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Goghliath
Phoenix Acquisitions
0
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Posted - 2013.12.10 04:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a question. I'm slightly new, reactivated character, and have trained for and purchased an Orca. Right now I'm working on the skills to get a nice fit like this one (http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/45818-Orca-Mining-Support.html). To tell you the truth though I am knowingly getting way ahead of myself so I was hoping some of you could help me out. I haven't really played with others in game yet and realize the Orca is a support vessel. I am a member of a 2 person corp but we haven't really done anything nor have much plans to.
To get to the point, I am wondering how people typically work out arrangements to mine cooperatively to make ISK. I'm a high sec kinda guy and I am wondering how people typically arrange for profits to be split and what not. I'm guessing this is mostly through the corp, but any insights or ideas that can help me either spot a good offer from another corp when presented or begin to build my own would be appreciated.
I'm sorry for the vague nature of the post; I'm not sure how to articulate what I'm looking for. To put it bluntly, I want to make money and I obviously need miners that I can support... what's the best way to go about this?
Thanks! |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
449
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 05:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Goghliath wrote:...and have trained for and purchased an Orca. Right now I'm working on the skills to get a nice fit like this one (http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/45818-Orca-Mining-Support.html). Please. Don't do this. Terrible fit.
Going down to gankers within seconds. Edit: Watch a recent good example here: http://www.twitch.tv/x3aro/c/3334111
Use something like this:
[Orca, Tank] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Replace the afterburner with another hardener (EM), if you don't need the speed. And don't forget to turn on your hardeners.
And as a travel fit
[Orca, Travel] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II /OFFLINE Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II /OFFLINE Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Still > 220k EHP. Remove insurance. |
Goghliath
Phoenix Acquisitions
0
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Posted - 2013.12.10 06:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
That was an awesome video (not so much for the Orca pilot). I'll check out that fit it seems much better. It's gonna be quite some time before I get flying the thing much, I am going to try and get involved in some existing Mining Ops first to see if I can get my feet wet; and in the future I will be paying off the pirates... |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
364
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 14:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goghliath wrote:That was an awesome video (not so much for the Orca pilot). I'll check out that fit it seems much better. It's gonna be quite some time before I get flying the thing much, I am going to try and get involved in some existing Mining Ops first to see if I can get my feet wet; and in the future I will be paying off the pirates...
If you are in high sec you are fairly safe from pirates but there is a legitimate government in high sec now. Mining requires a licence from these guys http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html. On a side note mining is a very low risk , low reward, and boring activitiy. Mail me in game if u want some guides for better income streams. esp if you plan to use the isk for a worthwhile activitiy like PVP. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
81942
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 14:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Goghliath wrote:That was an awesome video (not so much for the Orca pilot). I'll check out that fit it seems much better. It's gonna be quite some time before I get flying the thing much, I am going to try and get involved in some existing Mining Ops first to see if I can get my feet wet; and in the future I will be paying off the pirates... If you are in high sec you are fairly safe from pirates but there is a legitimate government in high sec now. Mining requires a licence from these guys http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html.On a side note mining is a very low risk , low reward, and boring activitiy. Mail me in game if u want some guides for better income streams. esp if you plan to use the isk for a worthwhile activitiy like PVP.
Get F-in' Real. This kind of holier than thou crap is exactly what makes newer players especially industrialists not stick around.
Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious.
I gots better things to do, and better games to play. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1114
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 15:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
I love how people know how to fit an orca....which makes it basically useless to what the OP wants to do. He want's to haul ore, and not very often, just like every other miner in the game wants to do. Making it "gank proof" just means you'll be spending more time going back and forth to the station. Just play smart, don't broadcast mining on Twitch, turn on your hardeners, and watch local. It's not hard. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
51
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 15:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Goghliath wrote:That was an awesome video (not so much for the Orca pilot). I'll check out that fit it seems much better. It's gonna be quite some time before I get flying the thing much, I am going to try and get involved in some existing Mining Ops first to see if I can get my feet wet; and in the future I will be paying off the pirates... If you are in high sec you are fairly safe from pirates but there is a legitimate government in high sec now. Mining requires a licence from these guys http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html.On a side note mining is a very low risk , low reward, and boring activitiy. Mail me in game if u want some guides for better income streams. esp if you plan to use the isk for a worthwhile activitiy like PVP. Get F-in' Real. This kind of holier than thou crap is exactly what makes newer players especially industrialists not stick around. Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious. I gots better things to do, and better games to play.
