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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
LaoJtzu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 04:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Of the last 20 fights I've had in Faction War plexes roughly two involved Faction sided opponents. The rest were gankers or random pvp'ers come to exploit the ready availability of targets. And while you're trying to make sure that deep red for their -5 security is or isn't the red of a faction opposite (and not just an ally with low security standings come for a stupidly unannounced visit) they are target locking us and unleashing the first salvo. The NPCs do not attack them. Typically they're older, more experienced pvp'ers. Typically they're flying more expensive ships. Typically, in short, they are much harder than your average FW opponent. Typically, therefore, FW players are not fighting FW players in a pvp arena that is supposed to be faction sided warfare.
Random PVP'ers don't belong in FW plexes. They earn nothing from it but they do gang up on and attack actual players. For the sheer thrill of it. At the very least anything but the FW side of the plex should be attacked by NPCs on sight. More reasonably people who aren't engaged in FW shouldn't be allowed into FW plexes at all. |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
78
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Firstly, no, we should not have restrictions on FW sites. Why wouldn't I be allowed to fly into them? What would be the logic behind it? Plexes offer a place to engage other players besides gates and asteroid belts, which is good, and besides, the last thing we need to more reason for people not to bother going into lowsec. You are saying that non-FW players do belong in faction warfare sites, and that completely undermines the point of the sandbox we call EvE.
Secondly, the fact that you are not seeing enough conflict with other FW pilots in your plexes is not because pirates are scaring them all away. It's because a large chunk of people who participate in faction warfare are quite risk adverse for wanting to get into a line of business that involves shooting at other people. It is a symptom of there not being enough incentive for players to shoot at other players. The fix for this is to increase the LP for shooting the opposite faction, and to decrease the LP for orbiting.
-1 |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
426
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
"Problem" of neutrals in FW plexes was discussed numerous times already. Denying access to FW plexes for them would undermine sandbox part of the game so i think that simply marking neutrals as suspect would suffice: civilian entering military complex is suspicious at least. That would remove the fear of SS loss in case FW pilot decides to attack 1st, from the side of neutral pilot nothing changes. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
LaoJtzu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
The logic behind keeping non-FW players out of FW plexes is self evident: they don't belong there. They're not participants in FW. All they can do is screw it up for the participants.
There are plenty of places for PVP'ers who are interested in facing off against their own kind to fight. How about anywhere in a duel? Why don't more 'pvp'ers' duel? Because they're afraid of even odds - of facing someone with as much hardware or experience.
The risk aversion is not the FW players: it's the overaged gankers who should be up and out fishing the rough seas, big nets, big boats, big fights, but would rather gank newbs in the coy pond that is a FW plex. And FW players have to stay in the plex to earn LP. They're stuck there - against all comers. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. |
Praxis Ginimic
Vessels of the Line Bask of Fail
569
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
NO! Bad noob. |
LaoJtzu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Praxis Ginimic wrote:NO! Bad noob.
hahahahahahaha |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
426
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Posted - 2013.12.01 05:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
LaoJtzu wrote:The logic behind keeping non-FW players out of FW plexes is self evident: they don't belong there. They're not participants in FW. All they can do is screw it up for the participants.
There are plenty of places for PVP'ers who are interested in facing off against their own kind to fight. How about anywhere in a duel? Why don't more 'pvp'ers' duel? Because they're afraid of even odds - of facing someone with as much hardware or experience.
The risk aversion is not the FW players: it's the overaged gankers who should be up and out fishing the rough seas, big nets, big boats, big fights, but would rather gank newbs in the coy pond that is a FW plex. And FW players have to stay in the plex to earn LP. They're stuck there - against all comers. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
HTFU or go back to where you came from (wow?). Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Silverbackyererse
11
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
No!
FW sites are a spectacular arena for PVP. Why on EVE should such an arena be limited to just a particular group of players?
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LaoJtzu
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silverbackyererse wrote:No!
FW sites are a spectacular arena for PVP. Why on EVE should such an arena be limited to just a particular group of players?
