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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80715
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 16:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.
No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive.
I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's.
Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Pepper Solette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's ok Samael, i got your back bro.
http://tinypic.com/r/dgktpi/5 |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Samael Pserad wrote: The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.
No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive. I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's. Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance.
I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen. |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play
The other races seemed more evil. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:Slade Trillgon wrote:I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play The other races seemed more evil.
The slaves seemed more evil then the en-slavers.
I said it before.
Troll. |
Dangirdas Bachir
Direct Support Initiative
750
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:1. CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. A human being puts out about 80 watts sustained power for external at the investment of about 1200 Watts for the sustaining of life. That's an efficiency of less than 10%. Because there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery, there's no reason to believe that the attribution of slavery to the one theocracy in the game is anything other than a childish atheist's CCCP straw man. CCP's response: "Yes, the Amarr were capable of harnessing energy to bend space-time for faster than light travel, but they really needed Minmatar slaves to thresh wheat by hand because religion, obviously." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_levelSaying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying the Caldari plow their fields with oxen. Obviously, this wouldn't happen because, well, obviously, oxen are inefficient, slow, and expensive compared to the technological capacity of the society. 2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them. 3. Unfriendly players. CCP called it the "Eve Gate" (Eve, through whom all evil, mythologically, entered the world) because I'm sure they anticipated the kind of douchey people that would take over the game. It'd be fun if some of the major alliances were interested in negotiation or developing rules for interaction in territory they control or something. For example, in any realistic political entity, nearly no government is going to just shoot people on site for no reason whatsoever - that, of course, is not Eve. There's no contacting the pilot to arrange terms for safe passage or enforcement of rules by major null and low-sec alliances - it's just shoot whatever is neutral because you can. It's lame and takes out the factor of politics/economics/security enforcement etc. that is supposed to be present in space trading games. I've met about three-five people in five months of playing who were actually friendly and one of them I gave my billions of space stuff to. 4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy. 5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him. 1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible.
2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years.
3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing.
4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player.
5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play. EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H |
Samoth Egnoled
28776
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Posted - 2013.12.05 17:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
So you wanna live in paradise..? Ego Sum Mortem Incarnatum - I Am Death Incarnate |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80756
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen.
Magic Mushrooms are bad for you, m'kay ? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dangirdas Bachir wrote: 1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible. 2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years. 3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing. 4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player. 5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play.
1. But the implication CCP is making is clear: religion, particularly Christianity = slavery. Therefore, Martin Luther King Jr. was an advocate of slavery, as was Harriet Beecher Stowe or Levi Coffin...
2. No, it just makes it unappealing to play because there's no plateau which means that your character will always be inferior to a vast majority of other players. People play games because they like mobility - there's no mobility with a system that gives extreme advantages to people who have played for ten years and no real hope for newer players to catch up.
3. Yep, I suppose I just suck at socializing. The massive amount of hostile comments on the message boards is clearly indicative of the amount of douchebags in game and the fact that a large portion of new players just hang out in high sec because they don't really have a choice to go anywhere else because it's oh so fun PvP to gank T1 frigates in your squad of T2 cruisers or whatever. Realistic would be that there were some alliances with codes of honor or something along those lines. I.E. - you're free to roam their null space until you commit hostile acts or something. As it is, just shooting anything neutral that gets near you is just lame.
4. I'm not.
5. I don't know what you mean. I sat there and looked at how long it would take to be particularly effective in combat and I thought: "do I really want to spend the next year just running data and combat sites or mining while dodging everything and never getting the satisfaction of payback?" And, I arrived at the conclusion, no, I really don't.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
80756
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
"I've been to Paradise....but I've never been to me !" "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
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Samael Pserad
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 18:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Like I said: capitalists are childish, superficial bigots. His songs are something you'd expect to be popular in Caldari or Gallente cultures - which is why I wouldn't choose those.
Christianity and Judaism, however, don't think that the poor are irrelevant and worthless, like the Caldari and Gallente would think, since you brought up Tim Minchen's song about sodomy and suicide bombing - and because CCP like appropriating Jewish symbolism for their purposes:
"This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." - - Ezekiel 16:49 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14753
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 18:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote: Christianity and Judaism, however, don't think that the poor are irrelevant and worthless
Tell that to the millions living in abject poverty in so called christian countries while the higher echelons of the church do a Scrooge Mcduck in the oodles of filthy lucre they've extorted and accumulated over the centuries. Religion is about power and money, it's basically a corporation wrapped up in mumbojumbo and fantasy. It's also been the cause of pretty much every major war since before the middle ages.
With reference to machines vs salves for industrial use, machines have a greater initial purchase value than a slave, they also require skilled operators, and maintenance when they break. Slaves on the other hand are pretty much disposable, you work them until they drop, on a subsistence diet if they're lucky and you want them to breed, then you put them out of its misery and enslave another. A prime example of the economics of slavery occurred during the 20th Century, both Japan and Germany used human beings as slaves during WWII, primarily because they were of a different colour, nationality or religion. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
498
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Most subtle beginning to a reigious troll I've ever seen. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4532
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
I guess my point got glossed over and ignored by the OP. must have made too much sense. =) |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Magic Mushrooms are bad for you, m'kay ?
