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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:20:00 -
[2371] - Quote
Damien White wrote:They will not go down, unless the smaller ships get a huge nerf.
Grinding LP isn't the only way to get SoE BPCs anymore, there are also drops in the drone regions, so the ship prices have a little more freedom to fluctuate independently of LP price.
The effect is already being seen in the Nestor's price, which has already dropped over 100m in the last week. Not a surprise considering the cost/benefit ratio/ |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
860
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 23:37:00 -
[2372] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:
The effect is already being seen in the Nestor's price, which has already dropped over 100m in the last week. Not a surprise considering the cost/benefit ratio/
I think that is more that people just aren't buying Nestor. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:05:00 -
[2373] - Quote
So, I played around with the changes a little bit and would like to put down my thoughts.
Unfortunately, I'm both not a Logi pilot, and completely out of practice fitting ships, so take my feedback with a grain of salt.
The distance and capacitor recharge changes are welcome changes to the Nestor. I didn't do a full Logi boat, but the additional distance and cap recharge bonus did make it a little easier for me to support my friend in testing. I was only running two RRs in my highs, and I didn't feel like my cap was strained, but I have no idea how well this stands up to Logi Frigs and Cruisers.
Overall, the Nestor feels fairly balanced now. It's a decent ship, just not worth the current price (which isn't controlled by CCP, and I assume is going to go down over time).
The only Criticism I have is that when I was using it as a Support / Logi BS the slot layout feels... off. I know it has a 7/6/6 layout to help with things like the Hacking/Analyzing, but I felt like my low slots were too limited and med slots were too plentiful. Like I said, I'm out of practice fitting ships, but I felt like I should have been able to fit a little more tank on a Gallente/Amarr hybrid. The Nestor doesn't have the advantage of speed tanking, like the smaller Logis, so it needs something to keep it in the fight.
I've said how bad the Nestor is at Analyzing/hacking compared to the alternatives, dropping those role bonuses and swapping one mid slot to a low, giving it a 7/5/7 layout, seems like a pretty good tradeoff. It would definitely entice me into taking mine out of the hanger more often. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:09:00 -
[2374] - Quote
-- Double Post -- |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2972
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 15:26:00 -
[2375] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Overall, the Nestor feels fairly balanced now. It's a decent ship, just not worth the current price (which isn't controlled by CCP, and I assume is going to go down over time). So here's the $1-billion question thenGǪ How much under $1-billion would the proposed Nestor be worth to you at this point? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Gustav Mannfred
the bring back canflipping corp
92
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:53:00 -
[2376] - Quote
the ships need really some love, the same for astero and stratios too. The nestor costs 1.5 bil isk and is not better than a dominix. A dominix cost less than 10% of a nestor and does it better.
NESTOR
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 10% to large energy turret optimal range(was armor resis bonus)
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 50% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range(was remote repair bonus) 150% bonus to large energy turret damage(was remote repair range) 50% bonus to large energy turret signature radius (from 400 to 200)(was optimal range for energy turrets) 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers
Slot layout: 6H(-1), 7M(+1), 6L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 17250(+6000) PWG, 1000(+320) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 11500(+2600) / 11000(+1050) / 11000(+200) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 9000 / 1000 / ? Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 132(+40) / .09(-.09) / 112000000(+56000000) / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400(-100) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95(+20)km / 135(+50) / 8(+1) Sensor strength: 25(+1) Magnetometric Signature radius: 540(+75) Cargo Capacity: 800(+100) i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183 |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2972
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 16:58:00 -
[2377] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:the ships need really some love, the same for astero and stratios too. The nestor costs 1.5 bil isk and is not better than a dominix. A dominix cost less than 10% of a nestor and does it better. But, butGǪ it's white. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
174
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 17:06:00 -
[2378] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:the ships need really some love, the same for astero and stratios too. The nestor costs 1.5 bil isk and is not better than a dominix. A dominix cost less than 10% of a nestor and does it better.
NESTOR
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 10% to large energy turret optimal range(was armor resis bonus)
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 50% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range(was remote repair bonus) 150% bonus to large energy turret damage(was remote repair range) 50% bonus to large energy turret signature radius (from 400 to 200)(was optimal range for energy turrets) 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers
Slot layout: 6H(-1), 7M(+1), 6L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 17250(+6000) PWG, 1000(+320) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 11500(+2600) / 11000(+1050) / 11000(+200) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 9000 / 1000 / ? Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 132(+40) / .09(-.09) / 112000000(+56000000) / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400(-100) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95(+20)km / 135(+50) / 8(+1) Sensor strength: 25(+1) Magnetometric Signature radius: 540(+75) Cargo Capacity: 800(+100)
just use a nightmare with not scanning and drone bonuses.........this ship is meant to be armor tanked.....
