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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.03.03 12:57:00 -
[1]
Ok in order to help some players out. There was a big discussion on Hacs vs Battleships.
Now me personaly with my experience know that most of my hac's can't stand a chance solo to a decent pvp battleship + pilot. My little Vagabond with be eaten by heavy nos and all types of mean battleship stuff. Sometimes however I can eat a battleship pretty easy. Like you know when they're NPCing or there is 5 of me in hacs too haha.
So the question was "Can Hacs always smack battleships solo". TO my suprize a lot of people said yes. That and followed up with "Hacs can fit heavy nos". So what do you think if you're a hac pilot who pvp's. Do you fear a pvp pilot in a battleship or do you lay the smackdown on all solo battleship engagements you do?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:01:00 -
[2]
I have never come across a HAC that could even dint my battleships let alone kill it 1v1, even when I am in PvE gear. I donÆt believe even a HABC could hurt a decently setup battleship.
There are plenty of HACÆs that can last against battleships, but those matchÆs end up a draw as the HAC cannot kill the BS.
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:06:00 -
[3]
What Pottsey said.
Owner of both a Dominix and an Eos so speaking form a point of some considerable knowledge.
Justice 
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 03/03/2006 13:06:52
I'd be very confident of taking on 3 or 4 HAC in my Dominix at once.
And still winning.
HAC's are totally over-rated and hurt too much when you lose one.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:10:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Pottsey
I have never come across a HAC that could even dint my battleships let alone kill it 1v1, even when I am in PvE gear. I donÆt believe even a HABC could hurt a decently setup battleship.
There are plenty of HACÆs that can last against battleships, but those matchÆs end up a draw as the HAC cannot kill the BS.
QTF. there is no hac in game that could beat my BS 1vs1. AN ishtar with ECM may have a chance but even then i think id won most times.
HABC are different, they are able to do a lot more damage and take a bit more, i would think a good HABC vs BS would be a very very close fight [assumeing no ecm is used, if it is then the HABC doesnt have a chance]
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:12:00 -
[6]
Very true indeed. I have no dout in my mind any solo pvp setup battleship would kill me in my hac. Sofar it seems going battleship is more cost effeciant to use in PVP other than the suggested HAC that was argued for pvp over a battleship. I still have no clue why 80% of the people keep saying hacs eat battleship even solo or even in some cases 3 on 1. It's like saying my assault frigate can push out enough DPS to kill a zealot tank. Which is not happening :P
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Exogene
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:16:00 -
[7]
I have seen, pre-RMR, a Vagabond tanking 3 battleships and a couple of BCs (pvp). He managed to kill a BC before he had to warp out, he did make it out alive and didn't get caught. 
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Kaleeb
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:21:00 -
[8]
Well it depends on setups as all fights do. E.g a blasterthron with no heavy nos being orbited by a HAC at 18km or so is going to die unless it can jump through gate etc. Same as a tempest/apoc/thron with beams/rails/howlies will die to a close range HAC.
HAC's have their uses e.g small wolf packs roaming hostile space, but bs's are far more useful in a standup fight.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:22:00 -
[9]
Yet they still sell for 150+ mill (The gallente HACS)
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Numskull
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:26:00 -
[10]
Well it's a bit of a simplistic question really, but basically it depends on what BS and what HAC.
But yes, a HAC can easily take out a BS. As a poster above mentioned there are lots of factors, in particular I'd say EW and range. Some of the HACs can now be insane snipers, and if you're setup for close range (e.g. a pulse apoc) then you can be screwed.
Personally I'd always prefer a HAC for PVP than a BS, because whereas a HAC can't always take out a BS, it is by far the most versatile PVP ship class IMHO. Remember as well, that a HAC warping into a battleship that it can't fight will most likely get out in time. A BS warping into a HAC that it can't beat will most likely not be able to warp out again, so the HAC is the preferable for solo IMHO.
So can a HAC always down a BS? No
Can a BS always down a HAC? No
Can a HAC stand a chance of downing a BS? Absolutely.
Which ship would I prefer for solo PVP? HAC
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Romulus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:31:00 -
[11]
There is no definitive answer to this.
It really depends on too much. Not too long ago a corp mate took down a Mach in an ishtar. And thats by no means the first or last solo hac v bs kill ill see.
