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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Coyote Laughing
2
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Posted - 2013.12.18 02:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hear the same question over and over "Where are all the asteroids?" in help and local chat.
Let's get the ISK farmers out of career and starting systems - they deliberately make the new player experience harder.
There is enough exploitation when it comes to market orders as it is (whistles innocently).
This game cannot survive without a steady influx of new players. More cheap minerals means cheap ships!
It's simple enough - reply and put your +1 here (or -1 if you are a hater). l8r \o/ |
Barbarrossa Buchner
Elite Lone Wolves
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 02:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thoughts of a noob..
That was me asking.. (or one of the many)
The reply was -if the belt is farmed out there will be nothing left there. Easiest way to do it is jump once or twice and hit a surrounding spot.
Which I did.
MANY other things I found much harder as a noob rather than this. 20 days in and counting.
The more I learn the more I realize just how much I don't know. |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
141
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 02:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Although I do condemn botting, I am of the opinion that space belongs to everyone. I wont endorse splitting the universe up in zones for different types of players. I also believe it is good for new players to mingle with older player as soon as possible. EVE just isn't a fun single player experience. When they meet friends early on chances on them subscribing after trial become much bigger. An added bonus is they will learn to play that much faster.
Fly Safe o/
Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Coyote Laughing
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 02:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are supposed to be anti-griefer protections for players under 30 days old - this is a clear examples of activities that force players out into other systems where they are legitimate targets - especially when some career missions do not spawn the belt required.
I'm not stopping older players from mining in ventures - especially if they never went back and finished their career tutorials, just not hoovering up all the belts in the first 1-2 hours.
It doesn't affect me, I manufacture all that stuff needed for my new alts before I even start them. l8r \o/ |
Jill Chastot
Aliastra Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.12.18 03:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
" this is a clear examples of activities that force players out into other systems where they are legitimate targets"
And that is bad? |
Asia Leigh
Niflheim Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 06:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
When I first started this game I had to leave system to mine needed materials for the industry tutorial arc, and had to manufacture the required materials in a different system as well.
It was perhaps the best thing that happened to me as this is where I met the core group of players that I hang out with in game. Does it make you a target for suicide gankers, sure, but there is also benefits from going outside the noob zone from time to time as well.
Also if you were to get ganked in your venture it will be a relatively cheap loss for even a new player, and it will give you experience in what you have to do to avoid getting ganked in the future, and you may even make friends in game.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
125
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Posted - 2013.12.18 09:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
I wouldn't blame botters for newbie systems being farmed out. Blame the newbies.
Seriously.
Botters know there are more lucrative systems to farm even counting the occasional suicide gank. Newbies stick in the newbie systems and farm the place out because they are afraid to venture forth.
Venture forth. Go die a few times, learn it is no big deal. And go mine a real system.
you can also do missions and mine those. Asteroids aren't the only places to farm mats. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Good Apollo BS4
Pew Pew Scrubs The Silent One's
24
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Posted - 2013.12.18 14:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Solution...
Don't mine. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
318
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 14:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:I wouldn't blame botters for newbie systems being farmed out. Blame the newbies.
Seriously.
Botters know there are more lucrative systems to farm even counting the occasional suicide gank. I see nothing about botters in the OP. |
Grimm Liberty
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
hmm, I'm new here, but I have not had any issues so far... All the missions have ore, IF you have Time to spend; mine it all, ignore the bonus credits, you'll get more ISK mining. IF, like me, you have a plan and want to rush, take the bonus ISK.
The 'starter' places that have been mined out are just one or two jumps from places that weren't. 0.8 space is not that bad... LOL
In a truly sandbox game I cannot for the life of me understand why you feel the need to take out sand and add water? |
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Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm a newbie that got past that hurdle. Barely.
A lot of these replies shows a distinct lack of perspective.
"Just go to another solar system..."
"Risk losing your Venture, it'll be a good learning experience..."
Yeah, Bu!!Sh!t. A newbie that is doing the career tutorials has NO CLUE about anything. For example, I was told to fly to an asteroid belt and mine some ore. So I went to many asteroid belts and spent to much time to admit without being embarrassed trying to find an asteroid. I fooled around with my graphics settings. I fooled around with my Overview. I didn't even know then that I could fly manually, so I spent so much time zooming in and out, panning around in all directions so I could find an asteroid to be able to fly towards.
Because, in what game EVER, has a tutorial sent you to an area where the thing you need to find is not actually there? The newbie doesn't understand that someone else may have mined it all and there's nothing left. The newbie figures, this is where I was told to go, so if I don't see what I'm here to get, there's something wrong on my end. So they waste time. Get frustrated. In all my time learning EVE so far, this one issue is one that I found to be unacceptable.
I am not advocating kicking people out of "newbie" systems. At the very least, if you fly into an asteroid belt after being instructed to do so, and there are no asteroids, you should get a tutorial message saying,
- "You do not see any asteroids here because there are none left. You will have to fly to another asteroid belt in this solar system. And if there are none there, you may have to fly to other solar systems."
