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Frezik
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Posted - 2006.03.01 04:03:00 -
[1]
It seems to me that while some races benefit from a tier 3 BS, other races don't even need 2 tiers.
Amarr: Both BS are gun platforms. Seems redundant, but I've never flown them in real combat. Can't imagine what a tier 3 would be except to have another gun platform.
Caldari: Two well-defined roles for each (EWar and Missile Boat), can certainly use a rail platform in tier 3.
Gallente: Also well-defined roles (drone carrier and gun platform). A third tier doesn't seem strictly necessary, but making the thron as the prefered blaster platform and a tier-3 into a rail platform seems possible.
Minmatar: One gun platform, and one gun missile drones rusting pipe o' doom.
So of these, it seems like Caldari are the only ones who could have a new BS with a good role, and we could throw in one for the Gallente while we're at it. A new Amarr BS just seems the inflate the current redundancy. Minmatar only really need 1 BS, as the 'phoon is currently the BS that doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up.
Suggestion: just go ahead and make the 'phoon into the Minnie Raven, make the tempest a good autocannon platform (as it is now), and the tier 3 BS into a sniper platform.
Alternative: teir 3 becomes an EWar platform.
Alternative 2: dedicated mining platform ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.03.01 04:27:00 -
[2]
The thing is that just looking at the phoons bonus its the sniper platform... it just doesn't work like that.
The phoon doesn't perform any role really. Not any role that the tempest will do better.
The tempest snipes brutally well, and is a really nice AC platform , and tanks pretty hard when it wants to. It just makes me wonder, whats the point of the phoon anyway ?
I hope to god we don't end up with a painter ship.
Please devs ... come up with something good.
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Frezik
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Posted - 2006.03.01 05:58:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Valea Silpha The tempest snipes brutally well, and is a really nice AC platform , and tanks pretty hard when it wants to. It just makes me wonder, whats the point of the phoon anyway ?
Exactly. As things are, there's no point in minnies having 2 battleships. Forget about 3.
If there's going to be a third minnie BS, I think the current two need to be modified to fit a specific role better. "Tempest, only better" isn't going to work. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.03.01 12:43:00 -
[4]
A good tanking ship would be nice phoon sort of has that spot but is never used so no one will know.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.01 12:51:00 -
[5]
When/if Phoon gets its missile bonus, it'll be a great BS. With a lot of weapon options. And a great tank.
The third tier BS would, I hope, be well defined in something else classified 'Minmatar'. Lets see what we've got precedent for (ill resist the urge to joke):
Speed/Agility Painting Webbing Missile Use?
So it could be maybe, and I'd be happy with any of these:
A 'fast' BS - 5% turret dmg per level, 5% RoF per leve, 200+m/s base speed A painter BS - No. Just no. A webber BS? - 5% RoF and some bonus web range? Missile Use - A dedicated Missile BS, different to the Raven; armour tank and bonus rof/dmg/accuracy insteaad of speed and range?
Just some ideas.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Slink Grinsdikild on 01/03/2006 13:00:27 I wouldn't mind a Support/Drone BS. Kinda like a bigger Arbitrator, only with a web range bonus instead.
But who am I kidding, we'll probably get a Typhoon Mk2.
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:26:00 -
[7]
If you divide Gallente battleships into blasters and railguns, why not do the same for Amarr? Geddon sure is more suited for pulse lasers and the Apoc can be the beam platform. So then Amarr would also have 2 differnt battleship concepts.
As for the Amarr tier 3 battleship, I would love a 'giant arbitrator'. Lots of drone space, 5-6 mids for EW, bonus to tracking disruptors and drone dmg/hp, good armor, fewer turret slots. Yea that would be my kind of ship.
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- Forsch
Defender of the empire
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2006.03.14 07:42:00 -
[8]
I'm slavishly waiting for the Tier-3 minmatar ship in great anticipation, but i agree that from a design standpoint it's a mistake. What happens to the tempest?
The solution is to take the models/names for the apoc and the tempest, and change the slots/hardpoints/bonuses to make them tier-3. Then introduce new tier-2 cruisers and tweak the tier-1s to give each race the 3 obvious roles discussed above.
That won't ever happen though, but it would be less fair to make the apoc and tempest worse to give them a role without usurping them so you might as well make them better and up the skill reqs.