Hacs tend to be setup pretty similar regardless of what there doing. BS are very dependant.My solo BS fit is nothing like my Fleet. And my small gang is nothing like the other 2.
Solo a Hac wouldnt worry me so much. If i got caught in my fleet setup alone, id pretty much be toast.
On any given sunday. Most ships can win against most ships. IIRC, a Taranis also solo killed a bs not too long ago on our KB. Really does depend what is fitted.
Niether ship will ever replace the other. They both serve purposes. I hate bs,but i need ot fly them sometimes.
A hac gang can roam quite quickly,causing massive damage.
A bs gang is somewhat slower.
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Slaphead
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:34:00 -
[12]
Famine,
I shall keep my post civil, no matter how uncivil the contributions you made to this discussion using an alt in noob corp chat.
The comment you made that many disagreed with was "[ 2006.03.03 12:25:30 ] Pestilence Aligher'ri > BS can smack any hac solo". You claimed that any BS can take out any HAC. This is simply untrue and inaccurate. As highlighted above, it's much more complicated than that.
I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted.
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Techyon
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:34:00 -
[13]
It depends entirely upon the circumstances.
A properly setup close range BS will kill a hac in any engagement unless the hac is specificly equiped with racial ecm or something.
There are HACs with a high enough damage output to break a BS tank(dual L rep for example) but they'll take some time to do it and are quite vulnerable to things like drones, nos and webbers. Not much HAC's can really take BS firepower straight in the face, they'll die miserably most of the time. That's because the resistances are nice but most hacs just don't have the amount of armor/shield nor the rep capacity to really tank serious dmg.
Like the guy somewhere above me said... it all depends on fittings.
HACs can kill bs solo if the fittin is in the HACs advantage or they can evade being
pinned down and crushed.
HACs are better for a support role... they have quite some firepower and can tip a fight to your advantage quickly if used right.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:37:00 -
[14]
If you don't have nos and the HAC can shoot past 15km, there's a damn good chance the BS will die, except if against a dominix (omgdrones) and raven (omgt2cruise).
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StraWDog
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Posted - 2006.03.03 13:58:00 -
[15]
I cant understand why everyone say that a gang of HACS is a fast or at least faster moving gang that roams etc etc the HACS except from vagabond move like **** hte AF are moving like cripled.
A hac is not MUCH faster and more agile than a bs both are slow ships the hacs are a bit more agile and can warp a bit quicker but for no reason they are not a fast agile unit. with around 170m/s where a bs has round 140m/s i would not refer to hacs as much faster than a bs 
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sarmaul
If you don't have nos and the HAC can shoot past 15km, there's a damn good chance the BS will die, except if against a dominix (omgdrones) and raven (omgt2cruise).
That sums it up pretty well.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: StraWDog
I cant understand why everyone say that a gang of HACS is a fast or at least faster moving gang that roams etc etc the HACS except from vagabond move like **** hte AF are moving like cripled.
A hac is not MUCH faster and more agile than a bs both are slow ships the hacs are a bit more agile and can warp a bit quicker but for no reason they are not a fast agile unit. with around 170m/s where a bs has round 140m/s i would not refer to hacs as much faster than a bs
Vagabond goes over 3km/s on a mwd, deimos 1800m/s while a megathron goes 1200 or so. They warp way way faster, and turn on a dime compaired to BS.
AFs are slow compaired to frigs, HACs aren't compaired to cruisers.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
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The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: StraWDog
I cant understand why everyone say that a gang of HACS is a fast or at least faster moving gang that roams etc etc the HACS except from vagabond move like **** hte AF are moving like cripled.
A hac is not MUCH faster and more agile than a bs both are slow ships the hacs are a bit more agile and can warp a bit quicker but for no reason they are not a fast agile unit. with around 170m/s where a bs has round 140m/s i would not refer to hacs as much faster than a bs
because very few battleships have setups that demand the use of an afterburner or mwd, while on a HAC they are pretty much compulsory. go on a hac raid with no instas and compare it to a BS raid with no instas :)
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Skyblue
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: StraWDog
I cant understand why everyone say that a gang of HACS is a fast or at least faster moving gang that roams etc etc the HACS except from vagabond move like **** hte AF are moving like cripled.