Because they're FW sites. Just like you can't take FW missions unless you're FW flagged - you shouldn't be able to enter FW plexes unless you've got a stake in the game - a stake that makes you as vulnerable to all the attacks and constraints as FW players. A better question is - why should non-FW players be allowed to get in to FW plexes?
You can't get in to a station if your faction is off. Is that messing with your sandbox? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8906
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Everyone has the right to pvp in these areas. Same as how you have the right to use my anoms in GSF sov and everyone has access to someones mission sites. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Praxis Ginimic
Vessels of the Line Bask of Fail
569
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Posted - 2013.12.01 06:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
You got that backwards big guy. I can go any damn where I please because I fight for my corp, not some faction. You answer to the Gallente faction... they tell you where to go wether or not I'm there to splode you |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
122
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Posted - 2013.12.01 07:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:simply marking neutrals as suspect would suffice: civilian entering military complex is suspicious at least.
It's lowsec. You can just shoot them.
That said, standings and FW are tied together in ways that make this disadvantageous to the FW guys, so a suspect flag to non-FW guys entering FW plexes, letting the FW guys shoot them without loss of standings, would probably help. After all, the whole point ot FW is to let people shoot each other 'legally' instead of as pirates. The FW areas really should be a place where everyone is either an ally or a valid target, and that change would help make it happen. Pirates can still freely come in and gank, but they won't get the paper shield of CONCORD helping them get first strikes anymore. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
67
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Posted - 2013.12.01 07:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Even Pirates can have an interest in FW plexes if they are on friendly terms with a FW corp/alliance. For instance, a pirate corp could work to push their blue's enemies out, for their blues to be able to control a system. Or they could be hired to attack a certain FW corp.
And the last thing Eve needs is another no risk isk/PVP venue.
You FW? You take the risk of Pirates. The Law is a point of View |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3710
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Posted - 2013.12.01 07:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Not supported. I'm in Faction Warfare and I LIKE IT when pirates come after me in a complex... especially when targets are scarce (random fights are what it's all about!).
Artificially limiting people also infringes on the sandbox ethos of EVE. Why should outlaws/pirates not be able to affect us?
You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that outlaws/pirates are generally better equipped and/or not newbies than Faction Warfare people. You are aware that there are more than a few FW groups that border on "small null-sec alliance" in terms of age, resources, and power... right?
Finally... there is one RL comparison which does work in this matter:
Faction Warfare people are like the Privateers of old. We are all independent agents... contracted out to perform the will of an empire... and can generally do as we please (including be an outlaw/pirate ourselves). Just because we choose a side it does not mean rogue elements cannot attack us or disrupt our activities. We are just flying a certain "flag." Nothing more.
Now quit yer bellyachin' an' get back out there ta' shoot people! Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Tabris Katz
The Ecstatic Cult of Dionysus Trifectas Syndicate
16
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Posted - 2013.12.01 08:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
[quote=LaoJtzuBecause they're FW sites. Just like you can't take FW missions unless you're FW flagged - you shouldn't be able to enter FW plexes unless you've got a stake in the game - a stake that makes you as vulnerable to all the attacks and constraints as FW players. A better question is - why should non-FW players be allowed to get in to FW plexes?
You can't get in to a station if your faction is off. Is that messing with your sandbox?[/quote]
Well that's not quite true about fw missions. When you start/warp to a fw mission, a site appears on the overview that anyone can warp to. This is similar to when someone first enters a fw plex. So no, non-fw players can warp to activated fw missions and loot them.
Also as a fellow fw pilot, I fundementally disagree with you on this. In a sense you want all the benfits of fw without any of the risk of being in low sec. The fact is, we are in low sec! Part of being in low sec is anyone can attack you where ever you are! If you start an expedition that leads you into low sec, yes only you can initially find it but you are at risk of others finding you. The only difference with fw plexs is they don't require the use of combat probes to find people.
Also, the basis of your argument is that non-fw players have no reason to go into fw plexs. Once again I'm forced to disagree, they are their for the joy of combat and/or to inprove their killboard. This happens to be the reason I joined fw as well, the lp from killing someone is just a small secondary benefit.
