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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
54
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:First off, I highly doubt it is going to cost 2bil ISK. Might at first, but in a month or so it will come down
Second, you aren't getting a covert cloak, so let it rest, and make your bets. This will be used in high sec, and WHs for sure, and IF it keeps it's repair bonus I bet 0.0 too. I rather see it get a cloak bonus like Black ops and be able to jump through convert cynos and regular cynos. Make it more useful, and more in line with exploring but also good for some PvP actions. But like I have stated before, I doubt CCP cares much what I think or most of us think. So either suck it up and don't get the ship or be creative and find useful acts for it.
The Stratios is 450m right now and its blueprint is 1/5 the price of this one. They will probably be almost 3b until the price comes down to a little less than 2b. I agree with most of the other posters here, this doesn't seem even close to worth that price if they aren't covert ops capable but if they were, 2b wouldn't seem so steep. Not that they necessarily should be, but they should be worth whatever they're going to cost.
The analyzer bonuses are pretty meh but fine if they aren't included in place of other actually useful bonuses. Logi bonus is good, but I agree that a range bonus would be appropriate too. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
54
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Posted - 2013.12.05 06:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Armakoir wrote: CCP Rise, this ship is a great opportunity to step outside the box. SOE is unlike other "pirate" factions, so you can really do something cool here, and right now this design is kinda meh, especially considering the pricetag.
This. That's why people were expecting a Covert Ops cloak or something really different. The logi battleship idea... it's part way there. A battleship with a covert cloak, definitely one of a kind. I think giving it one would also be in line with the theme of the SOE ships so far.
If not a cloaking BS, the attitude seems to be it should be more like a mini-carrier. I know a few people have been suggesting that it get a ship hangar or capital-sized reps, but it could also be more carrier-like if it could field fighters with a special bay that stores 25000-50000 m3 of fighters. Separate 400 m3 drone bay, standard bandwidth. Then you'd have a ship that could take fighters into neighboring wormholes without using caps that would crash the wormholes (or not even fit). You'd be able to use fighters in high-sec.
Is that overpowered? No, that's the most expensive subcapital in the game (barring AT prize ships). Of course everybody and their mom wants one. I do not feel that way about the proposed Nestor. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
58
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Posted - 2013.12.05 22:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I don't really understand the argument for having getting rid of these. If they are gone, they wouldn't be replaced with something else. They are there because it keeps theme with the other two Sisters ships, and it will likely get used by at least some people for the occasional ghost site or finding sites or for future content that uses hacking.
I like the +15 analyzer bonus idea but +10 is fine too since it's not there in place of some other bonus.
If this ship is really supposed to be used for exploration, it needs some kind of bonus to help it travel. Warp strength or bubble immunity bonuses wouldn't help it much at all. Cloak velocity bonuses would at least give it a means to travel in relative safety (cloak, align, warp, laugh at local, lose ship to gang at next gate).
The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do.
I say let it ride covert cyno bridges and/or give it a jump drive that can target covert cynos; but don't give it the ability to use a portal generator or any other bonuses to cloaks (targeting/reactivation delays) so it doesn't eliminate the need/use of actual Black Ops ships entirely, especially not if they're less than half the price. (Hear that folks? Blops ships are "cheap"). Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
59
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Posted - 2013.12.05 23:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:The problem with giving it all the Black Ops bonuses is that it makes all the existing Black Ops ships not-so specialized. It's faction, not t2, so it can't/shouldn't do everything that a more specialized t2 ship can do. SOE ships already do stuff that other pirate ships can't: mainly exploration and covert ops cloaking.
The question isn't can they do what other pirates ships can't, it's should they get all the bonuses BLOPS get and it seems like we agree that no, they shouldn't. I'm fine with the Nestor participating in BLOPS gangs. I'm not fine with them totally eclipsing the need for BLOPS at all. Let them jump, but don't let them bridge. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
59
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Posted - 2013.12.06 00:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
BeanBagKing wrote:One thing to note is that black ops ships haven't been balanced yet. People keep saying dont give it this or that because it shouldn't eclipse or be better than the current T2 battleships, but its entirely possible that when CCP balances them they get a buff that makes the Nester look weak (or at least not a good). I'm not sure what the balance plans for them are, just noting they likely won't be the same in a few months.