A hac is not MUCH faster and more agile than a bs both are slow ships the hacs are a bit more agile and can warp a bit quicker but for no reason they are not a fast agile unit. with around 170m/s where a bs has round 140m/s i would not refer to hacs as much faster than a bs
Vagabond goes over 3km/s on a mwd, deimos 1800m/s while a megathron goes 1200 or so. They warp way way faster, and turn on a dime compaired to BS.
AFs are slow compaired to frigs, HACs aren't compaired to cruisers.
vagabond goes about 2700m/s with domination mwd without nanos
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Tredge
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:17:00 -
[20]
Ok I'm fairly new to the game but I've studied HAC's vs Battleships with quickfit extensively......Disclaimer: no substitute for real battles.
Most of you have listed NOS as the HAC killer.....but setting up a HAC vulnerable to Nos when fighting a Battleship is suicide isnt it?
I'm supprised at Pottsey esp with her preference for passive shield tank setups...I would have thought she would be all over the ishtar as the battleship killer :)
From testing, the ishtar passive shield tanked (so that it doesnt depend on cap at all) vastly out-tanks a dominix.
With its supperior speed, tanking, and similar dps with drones it should always win against anything other than an ecm ship which I still doubt has the 1vs1 dps to kill it.
Pottsey please educate me :) And I'd be very curious to see your current domi set-up.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Skyblue
vagabond goes about 2700m/s with domination mwd without nanos
3095m/s according to quickfit.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tredge
Ok I'm fairly new to the game but I've studied HAC's vs Battleships with quickfit extensively......Disclaimer: no substitute for real battles.
Most of you have listed NOS as the HAC killer.....but setting up a HAC vulnerable to Nos when fighting a Battleship is suicide isnt it?
I'm supprised at Pottsey esp with her preference for passive shield tank setups...I would have thought she would be all over the ishtar as the battleship killer :)
From testing, the ishtar passive shield tanked (so that it doesnt depend on cap at all) vastly out-tanks a dominix.
With its supperior speed, tanking, and similar dps with drones it should always win against anything other than an ecm ship which I still doubt has the 1vs1 dps to kill it.
Pottsey please educate me :) And I'd be very curious to see your current domi set-up.
the thing is, there are exactly 2 hacs that can be setup to be "immune" to NOS: passive ishtar and passive cerb. every other hac needs cap for it's primary weapons systems. A passive-tanked vagabond is the next-best thing, but it still needs cap for it's guns.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:20:00 -
[23]
To be honest both ships have their roles and how effective one is really comes down to the ships and setups, pilots skills and your positioning on the battlefield.
Right now I feel the situation between HACS and BS are very good and well balanced. Both have their roles in pvp with good and bad points.
Please please please devs, don't release a heavy assault battleships that's just a BS version of the HAC, despite the fact it will cost alot (not a major issue for some people these days) it will be a 1 man "omgwtfbbq" mobile and through the balance completely off.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:23:00 -
[24]
WTB: Deimos setup that doesn't need cap! 10isk
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The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:45:00 -
[25]
One issue everyone seems to be glossing over like it doesnt matter (but it really DOES):
Lose a HAC and you lose over 100m ISK.
Lose a BS and you just lose the insurance money.
Thats why a BS wins every time in PvP, for me at least. I don't care how rich people claim to be, no PvPer is going to be able to sustain HAC losses, but quite a few could sustain BS losses. I know I can and I'm by no means rich.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Butter Dog
One issue everyone seems to be glossing over like it doesnt matter (but it really DOES):
Lose a HAC and you lose over 100m ISK.
Lose a BS and you just lose the insurance money.
Thats why a BS wins every time in PvP, for me at least. I don't care how rich people claim to be, no PvPer is going to be able to sustain HAC losses, but quite a few could sustain BS losses. I know I can and I'm by no means rich.
unless your alliance sells them cheap and you can pick them up for just over the base price.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.03.03 14:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 03/03/2006 15:03:18
Originally by: Slaphead
Famine,
I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted.
I just want to clarify
Slaphead > HAC's can fit heavy nos
So if you say stuff like this then you really shouldn't have any play in the convo or anything pvp related. On a serious note, pilots make the ship. So yeah HAC can defeat a battleship however, Battleships do have the upper hand and should have NO problem defeating any hac. Even with common pvp setups.