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Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
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Posted - 2014.03.05 17:09:00 -
[2379] - Quote
I don't have access to the market right now, and I can't remember the last time I actually checked the numbers, so I'll give me answer in the relative cost of other Pirate BS.
In the current form, with the 7/6/6 layout, I would put it's worth around that of the Rattlesnake. If I remember correctly, that's the low end of the spectrum. Placing a focus on the Logi side has made it a better ship, but it still feels like it's suffering from that lack of focus it had earlier on. I would like to here what a dedicated logistics pilot would say about it, but I think it's in a much better position than it was before.
If it was given a 7/5/7 layout, I'd could see it being worth more. I'd still pay less then a Nightmare or Mach, but I think it would have enough focus to pull it's weight.
I know I in a previous post I said the price was coming down due to the drone drops, but I was mistaken. The current price is due to supply and demand, and the drops are supposed to start with 1.3 (as I understand, I have been wrong before). Hopefully we'll start seeing prices drop more quickly when that happens. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 17:14:00 -
[2380] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:the ships need really some love, the same for astero and stratios too. The nestor costs 1.5 bil isk and is not better than a dominix. A dominix cost less than 10% of a nestor and does it better.
CCP didn't decide on the price, players decided what the SoE LP should be, and that's been the deciding factor for how expensive their ships would be. If you look at the ships, and not the costs, they're pretty balanced as Pirate faction ships.
Once the drone region drops start, and the BPCs aren't reliant on the LP store, I expect we'll see the price on the Nestor change drastically. |
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2973
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 17:50:00 -
[2381] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Once the drone region drops start, and the BPCs aren't reliant on the LP store, I expect we'll see the price on the Nestor change drastically. By 2/3's? That might be a tad optimistic... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
671
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 00:59:00 -
[2382] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:I was trying to figure out why people feel the Nestor absolutely needs a covert ops cloak in the other Nestor thread and, I admit, I still don't get it.
I know these threads have got gigantic, which is a good thing as it shows people are really interested and want this ship to mean something, but explainations get lost in this.
I would like to explain again why a covert cloak is not just desirable, but essential for this ship to operate in wormhole space, and why it is fatally flawed without one.
Firstly, a battleship without a bonus to remove the targeting delay after decloaking is actually the least powerful implementation of the covert ops cloak, It can suprise nothing, it takes so long to lock, anything can simply warp away.
Regarding the argument it can arrive and assign drones, any drone ship can do this, the cloak adds nothing. And if it is assigning drones to other ships THEY are your problem! And you certainly know they are there.
Now the reason why it is essential. The nearest analogy of cloaked ships in a wormhole is a second world war German Wolfpack. It travelled out of sight and attacked it's prey or crept unseen past defenders to reach it's hunting area.
They COULD NOT travel with a logistics boat trailing them on the surface as it betrayed the fleet leading to the destruction of the fleet.
The same applies to wormholes, there is no point a fleet of 5 cloaked tengus travelling across 4 WH systems to get to good sleeper sites or to prepare to attack a POS or mining fleet, if they are accompanied with an uncloaked, Great White Whale screaming on D Scan as it crawls across the system, HERE WE ARE KILL US!!!
So limited to home or +1 system only. What use is that! So fatally flawed will never find a home in WH space if incapable of warping cloaked. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2981
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:11:00 -
[2383] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Now the reason why it is essential. Too bad these legitimate please keep falling on deaf ears... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
671
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:17:00 -
[2384] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Now the reason why it is essential. Too bad these legitimate please keep falling on deaf ears...
The problem is those who do not live in wormholes do not understand the mechanics and understand that it simply is ridiculous to use it at all, without a covert ops cloak, and also do not realise that a battleship with a covert ops cloak is the LEAST powerful implementation of the technology, Far far more effective in combat terms when used on cruiser class or smaller, Now a covert ops cloak on a HIC is another matter, then they should be really afraid. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2981
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 03:05:00 -
[2385] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I'd pay a billion for THAT! Everyone would pay good money for ships that don't suck. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2983
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 06:49:00 -
[2386] - Quote
One thing I don't get with the Nestor: It is the slowest (velocity) battleship with the worst inertia, yet it has the lightest mass and the fastest warp speed at 2.5 AU/s. These seem at odds with each other... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1397
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:03:00 -
[2387] - Quote
That 2.5 AU/s is also a bit odd. With the lack of a cloak, one bonus that might have made the ship practical to use is a high warp speed, like 8 AU/s. +1 |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:21:00 -
[2388] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:One thing I don't get with the Nestor: It is the slowest (velocity) battleship with the worst inertia, yet it has the lightest mass and the fastest warp speed at 2.5 AU/s. These seem at odds with each other...