True, but it's reasonable to assume that they won't change that drastically from their current incarnation. Maybe they're already planning to rebalance BLOPS for Rubicon 1.1 but until they make an announcement stating as much... Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
60
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Posted - 2013.12.06 21:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:Sorry I'm sticking with strip club
But I want a gladiator ring where I can feed amarr priests to lions. How about we just call the "entertainment compartment"? Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
62
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Posted - 2013.12.09 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:Its awful. Should be able to fit a cov ops cloak. That completely goes against the other concepts for the soe ships. That bieng said: exploration ships that can enter and exit without being seen and are more than capable of defending themselves. Considering that this thing will cost as much as a dred. It has no exploratory value anymore. It will not be able to explore systems lower than .6 status. Combine that with the warp speed that pairs with warp accel, and the long allign time that battleships are famous for: This ship is dead before you ship it to tq.
I'm suspicious of comments that suggest .5 space isn't high-sec.... Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
64
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Posted - 2013.12.10 18:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
A +1 Drone bonus isn't pointless and wouldn't cause server overloads unless null-sec alliances decided to do Nestor-Doctrines, but the current drone bonus is fine. The issue with the ship isn't its slot layout, or its bonuses or lack thereof, it just doesn't have any way to safely travel anywhere but high-sec.
Jump drive. Cloaked Velocity. Covert Ops Cloak.
Gives us one of these, I frankly don't even care which. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
64
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Posted - 2013.12.10 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:What battleship is able to travel safely anywhere BUT high sec? Oh yea none. That's why you have them brought out OR come out in a big gang. Doesn't need bastion, or covert ops. Do some of you honestly think before you post this stuff? Only thing that MIGHT be nice, but honestly isn't needed is allowing it to jump through cynos. It has enough bonuses, and as long as you are creative you will be able to find a few uses for the ship. Lay out is fine also. Leave her be. She already has an ungodly amount of bonuses and will be able to have a good role in PvE, WHs, exploring, and prob even PvP. Stop asking for more, if you aren't happen with it, don't fly it.
A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
64
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Posted - 2013.12.10 21:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:Quote: A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability. So ONE ship out of ALL the battleships, and you think this should be able to also? No, maybe regular cynos, but I don't think covert cynos. It already has WAY too much to it. This can travel, just like ALL other battleships, in a gang or in a JF or carrier
Yes. The exploration themed battleship should have the capability to explore. If they called the Machariel an exploration ship I'd say the same thing about it. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
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XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
65
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Posted - 2013.12.10 22:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:Stop asking for things that clearly won't happen, and in all honestly it doesn't need.
.... No. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
65
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Give it a jump drive and the ability to jump to both cyno types, or scrap it altogether.
Not going to get used for exploration if you don't. Not by any smart pilot anyways. Also drones. What is ccp thinking. CCP needs to get rid of drones altogether. Too cpu intensive. I'm pretty sure CCP knows what happens to the node when big fleets start dumping out drones by the thousands. I'm shocked they jump at the opportunity to add to that problem.
I agree with your first point but worst-case scenario, the Nestor's contribution to node troubles will be negligible. Unless some of the richer alliances decide to do Nestor-doctrines but frankly, it'd be worth the node trouble just to see that in action. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
69
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Posted - 2013.12.11 21:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Oddly, the bastion was being criticized as the worst thing ever by some in the Marauder thread, but it's already being brought up as a fix to other things now that it's out. Good times.
It's almost like we don't operate with a single hive mind or something. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
73
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Posted - 2013.12.17 23:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ya know what, I think we're going about this all wrong. Everybody is trying to make this ship more coherent and useful. I think we should all just brainstorm role bonuses that we could keep adding to the hull without ever making it OP. Let's make it the hull of a 100 nearly useless bonuses. The less useful the better.