In response to some of the other comments:
- Blame the newbies? Yeah, those newbies flying Ventures with 5000m3 ore holds who have no clue about jet can mining without industrial (trial accounts can't even train industrials!!!) ships capable of hauling more than the Venture can carry, with civilian mining lasers and level 1 skills are the ones stripping ALL the asteroid belts in a solar system. What a completely ignorant post. -1 internetz for you.
- Losing a Venture is no big deal? If a trial account, or even a subscribed newbie decides to focus on mining and hasn't done the other combat missions that try to let you know that losing a ship is normal and no big deal, who then flies out and gets ganked... Well he doesn't have a ship anymore. He figures he can't finish his mission. He may not even know how to buy another ship yet. And he's faced with a failed mission.
Whatever. I've done missions where I got junk ores that wasn't part of the EVE economy. Why couldn't the starter (career training) areas have asteroid field full of this junk ore? Completely useless except to finish a mining mission.
Somehow, I'm sure those asteroid fields would still get mined because I've come to realize that EVE players have a mentality of making the game as hard to learn as possible. That last bit may sound like tears to most of you, but I managed to get past the established players stupidity hurdle and am playing with my own goals and plans in mind. I like the concept of EVE, however I see the established player base harassing legit newbies because they suffered their own form of hazing when they started out. It's all stupid, and costs CCP potential income, which is what gets my knickers in a bunch. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
-0
Yes. The idea is good.
On the other hand I agree. Let new players move around to find a belt. This way they will find out that sometimes you have to look further then just the system you are in.
And highsec belts are not owned or what so ever. Who ever get to the belt first gets the best mining.
About new players being targets outside the rookie system. CCP actually changed the rules this year that griefing new player outside the rookie system can also be petitioned and each case will be dealt with on its own. As I'm at work I cant link the GM post that is on the forums here. Just google for: "EVE Online forum Big Brother is watching". It's the second the OP + second to last post that explains it. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:-0
Yes. The idea is good.
On the other hand I agree. Let new players move around to find a belt. This way they will find out that sometimes you have to look further then just the system you are in.
And highsec belts are not owned or what so ever. Who ever get to the belt first gets the best mining.
About new players being targets outside the rookie system. CCP actually changed the rules this year that griefing new player outside the rookie system can also be petitioned and each case will be dealt with on its own. As I'm at work I cant link the GM post that is on the forums here. Just google for: "EVE Online forum Big Brother is watching". It's the second the OP + second to last post that explains it.
True newbies need instruction. At the very least they need to be told "there are no more asteroids here, you need to go to another solar system." Otherwise, they figure THEY did something wrong and WASTE time trying to figure out what that something is. When they finally learn (if they do) that a mission sent you to an asteroid belt that didn't contain what you were sent to get, then THEY BLAME THE GAME. They decide the game is buggy. They decide the game is poorly designed. And so on.
How would a rookie KNOW to petition being ganked?
In my eyes, they quit the game because they don't understand the mechanics. No need to lead them by the hand. But you do have to EXPLAIN what is going on. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 16:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:I like the concept of EVE, however I see the established player base harassing legit newbies because they suffered their own form of hazing when they started out. It's all stupid, and costs CCP potential income, which is what gets my knickers in a bunch.
+
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:
True newbies need instruction. At the very least they need to be told "there are no more asteroids here, you need to go to another solar system." Otherwise, they figure THEY did something wrong and WASTE time trying to figure out what that something is. When they finally learn (if they do) that a mission sent you to an asteroid belt that didn't contain what you were sent to get, then THEY BLAME THE GAME. They decide the game is buggy. They decide the game is poorly designed. And so on.
How would a rookie KNOW to petition being ganked?
In my eyes, they quit the game because they don't understand the mechanics. No need to lead them by the hand. But you do have to EXPLAIN what is going on.
You obviously haven't been to rookie systems often lately.
I know most of them also hold veterans who will answer any question a new player can have. The issue is that most of them play EVE like a single player game and don't interact.
The ones that do ask their question, usually get a quick response in local by some veteran or a fellow newbies that knows what to do.
Making the tutorials a "hand holding" thing will do actually the opposite of what you think it will do. New players will get a false understanding of what EVE is and as soon as they do wonder out, they will be killed regardlessly or thrown in the deep just couple of hours/days later then is now the case.
As said, the main issue is....LACK of communication. It's a freaking MMO, socialize with people, CCP didn't make it impossible to close corp/local chat for no reason.
EDIT:
Hell. A lot of the time I hang out in a rookie system and it even has a veteran there who patrols the belts regular and if they are mined out. He announces it in local and tells newbies what to do. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 17:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
I play games to explore. That means, what I find fun is: learning and discovery. I am not part of a corp (yet!) because I still have so much to learn and do still. That does not mean I will NEVER be part of a corp. Once the solo thing gets boring, I'll progress to group type play styles to keep things fresh.
