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Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
48
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Posted - 2013.11.22 00:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2913
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on.
Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks.
Massive Reduction in Lock time Massive Reduction in Lock Range Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit.
These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do.
Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs.
To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle.
Why do they need to be nerfed more? |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
146
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
-5/10 |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1938
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.
However I agree that the current penalties have very little effect on certain classes of ships, e.g. miners or industrials. How about a warp speed penalty? You can run away from a camp, but anyone actively chasing you will have an easier time catching up. |
Davos Jovakko
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.22 01:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
256
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Davos Jovakko wrote:Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved.
it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution.
reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change.
In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this.
IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
547
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on. Sure, as long as the other penalties go away at the same time. I don't mind the only penalties being align time & warp speed. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
625
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Posted - 2013.11.22 02:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
I was actually thinking they should get a warp speed bonus... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals Market and Contract PVP
137
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Posted - 2013.11.22 11:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.
Wrong warp core stabs increase your ships capability at 1 aspect of running away: the warp core strength. Its actually logical the other aspects (warp speed, align time, agility, etc) get a penalty. See it like a lot of other modules that have an advantage but at the same time a disadvantage that influences kind of the same thing. MWD makes you faster, but increased sig still allows you to be hit easier. Shield extenders give more HP, but also increased sig. Armor plates give more HP, but make you slower and less agile.
+1 from me I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack. |
novellus
The Special Snowflakes
55
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Posted - 2013.11.22 11:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
I remember a recent discussion about stabs *increasing* warp speed.
Personally nobody fits stabs unless they want to get away. Choosing not to engage means you have already lost.
-1 |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15685
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Posted - 2013.11.22 11:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on. Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks. Massive Reduction in Lock time Massive Reduction in Lock Range Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit. These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do. Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs. To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle. Why do they need to be nerfed more? This.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals Market and Contract PVP
141
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Posted - 2013.11.22 12:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on. Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks. Massive Reduction in Lock time Massive Reduction in Lock Range Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit. These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do. Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs. To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle. Why do they need to be nerfed more? This.
Like I described things usually have a drawback that affects the same category they buff/provide a bonus to. With stabs this isnt the case. I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
255
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 13:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Davos Jovakko wrote:Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved. it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution. reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change. In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this. IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do. FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling.
the "added" content had one goal, create pvp opportunitys, yet because of the WCS, it fail at that, because while the current wcs drawback seems OK to me, the FW plex are not demanding enought making a wcs fitted ship able to run them.
solution, make them powerfull enought so that a wcs fitting cannot complete them, or just deny access if ship has a wcs fited.
do that, and you won't hear about wcs anymore.
they didn't changed since long time, and before this FW iteration, were not a problem.
conclusion, the problem is with FW design, not the wcs |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
255
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Posted - 2013.11.22 13:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I was actually thinking they should get a warp speed bonus... yup, -50% |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
10
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Posted - 2013.11.22 13:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:Davos Jovakko wrote:Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved. it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution. reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change. In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this. IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do. FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling. the "added" content had one goal, create pvp opportunitys, yet because of the WCS, it fail at that, because while the current wcs drawback seems OK to me, the FW plex are not demanding enought making a wcs fitted ship able to run them. solution, make them powerfull enought so that a wcs fitting cannot complete them, or just deny access if ship has a wcs fited. do that, and you won't hear about wcs anymore. they didn't changed since long time, and before this FW iteration, were not a problem. conclusion, the problem is with FW design, not the wcs
Agree, but he has a point (doh - point). FW is one of the few places where you can PvE in a PvP fit. There is no excuse to fly with warp core stabilisers unless you are subscribing to play only part of FW. An adjustment to wcs might be called for, but not to align time.
I think the most appropriate penalty to wcs should be that the number of lockable targets is reduced to 0. Although drone boats would still be able to get around this with agressive settings on drones. Then by fitting wcs you choose not to be fit for fighting.
I agree the FW sites and the whole of FW needs another iteration. FW needs a whole number of passes to change things including, imo, banning either stealth bombers or all cloaking ships from FW mission sites. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
151
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Posted - 2013.11.22 14:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.
It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals Market and Contract PVP
147
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 14:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.
It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid.
First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs. Because stabs are a cowards module. I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack. |
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 16:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
novellus wrote:I remember a recent discussion about how stabs are underutilized and should *increase* warp speed.
