Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jai Cee
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 17:10:00 -
[1]
Just looking up the skills required to fly some T2 ships specifically cv-ops then recon ships. Boy do these require some very very long skills to train.
Now I'm not saying that there should be no lvl 5 skills required to pilot ships like these but it requires 3 lvl 5s to fly cv-ops and 3 more to fly recon ships. Thats a lot of training time. Should the pre-requisits for T2 ships not be changed so that they only require 1 additional lvl 5 skill from their predecessor or at most 2.
CCP say that people stay an average of only 7 months which pretty much means that an average player can never get the joy of experiencing more than a fraction of the T2 ships.
|
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 17:15:00 -
[2]
Its to encourage specialisation, im two years old and cant fly some T2 ships, nor do i want to..
Personally i think the system is ok, and after all the new content is to make people pay subs for longer, CCP are a buisness after all.
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
Jai Cee
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 17:22:00 -
[3]
I don't expect to be able to fly all T2 ships and from experience I don't expect this game to be too easy partly I just find that the extremely long skill training puts me off the game a lot.
37 days to learn cruiser 5 is a huge wad of time for your character not to be improving, then you need more level 5 skills. IMHO the only barrier to T2 should be that 1 ship class skill for >cruiser ships and perhaps two lvl 5s for frig based T2s.
|
Soren
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 18:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jai Cee I don't expect to be able to fly all T2 ships and from experience I don't expect this game to be too easy partly I just find that the extremely long skill training puts me off the game a lot.
37 days to learn cruiser 5 is a huge wad of time for your character not to be improving, then you need more level 5 skills. IMHO the only barrier to T2 should be that 1 ship class skill for >cruiser ships and perhaps two lvl 5s for frig based T2s.
35 days for cruiser 5? O_o.. get some implants and learning skills.. even battleship 5 doesn't take me that long.
And you ARE improving after those 35 days, you can use a higher class of ship (if you can afford it) and the t1 will do better as well.
If 35 days if too long, train other skills that will help you improve more first. A big point of level 5's is so that vets need to train alot and still not be WAY ahead of the newer players. ________________________________________________
|
Buraken v2
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 18:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Buraken v2 on 05/03/2006 18:14:24 Like soren said, if it takes you 37 days to trian cruiser lvl V then make a new char, because your perc/willp is INCREDIBLY low, for me it takes 18day to train a cruiser skill from 0 to 5 =/
How much is ure perception and willpower? =)
Originally by: Mang0o 200m sexy ill bid on yours becouse you are so cute
|
Boonaki
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 18:46:00 -
[6]
T2 ships are nothing, Capital ships are even more fun to train for. Fear the Ibis of doom. |
4 LOM
|
Posted - 2006.03.05 18:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jai Cee Just looking up the skills required to fly some T2 ships specifically cv-ops then recon ships. Boy do these require some very very long skills to train.
Now I'm not saying that there should be no lvl 5 skills required to pilot ships like these but it requires 3 lvl 5s to fly cv-ops and 3 more to fly recon ships. Thats a lot of training time. Should the pre-requisits for T2 ships not be changed so that they only require 1 additional lvl 5 skill from their predecessor or at most 2.
CCP say that people stay an average of only 7 months which pretty much means that an average player can never get the joy of experiencing more than a fraction of the T2 ships.
Short answer to this is no... they are elite and meant for specilization. and try to think of it as all those level 5 skills are not just to fly the ship they do stuff in there own right, warp disruption level 5 was a fustrating train so that i could use warp disruption porbes on my inderdictor but when it was over my crow was alot better with the added 5% reduction in cap usage for my 20km disruptor and well worth the training time.
anyways no they should not reduce the skill requirments for tech 2 ships. first off specilization is very cool, would be stupid if everyone could do everything. and secondly you will want those skills anyways so its really not any longer to train for.
if you could fly all the tech to ships within 7 months then no one would stay past that 7 month time cause the game would be boaring.
Yes as a new player it can be intimidating to see all those level 5 skills but you will learn to apreciate the value of not having everyone and there dog being able to fly every tech 2 ship, plus you will like the added benifits that some of those level 5's give you (some you wont... depends on you character and style of play)
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 00:10:00 -
[8]
they take way to long imo ,when tech 3 comes if you need another bunch of lvl5 skills its going to take way to long.
especially when you consider that blog saying the average person only plays for something like 8 months and then moves on.
|
Khristopher
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:11:00 -
[9]
37 days?? Thats insane you need to train up your learning skills. I don't use implants but I do have the adv learning skills trained to 3 some of them to 4 and I think cruiser 5 only took me about 19 days.