Like....
-50% cap usage of salvagers. +50% target painter falloff. +10 to drone sensor strength. 25% increase to firework rate of fire. Can Fit Snowball De-melter.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
77
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Posted - 2013.12.18 18:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:Ya know what, I think we're going about this all wrong. Everybody is trying to make this ship more coherent and useful. I think we should all just brainstorm role bonuses that we could keep adding to the hull without ever making it OP. Let's make it the hull of a 100 nearly useless bonuses. The less useful the better.
Like....
-50% cap usage of salvagers. +50% target painter falloff. +10 to drone sensor strength. 25% increase to firework rate of fire. Can Fit Snowball De-melter.
Can we please stop trolling this F&I thread right here and now?!
Or, you could request a troll screen role bonus for your Nestor.
-100% trolling comments in local when you get ganked. (At least until it explodes anyway). Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
78
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Posted - 2013.12.19 00:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:Does that ship self destruct?
The middle guns look like they may try to shoot through the front of the ship if a target gets in a bad angle.
No, it's got a role bonus that prevents it. -100% to self-inflicted damage. The self-destruct doesn't even work. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
79
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
The 100 Role Bonus Nestor
So far we have...
-50% cap usage of salvagers. +50% target painter falloff. +10 to drone sensor strength. +25% to firework rate of fire. -100% to self-inflicted damage. +1/2 of a point to warp strength. +25% to cycle time of stasis webs -100% trolling comments in local when you get ganked. +100% to ship scanner range.
Specialized 10000 m3 exotic dancer hold Can Fit Snowball De-melter. Can Fit Capital Mods (but does not have the power to online them). Golden killmail (When the Nestor dies its killmail is automatically posted as an item on the login news screen.)
I say we can reach 100 before Rise comments again. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
80
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Posted - 2013.12.20 14:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Here is my suggestion to make this ship worth the money it will cost. Key pointa are 1. ability to fit and utilize bastion module 2. 7/7/7 layout to keep Gnosis and Stratios line (6/6/6 and 5/5/5 layouts) 3. bigger cargo hold: Gnosis has biggest cargo among battlecruisers, Stratios - among cruisers, why should Nestor has it smaller, than Gnosis has? 4. Bigger PWG, though this is not that crucial.
NESTOR
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay Able to switch to deployed mode (Bastion mode) 50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 37% increased strength for scan probes
Slot layout: 7H, 7M, 7L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 12250 PWG, 680 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity:900
Sounds like some kind of t2 battleship instead of a faction battleship. Something that rhymes with "defrauder". Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
80
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Posted - 2013.12.20 17:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: I'm also worried about something that is deemed an exploit. I recall a thread once where dropping sentries and then running reps on them will get you in trouble, that this is bot-like behavior. This ship is absolutely PERFECT to do just that. But that can get you in trouble. It's like having a sports car in a country where you can't go fast anywhere, a vehicle designed to break "the law" but using it at it's best ability will be just that.
I believe this is the thread you're referring to: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84360
The situation was unique because they went AFK in a place that constantly spawns rats, but it was still a dumb call from the GM. Using RR on sentries is not a ban-able offense in and of itself. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
XvXTeacherVxV
The Cult Reborn
92
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Posted - 2014.01.08 23:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hostility towards devs and other forum posters only discourages developers from engaging threads like this at all. You might not be happy about the state of the Nestor (I'm not) but let's just be grateful that devs take the time to explain themselves here even when they don't have to, knowing full well that whatever they suggest will get picked apart by forum pvpers anyway.
I would like to hear Rise's thoughts on some of the other changes that were mentioned though, like a cloaked speed bonus or a non-covert jump drive. I was leaning toward a jump drive, but the cloaked velocity bonus would help this ship get around both k-space and wormholes without making it overpowered. Warp core strength could too, but I think that's the tackier of the suggested solutions. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
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