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Tomsudy
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Posted - 2006.03.14 07:48:00 -
[9]
Maybe it would be easier to give the tempest another med slot or turret point or something and make that the tier 3 bs then design something completely different for the tier 2 ________________________________________
Warlords corp Core Collective council member |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.14 07:58:00 -
[10]
tbh, looking at the ship progression not many races need a tier 3.
Amarr Gank: Omen -> Zealot -> missing bc -> Geddon Tank: Maller -> Sac -> Proph -> Apoc
Caldari ECM: Blackbird -> Rook -> missing bc -> Scorp Missiles: Caracal -> Cerb -> missing bc -> Raven Rails: Moa -> Eagle -> Ferox -> missing bs
Gallente Drones: Vexor -> Ishtar -> missing bc -> Dominix Hybrids: Thorax -> Deimos -> Brutix -> Megathron
Minmatar (btw, minny has no natural progression) Gank: Rupture -> Muninn -> Tempest Speed: Stabber -> Vaga -> Typhoon? (no speed bonus but it goes bloody fast regardless)
So besides caldari and possibly but probably not minmatar, all the races have battleships that match their main progression routes. The scorp used to be a rather nice rail platform before they turned it into a dedicated ewar ship, which is what landed us in this situation in the first place.
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Keven
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:48:00 -
[11]
i want a pocket carrier bs. i want a pure blaster boat too.
aw, reality is such a bother...
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Nick Parker
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:10:00 -
[12]
For gods sake No F&*@ing Paining BS. EW is supposed to screw the other guy over, by making him miss you, or not target you at all. I can understand why the minmatar got painting as a bonus (Makes sense with arties and missles, and the devs hate the Minmatar anyways) but a painting BS is about as useful as boobs on a pirhana.
Problem with a minmatar tier 3 BS is that the tier 2 BS fills about any role you want. Up close HI damage? Tempest. Sniping? Tempest. EW? Tempest. Tanking? Tempest. Looking cooler than all your friends in their overgrown chickens, golden phalices, or space slugs? Tempest.
Maybe a drone carrier ship (wait, the phoon can do that ok, the only thing it can do better than a tempest).
If the phoon gets a dedicated missle bonus, then it rules out a missle boat. Anything else you nerf the tempest. A drone carrier would be nice, but it seems so "unminmatar."
Maybe a speed boat of the BS world. 5% ROF 5% velocity (or 7.5 velocity) with a base speed of 200 mps. 8 hi slots, 4 mids 6 lows. 6 turret HP, 2 utility
Shouldn't outdamage a autopest, but it would be nice to have a BS that could move for a change.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:33:00 -
[13]
Amarr Gank: Geddon Tank: Apoc Drone: New tier3 Hi 7 Med 5 Low 6 5% drone hp, dmg 10% laser cap usage
Caldari ECM: Scorp Missiles: Raven Rails: New tier3 Hi 7 Med 7 Low 4 10% Optimal 5% Resistance?
Gallente Drones: Dominix Hybrids: Megathron Dampers: New tier3 Hi 7 Med 6 Low 5 5-10% damper falloff 5% hybrid damage
Minmatar Gank: Tempest Speed: Typhoon Tank: New tier3 Hi 7 Med 6 Low 5 5% resistance 5% rof
just becouse its a tier3 doesnt have to make it stronger in all other areas tbh.
"We brake for nobody"
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:53:00 -
[14]
As for the minnie tier 3, lets look at the highslot distribution...
Tempest: 6/4 gun/mis Phoon: 4/4 gun/mis
So wouldnt the logical new minnie BB be a 4/6 missile boat? With a missile RoF and maybe a Stabberlike ship speed bonus and high base speed? (No, the phoon might be the fastest T1 battleship, but it is not really fast, a Machariel is fast). The pocket carrier is the phoon, though I think it should get 25m¦ additional drone space and a drone bonus when it gets unnerfed.
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.03.14 11:25:00 -
[15]
Just thinking out of the box here - how about a missile bs with a decent painter bonus (none of this 35% rubbish, something closer to mwd penalty)? Those two would work well together.
sgb
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DenBrown
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Posted - 2006.10.08 10:06:00 -
[16]
READ THIS!
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Imaran
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.10.08 11:19:00 -
[17]
Thread cleaned of spam and nasty links.
Sexeh CRC Website [email protected] Public Service Announcement : Contrary to popular belief, cheese is not steak pie in disguise. Offical Keeper of the key to Suvetar's Chastity Belt A Year To The Day *Click*ing The Forums - 5/10/06
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