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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/03/2006 22:06:13 (For you physics gurus).
How to accelerate a spaceship very fast to near-light speed without much exotic physics and without much energy..
Ingredients: (1) Stellar mass black hole (3-10 solar masses is reasonable, higher can't hurt though) (1) Large asteroid (1) Spaceship with inertia dampeners (1) Strong cable a few hundred thousand to a million kilometers long, strong enough to tug the spaceship.
Directions: 1. Aim the spaceship on a path above the black hole (a few thousand kilometers above at closest approach) at a high velocity, high enough that it won't nearly be sucked in. This doesn't need to be that fast at all. Have its starting position be about 1 million km away from the black hole. 2. Attach the asteroid with the cable to the front of the spaceship. 3. Place the asteroid a few thousand kilometers from the black hole, in line with the spaceship. 4. The asteroid will now be sucked into the hole and gain a vast amount of kinetic energy before it finally disintegrates near the event horizon. It will probably near half light speed or even more. 5. The spaceship will of course be tugged at the same speed. It will use its thrusters to ensure that its trajectory stays well above the hole as it began, however, it will have gained an incredible amount of forward velocity.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:18:00 -
[2]
i think i have all those things stashed someowhere in my rooom. i'll give it a try later
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:21:00 -
[3]
Sci-Fi? ----------------
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Sci-Fi?
No, the entire idea is that its using real physics. I want to know from a real physics guy whether it would work, or if there's something wrong with it
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:25:00 -
[5]
@jenny, your sig scares me
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Sci-Fi?
No, the entire idea is that its using real physics. I want to know from a real physics guy whether it would work, or if there's something wrong with it
1. Cable breaks (dont think there is strong enough to resist tensile strength) when roid is pulled into the event horizon.
2. Basically the idea is to sling shot the spaceship? ----------------
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 07/03/2006 22:32:42
Originally by: HippoKing @jenny, your sig scares me
Well, I have to try to appreciate Sarmual's artwork. ----------------
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Sci-Fi?
No, the entire idea is that its using real physics. I want to know from a real physics guy whether it would work, or if there's something wrong with it
1. Cable breaks (dont think there is strong enough to resist tensile strength) when roid is pulled into the event horizon.
Thats exactly the point. It automatically will break AT the event horizon, because the bosons that carry the electromagnetic force between the atoms of the cable will not be able to cross the event horizon, and thus the cable if not already broken will always disintegrate at the event horizon. However, the whole point of this is that the asteroid and cable break up before hitting the horizon anyways. You still gain loads of energy.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
2. Basically the idea is to sling shot the spaceship?
Yup.
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:37:00 -
[9]
I like your thinking DS, but....
I believe the gravitational shear on the craft will tear it apart, and if the thrusters were powerful enough to move the ship away from the blackhole I'm guessing they would be powerful enough to get the ship to near light speed velocities on their own.
plus...what Jenny said
.
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Abbadon I like your thinking DS, but....
I believe the gravitational shear on the craft will tear it apart, and if the thrusters were powerful enough to move the ship away from the blackhole I'm guessing they would be powerful enough to get the ship to near light speed velocities on their own.
Read it again. The craft NEVER gets close enough to the hole for the gravitation attraction to be an issue. It starts moving in a direction that would keep it away from the hole, and continues thrusting the whole time to make sure it stays well out of the area surrounding it. The slingshot is near the hole, but the cable keeps the ship away.
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RogueWing
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:45:00 -
[11]
I would imagine that the strain on the cable (from the amount of acceleration) would cause it to snap where it connected at the ship (or at the asteroid) before the asteroid hit the event horizon.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:47:00 -
[12]
I think the tensile vibrations will destroy the ship. But you have inertia dampeners so not sure what exactly it does. The inertia dampeners counter vibrations? ----------------
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/03/2006 22:48:05
Originally by: RogueWing I would imagine that the strain on the cable (from the amount of acceleration) would cause it to snap where it connected at the ship (or at the asteroid) before the asteroid hit the event horizon.
Well lets assume the cable is good enough to handle that
BTW here's a little diagram I drew in paint: diagram.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:48:00 -
[14]
I prefer hyperspace journey. ----------------
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I think the tensile vibrations will destroy the ship. But you have inertia dampeners so not sure what exactly it does. The inertia dampeners counter vibrations?