Goghliath, just ignore anyone endorsing the minerbumping website. IMO they are an in-game hate-group against miners.
Back to the point. Each corporation who do mining ops have their own way of doing this. Some corps pay people on an hourly basis, others just divide all that was mined, some have people just label their own containers and drop it into the members hangar, and there are some out there who expect 100% to go to the corp. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
81949
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 15:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Goghliath, just ignore anyone endorsing the minerbumping website. IMO they are an in-game hate-group against miners.
Oh, I've always ignored them. They are just clowns. But at my age (48), believe me, it comes across as nothing but utterly idiotic.
We used to beat up folks who flipped the Monopoly board. Now they just fly away in their pod, scott-free, really. Weird idea of fun, indeed. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
350
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious.
Dude. Courier contracts are amazing. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
51
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious.
Dude. Courier contracts are amazing.
First off, your name is awesome (cheese eating) SurrenderMonkey.
Anyways, look into the warp speed rig, they actually due a lot.if you still don't like it, use a transport ship or a jump freighter. |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
352
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Posted - 2013.12.10 18:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious.
Dude. Courier contracts are amazing. First off, your name is awesome (cheese eating) SurrenderMonkey. Anyways, look into the warp speed rig, they actually due a lot.if you still don't like it, use a transport ship or a jump freighter.
These are options and all, but I seriously do not understand why so few people take advantage of courier contracts.
It's dead cheap - I would never dream of accepting one of my own courier contracts for the sake of the reward - it wouldn't be worth it to me. So, why would I haul my own crap for "free" when I've already determined that it isn't worth the market price, to me, to do that labor? If the reward for that haul isn't worth it to me, then the cost for having someone else do it most certainly IS worth it. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
449
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:I love how people know how to fit an orca....which makes it basically useless to what the OP wants to do. He want's to haul ore, and not very often, just like every other miner in the game wants to do. Making it "gank proof" just means you'll be spending more time going back and forth to the station. Just play smart, don't broadcast mining on Twitch, turn on your hardeners, and watch local. It's not hard. Well, I never used the booster as a hauler. It only serves as temporary storage, if at all. Instead I used to have a second Orca in the belt as a dedicated hauler until Retribution hit. This way you can tank them both properly.
Since Retribution, I mostly mined into freight containers. After Odyssey the Miasmos made all that obsolete. Remove insurance. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2133
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway.
Can I have your stuff?
(Someone had to say it. It's in the rules somewhere) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Goghliath
Phoenix Acquisitions
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 00:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious.
Dude. Courier contracts are amazing.
I'll have to look into this. Thanks. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
595
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 15:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP, if you want to mine, you either need multiple accounts yourself, such has a orca + hauler +3-50 barges, or you need need an actual mining corp with other people. Right now your orca is just a big fat hauler, which it happens to be pretty good for. I have an orca and I only use it for hauling, because I'm not a miner. Mining solo in hisec is pretty much one of the lowest isk/hour activities you can do, and once you train them, mining skills aren't good for a whole lot besides mining. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
107
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 18:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Goghliath wrote:...and have trained for and purchased an Orca. Right now I'm working on the skills to get a nice fit like this one (http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/45818-Orca-Mining-Support.html). Please. Don't do this. Terrible fit. Going down to gankers within seconds. Edit: Watch a recent good example here: http://www.twitch.tv/x3aro/c/3334111Use something like this: [Orca, Tank] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Replace the afterburner with another hardener (EM), if you don't need the speed. And don't forget to turn on your hardeners. And as a travel fit [Orca, Travel] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II /OFFLINE Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II /OFFLINE Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Still > 220k EHP.
I concur with the idea of tanking your Orca. Because the last thing you will want is to chance with things in Eve. Sure 95% of the time you may never get harassed, but that 5% could be really painful for your wallet especially as a newer player.
In Eve you are rewarded for playing smart, so with your mining barges and Orca don't leave slots open when you can install tank. If you can find more friends have them equip the survey mods so you can fit more tank, and Have a Dedicated hauler to the Orca can act like a can and a booster.
