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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
36
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
We are each our own nation, beholden to none but those we choose.
To be a Capsuleer is to embrace choice.We have the freedom to choose how to live. Where to live. What to do. Who to serve. Who to rule. Those that continue to serve as they did before, without at least examining their motives, disgrace what they now are.
No longer should we bow to imposed Morality. The laws of common man mean nothing to those who will outlive them. The laws to obey come from within. This is not an excuse for lawless behaviour. The profligate Capsuleer will burn out, just as common man would burn out. A Capsuleer must choose their own laws, breaking them only in extremis. The nature of these laws is something each Capsuleer must determine for themselves. To never abide a slave to be held; to treat loyal slaves well; to put disobedient slaves to death; to always ave a damsel in distress; to always leave the silly ***** to her fate.
There will be those that disagree with the laws that each Capsuleer chooses for themselves, common man and Capsuleer alike. Do not be dissuaded through hardship from holding to your own morality. It is what will sustain you in centuries to come. Do listen to others arguments, for they may give you insight into your own condition.
Each Capsuleer must walk their own path, if it coincides with that of another, or not. Listen to those you find wise. Shun those you find foolish. Dispense what you decide to those who will listen.
We are Capsuleers, and we can be eternal. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I am sure that you realize that what you are proposing here is Anarchy, right?
I suppose that either doesn't matter, or makes it more attractive to you. |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
12
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote: I suppose that either doesn't matter, or makes it more attractive to you.
Or makes him more attractive to the Star Fraction.
.domination sentinel .stillwater |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not everyone is a blind Amarrian. Some of us DO think for ourselves. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some of us Amarrians as well.
That doesn't make me think Anarchy and laws based on subjectivism are a good idea. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
I will say this for the original author, however. With all people, and especially with capsuleers, it is important that you highly internalize whatever code you follow.
We need restraints. If no one will restrain us, we must needs restrain ourselves. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think the only restraints you should follow are the ones that the universe places on you. As a capsuleer, you are more powerful than a god....use that power. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:I think the only restraints you should follow are the ones that the universe places on you. As a capsuleer, you are more powerful than a god....use that power.
This would lead to chaos and death on a scale the universe has never seen, so I think I will pass, thanks. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Power that is unused it waste. If you are a waste you belong planetside. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
You're a particularly foolish young one.
There is a saying that goes "Just because you can, it doesn't mean that you should."
I do not understand how you could have grown up in a civilized society without having learned this lesson at a very young age.
Then again, most Capsuleers tend to have the maturity level of particularly idiotic children, so I can't say I am suprised, though I do wish that standards were enforced a little better. |
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Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Perhaps I don't feel the same as most. I have little memory of my early life. In fact I can't remember any of it, until just about a month ago when I woke up in a cloning bay. Maybe I used to feel differently. . . But now all I know is that I am all powerful, even if there are those that are even more powerful than me. I try to remember what happened before but, it's just foggy...and broken. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 18:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:Perhaps I don't feel the same as most. I have little memory of my early life. In fact I can't remember any of it, until just about a month ago when I woke up in a cloning bay. Maybe I used to feel differently. . . But now all I know is that I am all powerful, even if there are those that are even more powerful than me. I try to remember what happened before but, it's just foggy...and broken.
People suffering from obvious mental impairment should seek treatment; They should not be given battleships. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
and yet... i gallumph in my ship. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:and yet... i gallumph in my ship.
And there, in a stroke, you have hit upon my issue.
Go seek treatment. Don't turn your illness into suffering and pain for others because you don't want to learn a little self control. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
the matter of self control is not the concern here. I am a pacifist by nature.
but the matter of mental stability.... the life of a capsuleer can be frought with dangers not readily present to the main public. -inferior quality clones -wet graves ~The prophecy comes true. |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
14
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
We are Capsuleers, and we can be eternal.
Oh brother, not another! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:the matter of self control is not the concern here. I am a pacifist by nature.
but the matter of mental stability.... the life of a capsuleer can be frought with dangers not readily present to the main public. -inferior quality clones -wet graves
If you are a pacifist by nature then you adhere to a code, and therefore have some sort of self-restraint. Are you saying you are envious of psychopaths then?
I'm just going to let this matter of mental instability drop, because clearly you seem too enamoured of the idea to convince you to drop it. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
36
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:I am sure that you realize that what you are proposing here is Anarchy, right?
I suppose that either doesn't matter, or makes it more attractive to you.
Anarchy is what we have. And all laws, both common and those that a Capsuleer chooses, come from a subjective source. The only difference is that the laws of a society have the force of Tradition behind them. Take Slavery. For some societies, it is an abomination that must be stamped out. For others, it is merely the normal state of affairs. Right and wrong exist only in the mind of the observer.
Of course, this is coming from a non-religious aspect. In the end, however, all morality or law from an external source states is, 'Do this, or I'll hit you with my big stick'. There is always a stick, even if it's dressed up as absence of a carrot.
What I hope, if not expect, to achieve is for Capsuleers to take a step back, and look at what they're doing. And why. 'Because I can', is as much a failure as 'Because he said so'. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
36
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
We are Capsuleers, and we can be eternal.
Oh brother, not another!
Just a statement of fact. There is nothing to stop us, but the scope of our ambition. Ennui is the greatest threat. We can have forever. So scope your goals accordingly. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:I am sure that you realize that what you are proposing here is Anarchy, right?