Isn't that the whole point
The Enterprise goes from 0 to 0.5c in a matter of minutes.
The real energy drain is in those engines
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:49:00 -
[16]
I see what you mean.
This LInky suggests something very similar (without the asteroid idea tho).
I wonder what relativistic effects would do to the ship tho. (time dilation, mass increase and length contraction) ?? .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Abbadon I see what you mean.
This LInky suggests something very similar (without the asteroid idea tho).
I wonder what relativistic effects would do to the ship tho. (time dilation, mass increase and length contraction) ??
Relativistic effects would be the least of your worries, especially as the ship hardly gets near the hole. You'd have more relativistic effects from your velocity.
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:52:00 -
[18]
Sorry that what I meant, at 0.5c the ship would probably have the mass of a titan, the dimensions of a pod and with the time dilation effect it would feel like the worst patch day ever .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:56:00 -
[19]
Mebbe a more philosophical question. If you can haul a cable to an asteroid to the black hole and wait for "surf up" so you can be sling shot around, I think you would be able to travel near FTL in the first place, isnt it? ----------------
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 22:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/03/2006 22:57:46
Originally by: Abbadon Sorry that what I meant, at 0.5c the ship would probably have the mass of a titan, the dimensions of a pod and with the time dilation effect it would feel like the worst patch day ever
Remember, from your perspective, you aren't moving, so you would experience none of those effects.
And at just 0.5C, the effect would be minimal--just 14% time dilation.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Mebbe a more philosophical question. If you can haul a cable to an asteroid to the black hole and wait for "surf up" so you can be sling shot around, I think you would be able to travel near FTL in the first place, isnt it?
FTL travel may very well be impossible or impractical.
Moving an asteroid and making a big cable, on the other hand, is very easy by comparison.
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:03:00 -
[21]
True, from my perpective things would be peachy...I'm a little worried about the thrusters tho.
As the ship accelerates toward lightspeed its mass increases and the thrusters would have to be designed with that in mind.
So does that give us a catch 22 situation, make the thrusters powerful enough to manage the extra mass but these extra large thrusters would also increase in mass thus negating their extra power ....hmmmm...time for coffee :P .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Abbadon True, from my perpective things would be peachy...I'm a little worried about the thrusters tho.
As the ship accelerates toward lightspeed its mass increases and the thrusters would have to be designed with that in mind.
No they wouldn't--the thrusters accelerate along with the spaceship, and are not moving relative to the rest of the spaceship.
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:07:00 -
[23]
The ship would still increase in mass though, meaning the thrusters have more and more mass to move? .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Abbadon The ship would still increase in mass though, meaning the thrusters have more and more mass to move?
Does that make a difference? It would simply mean the ship would accelerate slower--one wouldn't need "bigger thrusters."
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:15:00 -
[25]
If you were relying on the thrusters to keep you out of the black hole, the extra mass would have to be factored in.
Any idea what the added mass would be at 0.5c ? .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:22:00 -
[26]
Ahh found it....the effects are quite small at 0.5c
if stationary mass = 10 mass @ 0.5c = 11.5 mass @ 0.99c = 70.89 mass @ 0.9999c = 707.12
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Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Abbadon Ahh found it....the effects are quite small at 0.5c
if stationary mass = 10 mass @ 0.5c = 11.5 mass @ 0.99c = 70.89 mass @ 0.9999c = 707.12
Meh those aren't that accurate.
Mass at 0.5c = 11.1803399
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Abbadon
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:27:00 -
[28]
LOL splitter!
Do you, by any chance, create CCPs equations for stacking .
Dancers plz. o/ --Jorauk *boogies*-eris *booty bounces* - Cortes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Abbadon LOL splitter!
Do you, by any chance, create CCPs equations for stacking
No, I didn't, or they'd be simpler.
The Lorentz factor, gamma, used for all special relativistic effects, is merely sqrt(1-v^2/c^2).
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.03.07 23:33:00 -
[30]
If the cable is strong enough the gravitational field from the blackhole will pull it in, all of it. Bye bye ship _ __
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