Of course you could fit for pure mining power and fit your orca accordingly too, but just know that it makes you easier to kill regardless of what Concord can do. I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
404
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 20:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Silvetica Dian wrote:Goghliath wrote:That was an awesome video (not so much for the Orca pilot). I'll check out that fit it seems much better. It's gonna be quite some time before I get flying the thing much, I am going to try and get involved in some existing Mining Ops first to see if I can get my feet wet; and in the future I will be paying off the pirates... If you are in high sec you are fairly safe from pirates but there is a legitimate government in high sec now. Mining requires a licence from these guys http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html.On a side note mining is a very low risk , low reward, and boring activitiy. Mail me in game if u want some guides for better income streams. esp if you plan to use the isk for a worthwhile activitiy like PVP. Get F-in' Real. This kind of holier than thou crap is exactly what makes newer players especially industrialists not stick around. Doesn't matter. After 4 years I'm bailing anyway. Dragging stuff to market in an Orca with this warp mechanic slow-down is just not working out. The most tedious aspect of the game (travel) is made even more tedious. I gots better things to do, and better games to play.
Oh, my. You so mad. Since you're quitting, can I have your stuff? I have an alt that is looking at getting into an Orca.
edit: oh, hell. Someone beat me to it. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
397
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Goghliath wrote:To get to the point, I am wondering how people typically work out arrangements to mine cooperatively to make ISK. I'm a high sec kinda guy and I am wondering how people typically arrange for profits to be split and what not. I'm guessing this is mostly through the corp, but any insights or ideas that can help me either spot a good offer from another corp when presented or begin to build my own would be appreciated.
A year or two ago, I arranged 2-3 so-called "commie style" mining ops, for fellow Danish language players. Everybody who was to participate was told what system to show up in, and whether to bring a mining ship or a hauler (I supplied the Orca), and we'd mine for 3 hours straight, e.g. from 1800 to 2100 local time. At the end, the hauler would contract all the ore to me, I'd haul the ore to someplace where I had perfect refine, then I'd haul the minerals to Jita, note down the sell prices, sell them, then divide the ISK equally among all participants. Equally, regardless of whether some some in Venture mining frigates and others in T2/T2 Hulks.
One op kinda broke, because some of the people who signed up hadn't understood that they were supposed to mine for the entire duration of the op, so the left after maybe 90 minutes, maybe expecting to be paid per can or something. But if people understand the principle, it can work fine.
In my experience, you need one miner per type of ore per belt, so e.g. if you have 4 miner ships, you assign one to veld, one to scord, one to pyx and one to kern, and they just suck on the roids until they're gone, jetcanning, then on to next belt. With 6-8 miners, you need to be mining 2 belts at a time, and more than that probably isn't practical with one Orca. You also need one hauler, preferable able to move large amounts of ore. (Note that the range bonus from the Orca is very nice - don't fit for the yield bonus only). |
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
27
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 20:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:I love how people know how to fit an orca....which makes it basically useless to what the OP wants to do. He want's to haul ore, and not very often, just like every other miner in the game wants to do. Making it "gank proof" just means you'll be spending more time going back and forth to the station. Just play smart, don't broadcast mining on Twitch, turn on your hardeners, and watch local. It's not hard.
you haul with a freighter not with the orca also to answer your question on how to distribute there are a few options but depends on how much work you want to put into it
1 easiest take total value of the ore take and divide evenly per miner ( not the most fair ) 2 have the other miners jc the ore they want to sell make a spreadsheet for ore value and pay when you tractor the ore in to the orca I do at 95% mineral value but I am usually only doing this for friends 3 have them haul their own ore and you are just providing boosing set a rate per hr for the booster. This works if they are in a retriever/ mack but not so well if they are in a covoter/hulk and use the orca for your own use only 4 is similar to 1 but need to add factors for actual time mined and the ship they are in and expected pull per hr as a % of total received to know % payout per person that can become a lot of work real fast.
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Goghliath
Phoenix Acquisitions
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 01:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Robert Morningstar wrote:Zifrian wrote:I love how people know how to fit an orca....which makes it basically useless to what the OP wants to do. He want's to haul ore, and not very often, just like every other miner in the game wants to do. Making it "gank proof" just means you'll be spending more time going back and forth to the station. Just play smart, don't broadcast mining on Twitch, turn on your hardeners, and watch local. It's not hard. 1 easiest take total value of the ore take and divide evenly per miner ( not the most fair ) 2 have the other miners jc the ore they want to sell make a spreadsheet for ore value and pay when you tractor the ore in to the orca I do at 95% mineral value but I am usually only doing this for friends 3 have them haul their own ore and you are just providing boosing set a rate per hr for the booster. This works if they are in a retriever/ mack but not so well if they are in a covoter/hulk and use the orca for your own use only 4 is similar to 1 but need to add factors for actual time mined and the ship they are in and expected pull per hr as a % of total received to know % payout per person that can become a lot of work real fast.
These are all great suggestions, and I am especially spreadsheet crazy so I like No. 2. Thanks for the input! |
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Goghliath
Phoenix Acquisitions
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 01:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Goghliath wrote:To get to the point, I am wondering how people typically work out arrangements to mine cooperatively to make ISK. I'm a high sec kinda guy and I am wondering how people typically arrange for profits to be split and what not. I'm guessing this is mostly through the corp, but any insights or ideas that can help me either spot a good offer from another corp when presented or begin to build my own would be appreciated.
A year or two ago, I arranged 2-3 so-called "commie style" mining ops, for fellow Danish language players. Everybody who was to participate was told what system to show up in, and whether to bring a mining ship or a hauler (I supplied the Orca), and we'd mine for 3 hours straight, e.g. from 1800 to 2100 local time. At the end, the hauler would contract all the ore to me, I'd haul the ore to someplace where I had perfect refine, then I'd haul the minerals to Jita, note down the sell prices, sell them, then divide the ISK equally among all participants. Equally, regardless of whether some some in Venture mining frigates and others in T2/T2 Hulks. One op kinda broke, because some of the people who signed up hadn't understood that they were supposed to mine for the entire duration of the op, so the left after maybe 90 minutes, maybe expecting to be paid per can or something. But if people understand the principle, it can work fine. In my experience, you need one miner per type of ore per belt, so e.g. if you have 4 miner ships, you assign one to veld, one to scord, one to pyx and one to kern, and they just suck on the roids until they're gone, jetcanning, then on to next belt. With 6-8 miners, you need to be mining 2 belts at a time, and more than that probably isn't practical with one Orca. You also need one hauler, preferable able to move large amounts of ore. (Note that the range bonus from the Orca is very nice - don't fit for the yield bonus only).
I like your setup so far as assigning types of ore to miners etc., but I feel the commie style sharing may diminish some of the incentives; especially if the higher yielding fits / ships start to feel like they are pulling all the weight. It's like a cartel or monopoly that lacks government backing in a sense, I don't see it lasting without the implicit "gun". But non the less thanks for the response and I'm sure I'll incorporate some of your points.
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Digital Messiah
Digital Alchemist Abandon PlayGrounds
345
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 07:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP is in an s&m relationship with mining. So they made the tractor deployable only able to hold 27,000 m3 with no ore hold. This would've revolutionized belt mining while still allowing haulers a role. As to not hi jack your thread on this topic. There are plenty of corps who need orca pilots. And you can make decent isk from the use of one. Not to mention the use of leadership skills later down the road and self mining bonus even in a miner rather than orca. "fleet required" Something clever |
MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild Solitude Coalition
34
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 08:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
One system you can try. Note numbers here are made up for the sake of clarity
10 miners 2 are in mining frigate 5 are in mining barges 3 are in hulks
The mining frigates are mining 40 units per hour. The barges are on average mining 127 units per hour The hulks are mining on average 134 units per hour.
Each hour of mining at 100% efficiency would bring in 983 units. It was pre-planned that the operation would last 5 hours. It would bring in 5585 units total.
Lets say this was refined and sold to the tune of 1 billion isk. That gives us a value of 179,051.03 per unit. Lets say the cut for the booster was 5% Now each unit is worth 170,098.48 isk. The frigates both mined a total of 200 each, so their split is 34,019,696 isk each. The barges all mined a total of 635 units each, so their cut is 108,012,534.8 isk each The hulks all mined a total of 670 units each, so their cut is 113,965,981.6 isk each.
How you manage the ore drops is up to you.
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