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 03/03/2006 15:03:18
Originally by: Slaphead
Famine,
I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted.
I just want to clarify
Slaphead > HAC's can fit heavy nos
So if you say stuff like this then you really shouldn't have any play in the convo or anything pvp related. On a serious note, pilots make the ship. So yeah HAC can defeat a battleship however, Battleships do have the upper hand and should have NO problem defeating any hac. Even with common pvp setups.
I agree with what the OP just said. Slaphead, it would take a truly TERRIBLE battleship pilot to lose to a single HAC when in a standard PvP fitting.
In fact I took down a HAC the other day while tanking the rest of his 8 man gang.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:25:00 -
[29]
yepyep, HAC's don't suck though. Very good ships that can do a lot of things as a wingman to a battleship. Just not as much as everyone thinks. I would rather just fly a cruiser instead of playing that insane price of a HAC plus fittings. I think that pretty much summed it up though.
Battleships are a good way to go still. Training them up and using them in pvp is still good on your wallet in most cases now a days. So to all the new pilots who are being told to skip battleship and do all HAC. Don't listen. HAC's are just another toy to play with that can do a number of great things but not something you want to rush into first.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gronsak
stuff
omg PH are allowed to fly hacs now?!?! 
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Gronsak
stuff
omg PH are allowed to fly hacs now?!?!
1. im not in ph anymore
2. i would always perfer my blasterthron over my deimos becasue it does more damage and can tank more.
3. i would always perfer my domi over my ishtar, it hurts morre via nos and tanks better [although its a close one]
4. ive always had hacs since they came out, ishtars, deimos, zealots, i just never use them in pvp or npcing cos they pretty much suck vs my BS
5. a lot of PH members got HAC/Recons as gifts recently but still we perfer the close range BS [torp ravens, AC tempest, Blastherthrons, nos DOMIs.]
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.03.03 15:55:00 -
[32]
i have killed a Raven a tempest and a Apoc in my Sacrilege pre patch took a bloody long time but i got em.
So its definetly possible. they were all npc'ers tho
No chance really against an adept pvp battleship and quite rightly so imho.
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Tomsudy
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kaleeb
Well it depends on setups as all fights do. E.g a blasterthron with no heavy nos being orbited by a HAC at 18km or so is going to die unless it can jump through gate etc. Same as a tempest/apoc/thron with beams/rails/howlies will die to a close range HAC.
HAC's have their uses e.g small wolf packs roaming hostile space, but bs's are far more useful in a standup fight.
i doubt they can even beat a em with a long range setup on. i got caught out by a zealot once after he warped away from a station then warped back at 100km about 15km away (noobish thing to stick around i know) he sat there attacking me i had 1 large armour rep on no hardeners and a full set of tachs, he managed to get inside my opt and he still couldnt break my tank, in the end i lanched my drones and he warped.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: kessah
sig
I see the pixel art is going well :)
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:23:00 -
[35]
I agree with the fatc an HAC wont kill evry bs coming trough his way.
But stick to One thing HAC are most Old and well fitted player when there is still noobs in raven or poc.
Yeah i wont kill a BS on my EAGLE its not mean to I will give him a hard time but there is no way he can take me out in any combat i choose to do (important here the choice ^^ not talking about a blasteron or torp raven coming at 15km...)
I will just fire from 200km as im supposed to do, still be firing at 60km... then just warp out when the bs come to cloose from scrambling range...
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Laythun
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tomsudy
Originally by: Kaleeb
Well it depends on setups as all fights do. E.g a blasterthron with no heavy nos being orbited by a HAC at 18km or so is going to die unless it can jump through gate etc. Same as a tempest/apoc/thron with beams/rails/howlies will die to a close range HAC.