Nobody fits stabs unless they want to get away. Choosing not to engage means you have already lost, so in my opinion, this is making a useless module even more useless.
-1 Choosing not to engage is a game choice, making extrication from the situation a win. Doesn't give you a KM, but then the game doesn't revolve around you. |
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.11.22 16:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Electrique Wizard wrote:
First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs. Because stabs are a cowards module.
Reading between the lines here I'm getting the impression you are hurt by having targets warp off into the distance waving their bare WCS'd arses in your face. It's your fault for not having enough point strength to catch every ship in the sky, not the other pilot for not wanting to give you a KM.
Your tears are delicious, thank you for sharing them with us. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
470
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 16:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Electrique Wizard wrote:Mag's wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on. Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks. Massive Reduction in Lock time Massive Reduction in Lock Range Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit. These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do. Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs. To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle. Why do they need to be nerfed more? This. Like I described things usually have a drawback that affects the same category they buff/provide a bonus to. With stabs this isnt the case.
Yes but if you traded those drawbacks, they'd be usable on a combat boat thereby forcing everyone to either scram or double point - thereby causing a crazy shakeup in the metagame. |
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
152
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 17:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Electrique Wizard wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote:When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.
It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid. First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs. Because stabs are a cowards module.
But it was still PVP. Player vs Player doesn't automatically result in a killmail. He chose to mine in lowsec, with neutrals in local, and I chose to attempt to counter if he had stabs on (which he did not). Even if he would have warped away because we did not have enough warp disruption to counter his stabs doesn't mean what just happened wasn't PVP.
You say its the cowards way out, but cowards live and preserve their strength to fight when they have the upperhand. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Do Dixie Chick
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.22 19:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.
However I agree that the current penalties have very little effect on certain classes of ships, e.g. miners or industrials. How about a warp speed penalty? You can run away from a camp, but anyone actively chasing you will have an easier time catching up.
I think reducing the warp speed considerably on a ship fitted with Warp Core Stabilizers could actually be viable, especially now with the interceptor buff. Imagine your warp speed going down from 9 AU/s to 2.25 AU/s because you've got some stabs fitted -- this already is a considerable drawback. Even if targeting systems would be unaffected by the module, warping slowly is a serious disadvantage, and makes interdictors even more powerful. |
XvXTeacherVxV
Agnito Industries Bask of Fail
50
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Posted - 2013.11.22 20:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
Madbuster73
RED SQUAD
68
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own.
The solution for FW: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=289620&find=unread |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
468
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Solj RichPopolous wrote:I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.
But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.
I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.
So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.
Flame on.
That's a reasonable alternative penalty, but only if you want to see WCS on combat ships instead of seeing them on travel fits.
If you're hunting wartargets get a lachesis and fit 3pt scrams.
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own.
This. Why can't I delete this signature? |
Beta Maoye
Ecstasy Of Gold Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.11.22 20:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Since web stab. has penalties on lock time and lock range, I actually think scrambler should have penalties on speed and warp speed to make it balance. |
Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 23:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
typical t1 frigs get 8 AU.. lets say.. warp core stabs nerf warp speed by -1 per one equipped.. thus if you quad stab thats 4au per second (HALF the speed of a un-stabbed frigate) meaning if you roll the die and get lucky you an be waiting where they warped to.
downsides are this wouldn't work for other ship types.. so my proposition is this.. remove the drawbacks to locking and range on warp core stabs But!..change it to nerf the warp speed by a % instead thus it can work for All ship types and keeps ceptors role highly sought after for gangs or solo roaming but also because they use resources from the ships PG and cpu and take up valuable low slots its a nerf to the ships fitting anyway.. |
Sun-Tugo Drovotet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 18:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
You could just leave WCS as they are and instead deal with the whining from those who can't abide seeing ships vanish into the distance, having shrugged off the points laid upon them. THAT would be far easier, requiring no modifications to the game software. |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
23
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Posted - 2013.11.23 18:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:[quote=Zan Shiro] FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling. Avoiding certain ships you know you can not win against, is wise. FW is a cash cow, not a player tournament.
OT: -1. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
121
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 18:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:typical t1 frigs get 8 AU.. Thank you for letting me know that I could stop reading.
Reducing align time won't do anything for people in FW sites and ruin them for indys and surprise warp fits. |
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