I suppose that either doesn't matter, or makes it more attractive to you. Anarchy is what we have. And all laws, both common and those that a Capsuleer chooses, come from a subjective source. The only difference is that the laws of a society have the force of Tradition behind them. Take Slavery. For some societies, it is an abomination that must be stamped out. For others, it is merely the normal state of affairs. Right and wrong exist only in the mind of the observer. Of course, this is coming from a non-religious aspect. In the end, however, all morality or law from an external source states is, 'Do this, or I'll hit you with my big stick'. There is always a stick, even if it's dressed up as absence of a carrot. What I hope, if not expect, to achieve is for Capsuleers to take a step back, and look at what they're doing. And why. 'Because I can', is as much a failure as 'Because he said so'.
Of course it is. All power is defined by who is carrying the stick.
It has been theorized by political philosophers for centuries that one of the main functions of a state is to maintain a monopoly on violence. This is not oppression, or injustice, this is the essence of what a social contract is.
You turn your violence over to the state because to do otherwise, to maintain absolutely control of your own violence, is to create a situation of All being at war with All.
This is what your anarchy brings, Captain. Yes, it is the base level of human interaction. No, it is not a desireable, or pleasant thing.
I am increasingly of the opinion that it should be avoided at all costs. |
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Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Of course it is. All power is defined by who is carrying the stick.
It has been theorized by political philosophers for centuries that one of the main functions of a state is to maintain a monopoly on violence. This is not oppression, or injustice, this is the essence of what a social contract is.
You turn your violence over to the state because to do otherwise, to maintain absolutely control of your own violence, is to create a situation of All being at war with All.
This is what your anarchy brings, Captain. Yes, it is the base level of human interaction. No, it is not a desireable, or pleasant thing.
I am increasingly of the opinion that it should be avoided at all costs.
I agree with you on this matter. But at the same time, you must realize there are those who do want war on all. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.11.04 19:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yes, they do. Another cheesy saying goes 'Some men just want to watch the world burn'.
The proper role of the state (all states) is to find these people and make sure that cannot happen. |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
77
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
You people say Anarchy like it's a bad thing.
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Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yes! Yes I do! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
38
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anarchy, with the definition of being an anti-statist society that is based on the spontaneous order of free individuals into autonomous communities, isn't a bad thing.
When you're dealing with a lawless environment, that's another matter. |
Jason Galente
mishima ryu
77
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Posted - 2011.11.04 20:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Anarchy, with the definition of being an anti-statist society that is based on the spontaneous order of free individuals into autonomous communities, isn't a bad thing.
When you're dealing with a lawless environment, that's another matter.
The former. |
Nicoletta Mithra
Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah
8
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Posted - 2011.11.05 01:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Laws are rules - societal norms - that can be legitimately enforced by the state. They don't get legitimation by people agreeing on them, but by people agreeing on them to be right and just. To claim that what is right and just is what is perceived to be such makes them obsolete, though. Norms need to have an objective element to function as norms - as being binding to those that don't play by the rules, for otherwise they would eliminate the norms by their noncompliance to agreeing on them.
Laws, like any other norms of human conduct, need to be rooted to some extent in an objective truth about how human should act on one another.
And by the way. The spontaneously arising order that comes to be in human societies exist for a very long time now: It's called state or polity. Being anti-statist is being against that which arose naturally among humans - it's being against nature. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.11.05 01:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Anarchy, with the definition of being an anti-statist society that is based on the spontaneous order of free individuals into autonomous communities, isn't a bad thing.
When you're dealing with a lawless environment, that's another matter. One leads to the other. Folks deliniate between the two for intellectual style points, but in practical terms anarchy leads to lawlessness.
This is, in fact, the prime sticking point I have with Fractionite philosophy. It is why two hard-line NRDS organizations such as Star Fraction and CVA fight so bitterly. |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
13
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Posted - 2011.11.05 15:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Laws are rules - societal norms - that can be legitimately enforced by the state. They don't get legitimation by people agreeing on them, but by people agreeing on them to be right and just. To claim that what is right and just is what is perceived to be such makes them obsolete, though. Norms need to have an objective element to function as norms - as being binding to those that don't play by the rules, for otherwise they would eliminate the norms by their noncompliance to agreeing on them.
Laws, like any other norms of human conduct, need to be rooted to some extent in an objective truth about how human should act on one another.
And by the way. The spontaneously arising order that comes to be in human societies exist for a very long time now: It's called state or polity. Being anti-statist is being against that which arose naturally among humans - it's being against nature. That sounds like Amarrian style thinking. ~The prophecy comes true. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2011.11.05 16:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:Laws are rules - societal norms - that can be legitimately enforced by the state. They don't get legitimation by people agreeing on them, but by people agreeing on them to be right and just. To claim that what is right and just is what is perceived to be such makes them obsolete, though. Norms need to have an objective element to function as norms - as being binding to those that don't play by the rules, for otherwise they would eliminate the norms by their noncompliance to agreeing on them.
Laws, like any other norms of human conduct, need to be rooted to some extent in an objective truth about how human should act on one another.
And by the way. The spontaneously arising order that comes to be in human societies exist for a very long time now: It's called state or polity. Being anti-statist is being against that which arose naturally among humans - it's being against nature.
The problem with most states, is that they have become self perpetuating, for no reason other than that they exist.
And the objective element to a norm, is that it's been existence for a while. It's only relevant, if the conditions that led to it rising, haven't changed. Capsuleers are a pretty big change, no? Even if you just look at the lifespan issue.
Aside from that, it's a fairly circular argument to say: 'Laws exist, because if people didn't follow them, they wouldn't exist. So you should follow them'. |
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