HAC's have their uses e.g small wolf packs roaming hostile space, but bs's are far more useful in a standup fight.
i doubt they can even beat a em with a long range setup on. i got caught out by a zealot once after he warped away from a station then warped back at 100km about 15km away (noobish thing to stick around i know) he sat there attacking me i had 1 large armour rep on no hardeners and a full set of tachs, he managed to get inside my opt and he still couldnt break my tank, in the end i lanched my drones and he warped.
then this HAC pilot was a noob, under your range and with heavy pulse II'S ( or even focused) he should have easily broke a 1 lrg rep tank
Stupid ISD you messed up my sig. i'd already changed it to the right size. Leave it alone ffs
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R31D
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Posted - 2006.03.03 16:35:00 -
[37]
I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 17:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: R31D
I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems
did the zealot use his massive optimal range bonus or did he get inside your web range?
tbh there are too many idiots flying hacs that use the same techniques vs other hacs/cruisers/friggies on battleships and get shot to pieces.
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Trefnis
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Posted - 2006.03.03 18:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: R31D
I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems
did the zealot use his massive optimal range bonus or did he get inside your web range?
tbh there are too many idiots flying hacs that use the same techniques vs other hacs/cruisers/friggies on battleships and get shot to pieces.
i know mega is not as versatile as tempest which i fly but if hac is out of 20km feel free to shoot me, i warp away if i want, if he try to keep 13-18km to scramble he is dead if alone (no frig buddy webbing me)
with 3 web drones u can even catch vaga if u have mwd before he realise what is going on, if he try to mwd out fast enough not to get in 10km web range he fly in straight line and u can easli hit him for big hits (sig)
bottom line is, u can fit bs for solo and win all fights vs hac, but u cant fit hac to win all fights vs solo pvp fitted bs
as for deep 0.0 in wolf packs.. nothing beats 4-5 vagas roamin around :)
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.03.03 19:34:00 -
[40]
Same argument can be made for cruisers vs AFs... T1 cruisers are cheaper and will hand it to an AF unless there is a serious skills mismatch between pilots.
Ison's notches |
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.03 19:35:00 -
[41]
It's FUN to fly hacs.But I doubt I buy another one until nosses are fixed.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.03.03 19:40:00 -
[42]
why should they fix nosses, they work fine...
Ison's notches |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
why should they fix nosses, they work fine...
They have a disproportionate impact on < BS sized ships for combat at < 20km. I think the basic solution involves capping the amount of cap as a PERCENTAGE they can take from a non BS sized capacitor per cycle. The purpose is to allow combat to resolve itself by allowing a < BS sized capacitor at least three cycles(36 seconds) before it's depleted or near depleted.
All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way).
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Yaro
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:16:00 -
[44]
Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Yaro
Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ?
because the majority only have 3 mid slots: mwd/ab, web, scram
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:19:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Yaro
Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ?
I will grant that an injector helps a little. But you really have to look at the numbers over the course of 3 to 4 cycles of the nos. And then compare that to what an injector will "give back." It's just not enough under alot of situations vs. BS sized ships with heavy nosses and neuts.
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Leilani Solaris
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:20:00 -
[47]
it toally depends on what hac it is and what battleship... i wouldn't send my Zealot anywhere near a nossing domi, but i'd go for a mega or a apoc... also depends on the setup's of each..
All depends on circumstances, fittings, and skill levels of the pilots..
I haven't got a new sig yet :)
http://triad.eve-killboard.net/
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Yaro
Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ?
because the majority only have 3 mid slots: mwd/ab, web, scram
Also this is true. Look at the munin for example.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Leilani Solaris
it toally depends on what hac it is and what battleship... i wouldn't send my Zealot anywhere near a nossing domi, but i'd go for a mega or a apoc... also depends on the setup's of each..
All depends on circumstances, fittings, and skill levels of the pilots..
yeah, you'll find noob apoc pilots in npc fitted ships that don't pose a threat to your cap like differently setup pvp oriented apocs. But I'm a pirate and alot of antipirates I come across in apocs love teh vamp setup because they know that as a pirate I like to bring it with vagas, other fast movers, or ravens. All of which are especially vulnerable cap wise. Although the Raven with injector setup can cover most circumstances and will good skills can skewer those "Raven killer apoc" setups.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:30:00 -
[50]
I've been saying this forever.
HACs are expensive toys. Pimpmobiles for the veterans, essentially.
I'll take a BS in PVP over a HAC any day.
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.03.03 20:37:00 -
[51]
Cumilla, you are lobbying because you want to have an easier time killing battleships solo with your HAC... Its not very objective. Hacs are balanced, they serve their purpose well... You want to be able to kill a bs by yourself in a smaller ship.