I think that it might have been previously designed by someone else, and brought back to life, unfortunately the stats seem to have been amended by someone who is overly concerned with the power of large ships, and applied restrictions to "dial it back".
Of course the opposite might also be true, and they are trying to blow life into a more conservative design .
Personally, i feel they are still being too cautious, while I imagine the meta of how the dominix was used has concerned them, that can always happen, there really is no way to predict, how things will be used and abused, there's just too many possibilities. Over cautious ship balance before launch just leads to dull, uninspired, and undesirable ships.
I agree it really does feel like manoeuvring a large white whale, you would expect it to feel more like a large battlecruiser,and the lightest mass, which would make it useful in wormholes, is unfortunately, like wheels on a fish, because without being able to warp cloaked it will never live there. So the idea, of wherever it was designed for, has apparently been lost in time, I like the astero and Stratios, even though the stratios is a little confused, and i think it has lost some of it's original purity of concept it is still a good ship, but the Nestor is just plain lost.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2987
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:04:00 -
[2389] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I agree it really does feel like manoeuvring a large white whale, you would expect it to feel more like a large battlecruiser,and the lightest mass, which would make it useful in wormholes, is unfortunately, like wheels on a fish, because without being able to warp cloaked it will never live there. Completely lost it with the 'wheels on a fish' analogy.
Quote:So the idea, of wherever it was designed for, has apparently been lost in time, I like the astero and Stratios, even though the stratios is a little confused, and i think it has lost some of it's original purity of concept it is still a good ship, but the Nestor is just plain lost. I haven't looked at the Astero and Stratios in detail to see where they stand in terms of velocity and inertia, but I would be really surprised if they fell near the bottom of the packGǪ The higher warp speed on the Nestor is effectively neutered by the abysmal inertia and align time. Velocity is one thing, but the inertia is just plain bizarre. How something as immense as a Vindicator could be substantially more maneuverable is beyond me - especially considering the low mass of the Nestor.
Quote:So where to go from here? Honestly? Scrap it and start over. You can't improve something that's fundamentally broken at the core. If the Nestor was fast and agile or featured a Covert Ops cloak - one could overlook the "glass cannon" aspect in terms of severe fitting limitations (low slots, CPU and grid), but as it currently stands - it's not only a "white whale" - it's a beached one at that. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
690
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 12:56:00 -
[2390] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: Now a covert ops cloak on a HIC is another matter, then they should be really afraid.
Allow me to introduce you to my friend, the stratios...
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Lilliana Stelles
1179
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 13:05:00 -
[2391] - Quote
The Nestor seems to have god awful powergrid and capacitor for what it's intended to do. Exactly what sort of lasers are you expected to put on it? You'd think a faction battleship would be able to run four or five tachyons but nope. Not a forum alt.-á |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 15:03:00 -
[2392] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:The Nestor seems to have god awful powergrid and capacitor for what it's intended to do. Exactly what sort of lasers are you expected to put on it? You'd think a faction battleship would be able to run four or five tachyons but nope.
I tried to fit a laser build at one point but gave up on it after a few tries, just like my attempt at making a hacking/analyzing fit. Since the Nestor doesn't have any speed or manuverability, it has almost no way to dictate distance and take advantage of the optimal range bonus. You could use a MJD but you're limited by the long cooldown, it's barely worth the effort. I've brought up this weakness before, but the ship has bigger issues elsewhere.
You have other options anyways, during my test builds I've been using hybrid drone/logistics builds. They offer more dynamic options in combat, and don't strain the cap you could be using to RR with. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2997
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:44:00 -
[2393] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:I tried to fit a laser build at one point but gave up on it after a few tries, just like my attempt at making a hacking/analyzing fit. Since the Nestor doesn't have any speed or manuverability, it has almost no way to dictate distance and take advantage of the optimal range bonus. You could use a MJD but you're limited by the long cooldown, it's barely worth the effort. I've brought up this weakness before, but the ship has bigger issues elsewhere.