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Khristopher 37 days?? Thats insane you need to train up your learning skills. I don't use implants but I do have the adv learning skills trained to 3 some of them to 4 and I think cruiser 5 only took me about 19 days.
Would take me more than 22 days and I've got maxed out learning skills and +4 & +5 implants. Totally possible to be 37 days (or a lot more). Theoretically possible to get it down to around 17 days. ---
Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained. |
|
Stephen HB
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 08:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Khristopher 37 days?? Thats insane you need to train up your learning skills. I don't use implants but I do have the adv learning skills trained to 3 some of them to 4 and I think cruiser 5 only took me about 19 days.
Would take me more than 22 days and I've got maxed out learning skills and +4 & +5 implants. Totally possible to be 37 days (or a lot more). Theoretically possible to get it down to around 17 days.
17d 23.5h
Rank 5 MEM/INT 25d 2.5h -- Originally by: Drayce Between the learning skills and the tutorial, Eve is like a firewall against the attention deficit kids.
EVE Tracking Guide |
Jai Cee
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 09:15:00 -
[12]
Well I've just checked Eve character manager and with 19 perception and 20 willpower Gallente cruiser will take me 24 days. Previously I had just quickly quoted it as including 3->4 and without the extra 4 points from both advanced skills to lvl 3.
Thats 3 weeks for that one skill alone which is more than enough time to train that. Then think of firstly the other level 5 skills required to fly those ships and then think of some of the others like level 5 gunnery skills for T2 weapons.
Just assuming that I played for only 7 months and wanted to get into a ship that required thats 10% of my skill training time all on its own and thats including the extra bonuses I'm getting from 2 level 5 learning skills.
I'd say its fairly reasonable to say that requiring more level 5 skills is starting to take it too far. There should be no more than 1 skill > than rank 1 required at level 5 for most T2 ships. It simply puts too many people out of ever being able to use any of them.
|
Rodj Blake
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 10:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Boonaki T2 ships are nothing, Capital ships are even more fun to train for.
Just imagine what training for T2 capital ships will be like...
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Hohenheim OfLight
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 10:53:00 -
[14]
37 days is not that bad would take me 47 days to do bs lvl5 only 17 perc dma my 24 intel. ----------------------------------------------
This signature is 400x120 pixels and 23.257 bytes. Happy now? Actually it's 21793 bytes, but anyway, we're ecstatic - dah mods |
Arderich
|
Posted - 2006.03.06 11:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: 4 LOM Short answer to this is no... they are elite and meant for specilization.
QFT
If anything then it's way too easy to use t2. I hope t3 will have higher skill requirements.
|
illusus
|
Posted - 2006.03.07 07:25:00 -
[16]
I love the long training times. I've played other MMORPGs where new characters can power-level (with the proper assistance) and achieve high levels in short periods of time. I don't know what CCP intended, but EVE skill training forces newcomers to actually spend some time with the game and it rewards those who stick with the game. My EVE character is almost three years old and I would be ****ED if a six month old pilot reached similar skill levels.
|
Shoele Lialos
|
Posted - 2006.03.07 20:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: illusus I would be ****ED if a six month old pilot reached similar skill levels.
Therein lies something good about the EVE system, a six month old pilot CAN reach similar skill levels, IF he is willing to limit himself to smaller ships. All of those Medium, Large, and Capitol skills don't make you a better frigate pilot.
If it wasn't for this, I think many noobs (like myself) would be very daunted by the fact that they can never catch the 30Mil SP players.
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2006.03.07 21:47:00 -
[18]
Catch is, with all the lvl 5 pe-reqs, once you've actually gotten the ship, you're basically as good as you're ever going to get with it. Sort of a letdown, for all those months spent building up to it.
|
Archrave
|
Posted - 2006.03.07 22:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Archrave on 07/03/2006 22:14:47 Edited by: Archrave on 07/03/2006 22:05:21 The issue is, to keep the game growing and not just the hardcore, I agree, training times for some of the higher ships might be more than a little offputting.
Think on this. Would it benefit the universe of Eve to have more people in it? If yes, then reduce the barrier to the sections of the game that truly excite people and make them want to stay longer and become veterans. If the community likes itself insular and static, then this isnt an issue.
It is always tough for people who have put the time in in these types of games to concede that to let the game grow and breath, it may need to reduce some of the barriers to "better" content (if there is such a thing in Eve), but for the health of the community as a whole, it might be hurting more than helping by keeping newer players so far removed from their perceived prize.
Lets be realistic, in this dog eat dog MMO market, to take the time and focus not on the skill of the player, but solely on real time expenditure, might not make the most sense anymore. (ie - mission based rewards that have a reward of "injecting" or "uploading" a set amount of SP. This would let those that want to keep moving toward a goal the ability to speed the plow if they so desire.)