Its still possible, but it shouldn't be a given.
A bs should be able to use its tremendous power core to take out a hac's any time... its one of two defenses that a turreted bs has against short range HACS.
Ison's notches |
Zed Nash
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Posted - 2006.03.03 21:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cummilla
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
why should they fix nosses, they work fine...
All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way).
If an individual sets up their ships strictly for cap warfare, ie all NOSes in the highs, then your cap should be gone, and quickly.
Working as intended, move along.............
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Specture
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Posted - 2006.03.03 21:25:00 -
[53]
lol, when will you all realize that it's the pilot that is flying the ship and not the ship itself. I have seen zealots win against domis becuase they are smart and orbit at 28km with a domi disruptor and can tank drones. Originally by: pottsey
have never come across a HAC that could even dint my battleships let alone kill it 1v1, even when I am in PvE gear. I donÆt believe even a HABC could hurt a decently setup battleship.
lool please, I havn't even seen you in the war and I would like you to bring your battleship out and see how long it can last against a zealot or anyother hac. Also not all HACs are so supseptible to nos. For instance like I had read a HAC with a medium cap injector and 800 charges can easily last long enough to kill a battleship. Also a vagabond/cerebus/ishtar don't really need cap to fire it's guns. The vagabond (if the pilot is good) doesn't even need a tank just the large sheild boosters. Sacriledge is good in a group though, and munin, well idk about that. Deimos/Zealot are probably the most damageing of HACs. Now you
say
Originally by: butter dog
I'd be very confident of taking on 3 or 4 HAC in my Dominix at once.
And still winning.
ahhahahahahahahahahahha no comment except gleam + 3 zealots with about a DPS of 560 would make you one crispy critter. Also 3 deimos with void? make you even crispier. Oh wait you will nos them? ha you won't even last 2-3 cycles.
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Evil Thug
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Posted - 2006.03.03 23:25:00 -
[54]
Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win.
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Logged in a system, next to you =) |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.03 23:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Evil Thug
Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win.
which is why I never like shield tanking it - 3 spare mods for ewar goodies
______________________________________________
Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. By the way I want to have your babies --Jorauk |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.04 00:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
Cumilla, you are lobbying because you want to have an easier time killing battleships solo with your HAC... Its not very objective. Hacs are balanced, they serve their purpose well... You want to be able to kill a bs by yourself in a smaller ship.
Its still possible, but it shouldn't be a given.
A bs should be able to use its tremendous power core to take out a hac's any time... its one of two defenses that a turreted bs has against short range HACS.
Not exactly Isonkon. Losing per se doesn't bother me. I get outguessed and outskilled and I make a bad choice every so often and I lose because of it. That I expect.
What I don't like to see is a module in the game that so sways combat that there is virtually a nonexistant window for good choice and tactics because nosses do what they do to hacs in so many situations.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.04 00:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Zed Nash
Originally by: Cummilla
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
why should they fix nosses, they work fine...
All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way).
If an individual sets up their ships strictly for cap warfare, ie all NOSes in the highs, then your cap should be gone, and quickly.
Working as intended, move along.............
That is fine I guess. What it means is that if "nosses are fine" as is, then I will choose not to use them
(hacs) because they have critical weaknesses in the cap dept that surface in a manner where no amount of skill or setup can overcome them.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2006.03.04 00:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Evil Thug
Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win.
which is why I never like shield tanking it - 3 spare mods for ewar goodies
Does the tracking module expend cap? heh
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2006.03.04 00:47:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Sky Hunter on 04/03/2006 00:47:17
Oh god...another 'lets compare!' thread..
It usually leads nowhere but into 20 page back-&-forth snowball throwing....
edit: typos
-=-
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Slaphead
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Posted - 2006.03.04 05:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 03/03/2006 15:03:18
Originally by: Slaphead
Famine,
I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted.
I just want to clarify
Slaphead > HAC's can fit heavy nos
So if you say stuff like this then you really shouldn't have any play in the convo or anything pvp related. On a serious note, pilots make the ship. So yeah HAC can defeat a battleship however, Battleships do have the upper hand and should have NO problem defeating any hac. Even with common pvp setups.
Sigh. Well as I said I hoped we could keep things civil, but I guess you're not capable.
We were making the point that, theoretically, a HAC can fit a heavy nos. I invite you to visit the offline ship fitter, and show yourself that you can easily fit a heavy nos on, say, a zealot with a few RCUs. 3 RCUs and decent skills are all that is required.
Would any sane player do it? No, but the point was made at the time that this was hypothetical.
So do a little researche before you show your lack of knowledge. I only joined in your 'debate' because it struck me at the time that it was rather depressing to see an 'older' player smacktalking and showing off to a noob channel that kept asking you to be quiet.
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Slaphead
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Posted - 2006.03.04 05:28:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 03/03/2006 15:03:18
Originally by: Slaphead
Famine,
I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted.
I just want to clarify
Slaphead > HAC's can fit heavy nos
So if you say stuff like this then you really shouldn't have any play in the convo or anything pvp related. On a serious note, pilots make the ship. So yeah HAC can defeat a battleship however, Battleships do have the upper hand and should have NO problem defeating any hac. Even with common pvp setups.
In addition I just went back to the chatlog from the corp chat and your 'quotation' above doesn't appear in it anywhere. Might I enquire as to why you are falsifying chatlogs and posting them as authentic?
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deathfighter
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Posted - 2006.03.04 10:39:00 -
[62]
Edited by: deathfighter on 04/03/2006 10:39:37
in my opinion in small gangs hac are just better and thsese are the reasons why
Hac advantages:
1) beter signature resolution : 5 sec(asuming no sensor boosters) that a bs need to lock after a hac has started firing ~ 1500 dp.
2)beter guns signatuer resolution : 100% hit ration vs targtes biger than 125 sig radius
3)much better tracking resulting in larger hit ratio that cab be maximised by hac pilot's knowladge.
4)3 free hardeners on armor and shileds. self explanatory
5)most hac's have 4 combat oriented bonuses. even though most of the times there are 2 dmg and 2 optimistaion bonuses they all go toward better/consistent damage = more damage.
6)much more versatile. : same setup can be easily used against a variety of ships.
7)1/4 siganture radius of standart bs. that roughly means very reduced damage from large wepons (in form of hit ratio) and misiles (in form of reduced hits)
8)agility : this is a huge advantage imo
Hac isatvantages:
1)Less hp : roughly the better hac has a little less than 1/2 hp of the t1 battleship not that much huh?
2)worst cap recharge rate/ cap pool. for standart hac/bs hac recharge is 3.79 compared to 4.59 for bs. u still have to account for the higher cap usage in bs mods.
3)smaller than bs sensor strength : esasier to jamm.
4)less overall damage in most cases : maybe a demios can outdamage a scorp but still a good asumption
5)less overall slots by a factor of 4 in most cases. 1-2 high slots and almoust always less mids + lows. : this means tighter setups.
6)smaller drone bay + cargo hold. : the first afect greatly damage (excpetions ishtar ofc)
7)nosferatus are not siganture radius dependedn nor velocity dependend so larger ones are better by a huge factor. (main disatvantage)
8)expensive and not insurable.
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Soros
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:46:00 -
[63]
Everyone seems to be missing the point of HACs here.
They aren't meant to be solo pwn mobile's.
1 bs vs 1 hac try:
1bs vs 4 hac
Which makes a group of HACs. With stupid damage
and resitances and + ther sexual.
makes hac's decent ships.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:46:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 04/03/2006 11:46:12
Originally by: Evil Thug
Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win.
yeah try that on a raven
u'd think speed will curb the damage enough but its crazy how much a simple npcin raven with torpedoes + 1 heavy NOS obliterates a Vagabond (mine at least)
to answer the orginal thread: HACs cant beat a pvp bs, unless the battleship is fitted for sniping.
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Soros
Everyone seems to be missing the point of HACs here.
They aren't meant to be solo pwn mobile's.
1 bs vs 1 hac try:
1bs vs 4 hac
Which makes a group of HACs. With stupid damage
and resitances and + ther sexual.
makes hac's decent ships.
no offence, but 4 frigs can kill 1 bs if the pilots are smart.
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Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. *snip*snip brought to you by Kaemonn --Jorauk |
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