They are not that bad for you
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 19:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I'll think you'll find religion is very much a taboo subject on most forums because of the heated arguments it causes, as such I'm surprised nobody has brought this thread to the attention of the ISDs.
Typically, in the past, we have been able to have very long discussions about politics and religion in OOPE, the inevitably get locked, but they have been known to last into 10+ pages with little angst. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4532
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 20:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads. |
Tollen Gallen
Xionworld
3785
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
I like Cheese. Zimmy Zeta -I f*cking love martinis.the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14754
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tollen Gallen wrote:I like Cheese. Soft or hard cheeses? Personally I prefer a nice bit of Mature Cheddar, none of that stuff with the blue bits in. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1566
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 22:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
What the? Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
764
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 05:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads.
Don't worry. I started to pick up threads on this section too. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1064
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 12:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:We are simply more civilized and refined than those reactionary General Discussion toads. Don't worry. I started to pick up threads on this section too.
There goes the last bastion of sanity in this dark, cold and harsh Universe
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Tweek Etimua
Aideron Robotics
15
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 23:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
As a religious person I'd like to say that I don't think that CCP meant that all religions cause problems or do stupid things (although some have, can and do). They meant that the Amar's does.
Secondly Posting why your leaving is just asking for trolls. Eve is harsh...so are it's forums. I wouldn't expect any thing other than troll posts and mocking words. |
Marie Hartinez
Aries Munitions and Defense Market and Contract PVP
444
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 07:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't know about others, but I never considered the Amarr as "Christan".
Since when does monotheistic mean "Christan"?. Just means the believe in one god, or the oneness of a god.
The Amarr do not use slave labor because it is cheap or efficient. They use slavery as a lesson or learning tool to bring people back into the fold of their faith.
If the OP has his panties in such a bunch over lore about a fictions race in a game, then his leaving will only better this game.
Great, now I feel all dirty for feeding a troll. Must be the alcohol in me doing all the talking. Surrender is still your slightly less painful option. |
Reiisha
Evolution
441
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 13:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Samael Pserad wrote:2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them.
4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy.
5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him.
So because you don't understand what the game is about you want to change it?
That's like complaining about the complexity of chess and demanding the rules be changed so it's more like checkers.
New players are perfectly capable of contributing if they're willing to a) lean and b) specialize. Veterans have literally no real advantage other than being able to use more stuff. There really is no point in 'catching up' unless you only care about SP, which are, on their own, completely useless.
I've never heard of a 50m sp character with 45m sp in science somehow being better than a 15m sp character with all 15m in combat skills. That's not even counting actual playing experience.
Samael Pserad wrote:Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities
You should really look up the word 'generalization'. From the overall posts you're making it's probably a term you're not familiar with.
Of course, ironically i'm reinforcing the negative stereotype you seem to have formed about EVE players, though i don't think either of us will care about that.
Your other points are, by any means, matters of luck, taste and persistence.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
lol
*throws out some insulting comments about OP being a "waa waa"*
*mocks OP harshly*
Billions... five months? You must have spent a lot of RL money on Plexes or something.
Note: EvE is not about being able to beat up everyone in the entire galaxy. As in real life there is always going to be someone bigger and meaner than you. The skill system in EvE is generally realistic, and it is far superior to stupid grinding.
I can have just as much fun with a one day old noob character as a 10 year old character. It is all about choices and perspective. One time I made 2-300 million ISK with a week old character while sitting in station in my shuttle. No I won't tell you how. haha :)
Haz your stuff? Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm glad EvE isn't a politically correct love nest for tolerant hippies who love one another with sunshine and rainbows. Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
53
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 19:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Had a thought but forgot. Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3762
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 03:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'll address the skillpoints and "always being behind" whine because I have addressed this concern in the past and have a standard response for it.
The skill and ship class system is ingeniously designed such that newbies CAN compete while providing veteran players with perks that give an edge here and there... but nothing so brokenly overpowered that a newbie has no chance.
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills (5 to 7 days for frigate level 5? Try getting cruiser to level 5. Or Battlecruiser. Or battleship. Those are 30+ day skills. Same applies for all their respective weapon systems too).
- Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time. Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills. Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.
- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 (which takes a fraction of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5), you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5 (which is something that can be easily overcome with the right module or tactic).
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (again, because it's faster).
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another. Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor power every 24 seconds... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor from the battleship every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not confer a player "I WIN" abilities. They simply give a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost. Ex: A group of two or three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 thousand to 1 million ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 to 100 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.
tl;dr... - the point of the skill system is to force you to learn the game's mechanics and nuances in cheaper equipment and ships... that way when you DO gain access to more expensive equipment and ships, you know HOW to use them properly (and won't cry as much when they die).
- you DO NOT NEED to have level 5 in any specific skill to be competitive. Having level 5 in a skill is simply an edge (exception: when it is required for something else).
- more SP or "age" is not indicative of a pilot's ability. It just means that the pilot may or may not have more options in what he/she can do.
- no one ship is superior to everything in the game. Even Titans, the largest ship in the game, has an Achilles heel; smaller ships. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 11:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Holy crap! Just quit already. |
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