Example: A supremely intelligent player joins Eve, gets to a point where they have a great understanding of the game and its mechanics, then becomes helpless in his goal to improve his character and is forced to become a clock watcher until his training timer is up. So nothing he can do can aid in this. I know this is the billing model CCP uses to keep money comin in, but with a stated lifespan of 8 months for an Eve player, I would think of ways to try and increase retention, and the skill system might be a good start.
The system may need a revamp or maybe not. Probably not the right place to state this anyway.
I am probably too new and will no doubt be flamed by those who have put the time in, as I have done vehemently in previous games I have played when "easier solutions" to leveling were introduced (Anarchy Online vet of 3 years), but the logic is sound as it was explained to me then, and it still holds true here.
Thanks.
|
Teles666
|
Posted - 2006.03.07 23:36:00 -
[20]
Why is it 8 months though? I'm about that now and I can tell you why - you've got over the challenge of the skills, you have the ship you wanted.
Now what?
I've found my next step (create a mega industrial corp - yeh well aim high)
If they make it so you can get whatever you are shooting for in 3 months - who says you won't lose players in 3 months instead of 8?
|
|
franny
|
Posted - 2006.03.08 07:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: franny on 08/03/2006 07:11:39 give or take a week
it took me with dedicated training about 5.5mths to get into my Ishtar from start(mid May last yr) to early november that included learning skills, drone skills(had DI3 at the time I got my ishtar), frig, assault ships, etc
could I use it 100% the day I got it, no.. I couldn't use T2 drones, T2 Nos, T2 ECM, T2 hardeners, etc all stuff I completed as quickly after as possible
I look at it this way, the last MMORPG I played, I played for ~6 yrs(about 5 of it on the same character)... if I play this one for 1/2 that time, I still ain't lost anything by spending the early part of my EVE 'life' going almost straight for HAC ----------- /wtb Eris in a cage Sorry, she's not for sale. You can get Imaran for free though - Wrangler can I at least get someone decent? Sure, I'll let you know when I find one - Wrangler |
Mike Yagon
|
Posted - 2006.03.08 07:15:00 -
[22]
If you achieve your goals *too* fast then that leaves little challenge in the game. However, if your goal is merely to "watch the skill timer clock decrease" then what challenge is there? :p
Most realistic goals in EVE come with a skill training sure. But they also usually come with a price tag, price tags that may even climb into the billions. (Carriers, Motherships, Titans) To obtain these you will need more than just your skill timer to decrease. You will also need to make money, somehow.
Even your super intelligent player (Curious example but okay) won't be instantly rich. Even if you understand the entire game completely there is still work you need to do, regardless of your chosen profession. Fighting, mining, building, heck even scamming , it all takes time as well. Sure, if you're clever about it you can make a lot more money in a lot less time, but it will still take an effort.
As for the Tech2 ships, well, I suppose they're kind of a reward for playing the game very long. In Dark Age of Camelot you can earn Realm Points to climb into Realm Ranks, which are special levels. Most players don't even reach Realm Rank 5. Would this mean the amount of points needed should be lowered? No, that would be unfair to those that actually stuck around 4 years.
I'm training for Covert Ops myself right now. One more month for me, Frigate to 5 and Electronic Upgrades to 5. I'm going to need Electronics Upgrades to 5 anyway, so I'm not wasting time training useless skills for my normal ships. Frigate 5 is kind of a 'reward' skill I'll train up so I can pat myself on the back and buy myself a Covert Ops ship for training so long.
Covert Ops is my 'medium term' goal. :P Long term I'm working on flying my Apoc better and better. Short term I'm currently working on getting some decent items for my Apoc so I can run level 4 missions with it. Currently I lack DPS to break the tanks, all I am is an expensive target they can't break down.
If you ask me T2 is fine. :)
|
Jai Cee
|
Posted - 2006.03.08 21:55:00 -
[23]
There have been some very good responses in this thread on both sides of the argument. I however am still of the belief that there are too many level 5 prerequisits in ships. Personally I would prefer that T2 items generally require more level 5 skills. Weapon systems are a good example of this, they take a serious number of training points to get to the T2 varieties in comparison to other things like T2 NOS, AB, MWD and repairers etc.
The game is very inconsistant in this way. Currently I love the challenge of getting into a new ship class and then very slowly working my way into being able to fly it better and better. Some ships though that are really exciting like cv-ops it will take a long long time to train especially if you like me want to also experience areas other than PVP such as production etc.
The suggestions for allowing people into a greater variety of ships sooner would to me only add to interest. After all if you keep the skill requirement for T2 items high and the chances of getting fantastic faction loot low there is still a lot of scope for people to improve their ships.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |