a dread, even if i had 5mil more SP focussed into flying it and using XL mods
He's a gunnery *****... IIRC he has 5s in every single gunnery skill except surgical strike and the specializations (which are all at 4).
I'll pass on the advice from this thread--how effective is dual-webbing in fleet combat to kill enemy battleships?
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Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.02.23 02:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Twin blade on 23/02/2006 02:10:54
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 22/02/2006 22:46:10
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Dark Shikari the pilot can simply train up his cap skills--he only has 4/4 currently.
QFT
i have 5/5 and i wouldn't dream of going near a dread, even if i had 5mil more SP focussed into flying it and using XL mods
He's a gunnery *****... IIRC he has 5s in every single gunnery skill except surgical strike and the specializations (which are all at 4).
I'll pass on the advice from this thread--how effective is dual-webbing in fleet combat to kill enemy battleships?
If your in range to attack a double web battleship with Siege blaster's you will rip it a new *******.
If i rember don't Siege blaster's still lack the range to attack a POS unless they fixed it and i did not read or just forgot.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
I'd like to see a mega outdamage Moros drones.
moros with max skills and t2 ogres = about 1100dps with dred skill. blasterthron with neutrons and void and 3 dmg mod with ogre 2s = 1300dps
so there
I couldn't help but notice you stuck damage mods on the mega, and not the moros...
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:44:00 -
[24]
with regards to the turrets, all you need is someone in a huginn/rapier with 2 webs and 2 target painters :). sharki, check the fix's combat fittings forum for my thread with all the numbers.
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
I'd like to see a mega outdamage Moros drones.
moros with max skills and t2 ogres = about 1100dps with dred skill. blasterthron with neutrons and void and 3 dmg mod with ogre 2s = 1300dps
so there
lol, this from the man who had a go at me for suggesting you can fit neutrons and 3 damage mods and still have a good setup. practice what you preach mate
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.02.23 22:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cummilla I fly a phoenix. During the fun on the stress test of what is now TQ server, I noted several things in line with this thread in regards to the moros and nalgfar for that matter.
I think tanking across the board is awesome in seige mode once your setup really masters the cap issue. Not just "sort of figures it out", but masters it. The people in one particular system on the stress test event eventually just gave up trying to take down my dread. In the real world though, I understand stront eventually runs out and with it so goes my dread in alot of circumstances.
For some reason or another the moros was easier to destroy than the nalgfar or another phoenix. I was party to two moros kills. There were assists on the kills of anywhere from 4 to 8 BS's. So there was other support there. But my cit torps were pummeling it for 6k to 17k damage.
Of course there is a chance that this "difference" I've noticed is just question of pilot skills\tactics or more likely setups.
Lastly, in reply to the statement in the thread that dreads were mostly useless against BS's: I just didn't find that to be true at all with cit torps at least. Against a BS sized target that was webbed with x5 webber at 90%, never was it the case that more than two volleys were required to pop the BS.
I owned a phoenix before and trust me, even if the BS is painted and webbed, your torps tend to do around 400 damage on a still moving BS. Now when it is not moving, COMPLETELY different story. You end up doing around 4000-7000. I killed many BSs during the stress test because they weren't moving. The smart people who moved up to full speed, I did about 10 damage. Though it does seem to be a good dread to go against other dreads, the RoF I still hate. The moros makes the best dread to fight off battleships. If you have several BS orbitting a Phoenix equipped and they each have a couple of NOS, kiss your phoenix good bye. You won't be able to kill them fast enough before your tank fails due to having no cap.
And have you tried a Phoenix against a POS? You need to use painters on anything smaller than a large to keep your damage maximized.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.23 22:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sarmaul with regards to the turrets, all you need is someone in a huginn/rapier with 2 webs and 2 target painters :). sharki, check the fix's combat fittings forum for my thread with all the numbers.
Never thought about the Huginn... ebil!
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.24 00:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 personally if as it is the tank runs clean for ever, i would replace that sensor booster with a damage mod. but thats just me.
seems ok
just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
I'd like to see a mega outdamage Moros drones.
moros with max skills and t2 ogres = about 1100dps with dred skill. blasterthron with neutrons and void and 3 dmg mod with ogre 2s = 1300dps
so there
lol, this from the man who had a go at me for suggesting you can fit neutrons and 3 damage mods and still have a good setup. practice what you preach mate
did i say it was a possible useable pvp setup? i just said a blasterthron can do more damage than a moros drones. oh and i do practice what i preach, i still stand by the neutrons = **** setup rule.
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Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2006.02.24 09:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 22/02/2006 17:43:42 just so u know, a BS with decent transverts will not be hit by a moros in siege mode, and a moros out of siege mode does less dmg than a megathron.
The Moros with is Drone Slots is a BS killer. The KIA Moros can take down a BS at any range very very fast.
Sentry for range, Tech 2 for Close.
As for the setup, its very nice, although imho your tank should be sustainable even with guns activated, you may wanna look at maybe dropping a corpum adaptive or 2, replacing with tech 2 Thermal and EXP hardeners, and investing the cash in officer CPR or Cap Rechargers.
My Phoenix has the fabled sustainable tank, and as many peeps from the recent test servers will testify to, is as hard as fkin nails.
KIA Piccys
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.02.24 15:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Alot of people have to remember that at some point, a tower litterally cant produce enough damage to kill your tank.
It'd be worth the time if someone figured out what that highest DPS fit for a large tower is, then design a tank that just barely beats it, so there's none of this unneccesary officer mod acquisitions.
Its not designed to take on towers--you can quite easily do that with tech 2 equipment.
What about the possibility of 5 sentry drones with 3 drone link augmentors in high slots instead of turrets? That would give ~120km range.
make sure you add some trackign mods the name just escapes me
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