You have other options anyways, during my test builds I've been using hybrid drone/logistics builds. They offer more dynamic options in combat, and don't strain the cap you could be using to RR with. Yes, but when one's Nestor build sucks even on paper... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
139
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 23:02:00 -
[2394] - Quote
This pirate Faction Battleship is an extremely expensive ship that is not very easy to acquire even through LPs.
That makes this ship something that should be special, however I do feel it does lack a great purpose for it to be used.
I would like to propose something special for this and possible future pirate faction Battleships by giving them something more.
Introduce: Integrated Ship Module
What does the ISM mean ?
For Instance when it concerns the SOE Nestor, that battleship is meant for exploration, and through eve lore, should have a high end sensor package that should out scan non pirate faction battleships.
This is already somewhat shown in the ships bonuses: 50% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength 10+ bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength
HOWEVER, I would like to see an ISM for the Nestor to be a Cargo Scanner and / or Ship Scanner that does not cost a module slot !
This ISM is a Utility module only that even under normal fitting requirements would have used very low CPU or Powergrid and Cap.
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
673
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:37:00 -
[2395] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote: Now a covert ops cloak on a HIC is another matter, then they should be really afraid.
Allow me to introduce you to my friend, the stratios... Yup they made a nice ship there, the astero is also a great example of getting it right, and yes the real power of a covert ops cloak lies with exactly this type of ship. On a battleship, it really is a different story, necessary to enable it to support these type of ships and cloaky t3s but really adds no real power to it's combat capabilities, people are somewhat confused, they are frightened of a whale where they should be watching out for the sharks and barracudas.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2999
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 03:02:00 -
[2396] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:[On a battleship, it really is a different story... Yes, yes it is... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:48:00 -
[2397] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Steph Livingston wrote:I was trying to figure out why people feel the Nestor absolutely needs a covert ops cloak in the other Nestor thread and, I admit, I still don't get it.
I know these threads have got gigantic, which is a good thing as it shows people are really interested and want this ship to mean something, but explainations get lost in this. I would like to explain again why a covert cloak is not just desirable, but essential for this ship to operate in wormhole space, and why it is fatally flawed without one. Firstly, a battleship without a bonus to remove the targeting delay after decloaking is actually the least powerful implementation of the covert ops cloak, It can suprise nothing, it takes so long to lock, anything can simply warp away. Regarding the argument it can arrive and assign drones, any drone ship can do this, the cloak adds nothing. And if it is assigning drones to other ships THEY are your problem! And you certainly know they are there. Now the reason why it is essential. The nearest analogy of cloaked ships in a wormhole is a second world war German Wolfpack. It travelled out of sight and attacked it's prey or crept unseen past defenders to reach it's hunting area. They COULD NOT travel with a logistics boat trailing them on the surface as it betrayed the fleet leading to the destruction of the fleet. The same applies to wormholes, there is no point a fleet of 5 cloaked tengus travelling across 4 WH systems to get to good sleeper sites or to prepare to attack a POS or mining fleet, if they are accompanied with an uncloaked, Great White Whale screaming on D Scan as it crawls across the system, HERE WE ARE KILL US!!! So limited to home or +1 system only. What use is that! So fatally flawed will never find a home in WH space if incapable of warping cloaked.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
869
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:00:00 -
[2398] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
So in short as it stands, even though CCP rise has specifically said that the nestor will be popular in wormholes, he is, in this case totally and completely wrong, sorry you can't get it right, every time, first time. I have faith that he is listening though, so there is still hope.
As it stands Nestor isn't just unpopular in holes.
Its not popular at all. Its not a good ship, there is nothing about it that earn the pirate battleship title. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3010
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:11:00 -
[2399] - Quote
Onictus wrote:As it stands Nestor isn't just unpopular in holes. Its not popular at all. Its not a good ship, there is nothing about it that earn the pirate battleship title. That pretty much sums it up. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:38:00 -
[2400] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Onictus wrote:As it stands Nestor isn't just unpopular in holes. Its not popular at all. Its not a good ship, there is nothing about it that earn the pirate battleship title. That pretty much sums it up.
As i said above if any of the detractors who think that it's home isn't in wormhole space (and no ability to warp cloaked guarantees that) have an idea as to just where it belongs instead, would be kind enough to share that insight, those who are about to lose well over a billion per ship would love to know and maybe even give them a commission!
What no replies?
Looks like nowhere then, that's a real pity.
Still time for CCP Rise to read all the arguments on all the threads, and realise that this is going nowhere fast. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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