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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:17:00 -
[1]
Jita has two legitimate purposes: Travel, and trade.
Jita is not a place to live.
Normal, responsible players move through Jita while travelling, as it is a hub, and go there to buy or sell something, and then LEAVE.
Irresponsible players LIVE in Jita, which raises the number of pilots in system to the point where the system just can't function properly.
Irresponsible players like this are degrading the playing experience for normal, responsible players. These people need to STOP. I personally consider this tantamount to griefing, only without the personally-directed malice that the term usually implies.
I used to live in Jita. When I realized it was becoming a problem, I did the right thing. I packed up and left. You all need to do the same. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:28:00 -
[2]
Amen to that. I think I stayed in Jita for all of 5 minutes at a time unless I have to stay longer or am afk travelling and for some reason stop there.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:48:00 -
[3]
How about providing more resources for an obviously popular system?
It's not the player's fault in the slightest.
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Taerenius
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: res0nance How about providing more resources for an obviously popular system?
It's not the player's fault in the slightest.
Um, actually it's all the player's fault. If the player knows Jita is a problem due to overcrowding yet they live there anyway, it's their fault.
I'm pretty sure making Jita "better" involves more than just plunking down a couple more IBM servers on a rack and saying "yay Jita"!
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: res0nance How about providing more resources for an obviously popular system?
CCP upgraded the servers. Jita had an entire CPU all to itself before, and now it has a NEWER CPU all to itself. There is NO WAY to to provide more resources to Jita. It's impossible.
Originally by: res0nance It's not the player's fault in the slightest.
Yes it is. They choose to live there, in flagrant disregard for other players. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:55:00 -
[6]
why not just get rid of all the other systems, put the whole server to work for jita, where we all live!
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:57:00 -
[7]
No.
This game is a simulator - if cities become full then we build more houses. If Jita becomes full we provide more resources.
If it's in my best interests to live in Jita I can and will, and so should everybody else. It's not up to the playerbase to combat lag. That's what we pay CCP for.
All these CCP ass-kissers, jeeze.
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FubarSF
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:58:00 -
[8]
Stop *****ing. Players have and will continue to live in Jita untill another system offers the same ****.
Just deal with it.
It will get better once ccp figures out how to plug the memory leak.
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:59:00 -
[9]
Do you even know what PVP is?
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.05 06:59:00 -
[10]
/me and Nikolai declares war on Fate and sits at the offline stargate
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Double TaP on 05/03/2006 07:01:39 PvP
Yarrrrr
Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games pitting a player's skill against another's, where the goal is ultimately the death of the opponent's player character. While this can include player killing or PKing, this term is usually used in a narrower sense. It is the antithesis of combating mobs, known as player versus monster (PvM) or player versus environment (PvE).
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Taerenius
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: res0nance No.
This game is a simulator - if cities become full then we build more houses. If Jita becomes full we provide more resources.
If it's in my best interests to live in Jita I can and will, and so should everybody else. It's not up to the playerbase to combat lag. That's what we pay CCP for.
All these CCP ass-kissers, jeeze.
Let me guess you're one of those people who blames everyone else for everything wrong except themselves. Theres only so much CCP can do so fast. KNOWING that Jita is already lagged and not doing ANYTHING about it, means its YOUR fault, regardless of what CCP can do in the extended future.
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DaveW
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:02:00 -
[13]
I only go into Jita for the Saturday night Square Dance. _________________________________________________________________
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:02:00 -
[14]
**** we're toast
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:04:00 -
[15]
I personally, like Nikolai, don't really see the benefit of living in Jita. I bet macroers have already mined out that oh so valuable trit. How hard is it to make things 3-4 jumps away and then haul them to jita to sell; and then leave again.
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:05:00 -
[16]
Nikolai was talking about living in Jita, by which I presumed he meant on a permanent basis.
Therefore my arguments weren't based on the current lag, but rather on changing your EVE lifestyle due to CCP's failure to provide/predict.
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:07:00 -
[17]
Well if lets say 200 people reside permenantly in Jita. Easy enough for server to handle. Hell we could even say 300. But then you have 200-300 people coming to jita to trade stuff. so you've got 300-600 people in system at all times. Honestly. Do 200 people need to live in a .9 system?
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FubarSF
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Double TaP Well if lets say 200 people reside permenantly in Jita. Easy enough for server to handle. Hell we could even say 300. But then you have 200-300 people coming to jita to trade stuff. so you've got 300-600 people in system at all times. Honestly. Do 200 people need to live in a .9 system?
Need ? Who knows. If players want to live there they will. No one can tell them "tough **** - go somewhere else".
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res0nance
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:16:00 -
[19]
Need is very different from convenience. If it's convenient for people to live in Jita then they have the right to. Players should not be held accountable IMO.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:20:00 -
[20]
I am fairly certain that they are unable to split a system between CPU's, so its not their fault. Thus, the only possible solution is for people to move their butts a couple systems away and only journey in there for business transactions. Should put a sort of "parking meter" like thing for trade hubs. You are only allowed to spend so much time in there before you have to leave and can't return for an amount of time thereafter
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: res0nance No.
This game is a simulator - if cities become full then we build more houses. If Jita becomes full we provide more resources.
If it's in my best interests to live in Jita I can and will, and so should everybody else. It's not up to the playerbase to combat lag. That's what we pay CCP for.
All these CCP ass-kissers, jeeze.
CCP cannot provide more resources to Jita. It's not physically possible. You clearly don't understand how the servers and software work, so just trust me when I say that IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.
Originally by: Double TaP /me and Nikolai declares war on Fate and sits at the offline stargate
Somehow I think that missed the point
Originally by: res0nance Therefore my arguments weren't based on the current lag, but rather on changing your EVE lifestyle due to CCP's failure to provide/predict.
Again, CCP did not fail, they did everything they can do.
When you can direct CCP to where they can buy a 500GHz processor to run the Jita node, THEN they will be able to solve Jita without players leaving Jita.
Until then, it's the fault of the players, not CCP. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:24:00 -
[22]
I'll just lend them my super computer here and it can run the entire Eve cluster on a single CPU without any problems. Of course, since that doesn't really exist yet, they will have to wait until its invented, and the players will have to help to fix problems like this.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Steve Bennett
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:30:00 -
[23]
People (like Res0nance and Fubar) need to do further research before simply saying "its CCP's problem and they need to fix it"...
First off - the Jita problem is not based on the 'memory leak' which some clients experience - thats client side.. not related at all.
Second, adding more 'resources' wont fix it. You can't add more CPUs to control Jita, because, if you pay attention to what CCP teaches you about the network layer of eve, only a maximum of 1 server can run a system (though a server can run many systems). When you jump between systems, the delay is due to your client being handed off to another server CPU (SOL server). If they had more than 1 server running Jita, you could experience the same delay in mid flight, mid npc fighting, whatever. You can, however, have 1 server control more than 1 system (otherwise CCP would need thousands of servers). Their load-balancing reduces the number of systems a server is controlling at any time (and the server that runs Jita is probably running ONLY Jita most of the time).
Its CCPs problem as far as the basic design of the game goes. However, I doubt they can really fix that without making a new game with a new Network Layer design. The only realistic solution is for the player base to help out making the game work properly.
.. Well CCP, did I get that right?
SB -PS.. yes, I'm a software developer. --------
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Shelta
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:34:00 -
[24]
If no one lives in jita, then it will soon fail to be the morket hub that it is right now. I go to jita to buy all my items in one station, fit them on my ship and leave. Should the player base move out of jita, then the market won't be far behind.
But it will go some place else, or at perhaps the players will move and the market will follow. Who knows the system, but eventually there will be a place where everything is availible, and thus everyone will want to go there. Yulie was the same way before, jita is the target now, next will be anouther system.
People moving out of jita, only maybe moves the problem some place else. Though there's always people like me, who will happily buy your offices and sell them for enourmous profit I can make, thus helping jita remain the hub that it is today.
Lorths ALT.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Steve Bennett People (like Res0nance and Fubar) need to do further research before simply saying "its CCP's problem and they need to fix it"...
First off - the Jita problem is not based on the 'memory leak' which some clients experience - thats client side.. not related at all.
Second, adding more 'resources' wont fix it. You can't add more CPUs to control Jita, because, if you pay attention to what CCP teaches you about the network layer of eve, only a maximum of 1 server can run a system (though a server can run many systems). When you jump between systems, the delay is due to your client being handed off to another server CPU (SOL server). If they had more than 1 server running Jita, you could experience the same delay in mid flight, mid npc fighting, whatever. You can, however, have 1 server control more than 1 system (otherwise CCP would need thousands of servers). Their load-balancing reduces the number of systems a server is controlling at any time (and the server that runs Jita is probably running ONLY Jita most of the time).
Its CCPs problem as far as the basic design of the game goes. However, I doubt they can really fix that without making a new game with a new Network Layer design. The only realistic solution is for the player base to help out making the game work properly.
.. Well CCP, did I get that right?
SB -PS.. yes, I'm a software developer.
From what I've read somewhere on the Eve forums, that is right. I'm only in second semester of college, and I even know that
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:35:00 -
[26]
Shelta, it just means that those people living in jita will be a couple systems from it, thus spreading it out, and the market hub would still be there, people would just have to haul a couple jumps to post stuff for sale.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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FubarSF
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:36:00 -
[27]
I never said it was all CCP's fault. They (CCP) said the server software HAS a memory leak wich is causing systems to crash. Once that's fixed, the systems will be more stable
My point is people have the right to "live" in ANY system they want. No player has the right to say that Jita is just a trade hub so trade you stuff and bugger off.
tbh, i'd rather be playing but I can't login cause the system i'm in is hosed, but I guess that's my fault right ?
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shelta If no one lives in jita, then it will soon fail to be the morket hub that it is right now. I go to jita to buy all my items in one station, fit them on my ship and leave. Should the player base move out of jita, then the market won't be far behind.
But it will go some place else, or at perhaps the players will move and the market will follow. Who knows the system, but eventually there will be a place where everything is availible, and thus everyone will want to go there. Yulie was the same way before, jita is the target now, next will be anouther system.
People moving out of jita, only maybe moves the problem some place else. Though there's always people like me, who will happily buy your offices and sell them for enourmous profit I can make, thus helping jita remain the hub that it is today.
Lorths ALT.
Not true.
If players go to Jita, buy and sell stuff, and then LEAVE, then Jita will be a perfectly functioning market hub. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
Rafein
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: res0nance How about providing more resources for an obviously popular system?
It's not the player's fault in the slightest.
CCP should remove the station in Jita.
Problem solved.
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FubarSF
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Posted - 2006.03.05 07:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rafein
Originally by: res0nance How about providing more resources for an obviously popular system?
It's not the player's fault in the slightest.
CCP should remove the station in Jita.
Problem solved.
Yea.. great idea
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