The fact is, if you don't want to deal with people coming into your fw plex then I suggest this. Leave fw and just do high sec missions. Just be warned that this will not stop people from finding mission sites and ninja looting your mission. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
477
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Posted - 2013.12.01 09:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Let them in, just stop making me lose status for shooting them in the face first.
That's all I ask. |
StahlWaffe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.12.01 11:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm totally okay with neuts like me not being able to activate the acceleration gate under one condition: The 'Anomaly' is 50km away from the acceleration gate. Effects: No more 'sliding'.
If you can live with that, and that cruiser gangs can denie access to novice and smallsites, then you can have neuts not being able to enter any FW Site except for Larges. |
Jaz Antollare
Deadly Loneliness
50
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Posted - 2013.12.01 11:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
In my opinion the defending npc should shoot those who aggresses on the defenders faction players, sounds just logically right. But not like deny the entrance, hell no. |
StahlWaffe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.12.01 13:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jaz Antollare wrote:In my opinion the defending npc should shoot those who aggresses on the defenders faction players, sounds just logically right. But not like deny the entrance, hell no.
Yeah, and FW Mission NPCs should shoot only hostiles, and not their own militiamen trying to kill the hostile. But that's just wishes. |
Cage Man
303
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maybe making the plex area like a null pocket is a solution, that way if you can agress neutrals you don't mess up your standings so you can then have an equal opportunity to engage first. Let the faction rat shoot anything that is not blue to itself.. The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back?? |
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Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
sry no, i havent read the answers before me.
But i would appreciate if all non fw-players entering a fw plex would be handled as if they were of the enemy faction and they would be automatically flagged suspect so that u wont lose ss for engaging them. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
257
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Posted - 2013.12.02 07:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
really confused here. We get the weekly remove stab and cloak threads since people use it to avoid pvp. So people show up to pvp and that too is a problem? May not be the target(s) you prefer but they are targets/km's. |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
363
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Posted - 2013.12.02 10:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vptt6 Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 12:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
I refuse to support the removal of potential targets, especially the more challenging targets. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire
204
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Posted - 2013.12.02 12:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:sry no, i havent read the answers before me.
But i would appreciate if all non fw-players entering a fw plex would be handled as if they were of the enemy faction and they would be automatically flagged suspect so that u wont lose ss for engaging them.
This would be a good idea. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
731
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Posted - 2013.12.02 13:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
FW plexes already have filter by ship type, that are crucial for FW framework but already borderline in term of sandbox. We cannot add more. Neutral cannot get the sov related advantages of FW and this is enough. Also, often when things are slow is cool to have neutral engaging.
But most important: FW have to be integrated with the low sec envinroment, adding artificial barriers goes against this. If FW had to be some separate arena then had to be deployed in HS. No, thanks.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1723
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Posted - 2013.12.02 14:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Down Vote. Moar Targets = Better gameplay. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3726
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Posted - 2013.12.02 14:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
What would we shoot then?
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Fourteen Maken
State Protectorate Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:sry no, i havent read the answers before me.
But i would appreciate if all non fw-players entering a fw plex would be handled as if they were of the enemy faction and they would be automatically flagged suspect so that u wont lose ss for engaging them. This would be a good idea.
You can yellow box them without going suspect, so I don't think it's a big deal really, just yellow box them and wait for them to aggress first, then probably die a few seconds later if your a terribad pvper flying around in half skilled **** fit ships like me. A far bigger problem is the fact that you're in enemy space with no access to station facilities, while they are usually operating in a home system with off grid boosts, friends to back them up and can go to a staion to ship up at any time, so they have huge advantages.
But they account for the majority of pvp in plexes now, taking them out would turn it into a boring lp grindfest, so I don't agree with the OP, I know where he's coming from, but at the end of the day we earn tons of LP to cover our losses, they only get loot to cover theirs so in the end it all balances out pretty well. |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
297
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Posted - 2013.12.02 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
FW... is that a foreign word for snowflakes? As in, "we are special so change just for us"? You guys are starting to sound like HS carebears.
No to OP idea and the other 'fixes'... make neutrals go suspect? Really? In low sec? FFS, just have all the weapon systems on all neutral ships disabled as soon as they enter LS then!!! |
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