What you are advocating is having a corp or just a random hold my hand and lead me along. How is that any different?
You are right, I have not been in a rookie system since the day I finished doing my career tutorials. Well, other than to buy skill books that is. Personally, I find resorting to asking Local chat to tell me what to do a failure. I like figuring things out. I did in the end ask in Local how to get out of my jam. And I was told to fly two systems over to do my mining. And I did, the whole time thinking, "that's stupid game design".
As to your solution: What if a newbie is trying to find an asteroid to mine, and there is no "veteran" in Local at that particular time? Your solution is a Band-Aid, not a solution. |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:As to your solution: What if a newbie is trying to find an asteroid to mine, and there is no "veteran" in Local at that particular time? Then you use the Rookie Chat channel where there are always helpful players to answer your questions, including ISD representatives. Or the "Help" channel. Or your corp chat. Or this forum. I found that the EVE community is more helpful towards newbies than in any other game I've played. You can pretty much always find someone to answer your question.
The developers cannot predict any possible issue that a new player might have. Providing a help channel is a much more general solution than coding thousands of pop-ups.
(Oh and for that specific mission, you can just buy the tritanium on the market - or mine more in the first mission and then use these leftovers.) |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:
What you are advocating is having a corp or just a random hold my hand and lead me along. How is that any different?
Please, enlighten me where in my post I said that you should join a corp.
Please, do.
I said...be SOCIAL.
You do know you can talk people who are not in your corp???
Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
You are right, I have not been in a rookie system since the day I finished doing my career tutorials. Well, other than to buy skill books that is. Personally, I find resorting to asking Local chat to tell me what to do a failure. I like figuring things out. I did in the end ask in Local how to get out of my jam. And I was told to fly two systems over to do my mining. And I did, the whole time thinking, "that's stupid game design".
All those I's...aka PERSONAL experience and preference.
Last time I checked, personal preference doesn't equal everybody else's.
And if you find resorting asking Local chat as a failure...I think you fail.
I rather ask anybody to help me then to stay clueless and try to re-invent the wheel by maybe making it round this time.
There is only 1 stupid question, that is the one you were afraid to ask. No matter how stupid a question might look in your opinion, NOT asking it is more stupid in the end. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote: Even if the rookie jumps into the local asteroid belt and there are asteroids to mine, Aura (or whatever the tutorial's AI name is) should STILL pop up and let you know that it's possible there may not be any asteroids in the belt, and that in those cases, it is necessary to go to another asteroid belt in this solar system, or possibly even in other solar systems.
Dead easy to code. Nothing complicated.
With your reasoning...
Aura should pop up if all manufacturing slots are busy. Aura should pop up if all research slots are taken. Aura should pop up if a certain ship or module isn't available in system.
Ergo...your idea is class A hand holding...EVE isn't that kind of game. EVE requires you to do some research or ask for help. If you fail at those 2 simple things, maybe EVE isn't the game for you. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:Kerrec Snowmane wrote:As to your solution: What if a newbie is trying to find an asteroid to mine, and there is no "veteran" in Local at that particular time? Then you use the Rookie Chat channel where there are always helpful players to answer your questions, including ISD representatives. Or the "Help" channel. Or your corp chat. Or this forum. I found that the EVE community is more helpful towards newbies than in any other game I've played. You can pretty much always find someone to answer your question. The developers cannot predict any possible issue that a new player might have. Providing a help channel is a much more general solution than coding thousands of pop-ups. (Oh and for that specific mission, you can just buy the tritanium on the market - or mine more in the first mission and then use these leftovers.)
This.
See...enough solutions are available as we speak. For those who play a multiplayer game.
And I'm talking from experience about this.
The first 3 or 4 months in EVE, I tried to master everything solo. And failed at most things because I was clueless. After I started asking questions, the pieces fell into place. I learned a lot (and still do) by talking to other players. Even after 3 years, if I come across something that I don't know or not know for sure, I just open a chat channel with other helpful players (EVE Tutors) and ask it. Answer usually follows very quickly after the question. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
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Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 18:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
I got past the mining tutorial hurdle because I stuck to it. It took that bit of "stupid game mechanics" as far as a tutorial goes, to convince me to dig into the game with Google, and on forums like these and Eve University.
However, I am an older person who, I believe, has much more patience than the average gamer. How many potentially paying customers did not subscribe because they found the game mechanics to be stupid?
I'm not asking for a 100% safe zone. I'm not asking to take away your playstyle. All I'm asking for in instruction for those players that are truly rookies. How hard is it to even change the wording of the mission itself, to point out that it may be necessary to go to another solar system to find a non-empty asteroid belt? Is that so hard? Will it ruin the caliber of EVE player you claim should belong to EVE? Are you afraid of change, even something so minor? Or are you the type of person that feels it is necessary to perpetuate the suffering? You suffered, so everyone else must too?
Should Aura pop up to point out that all manufacturing slots are busy? Yes, if it's part of a tutorial. Should Aura pop up to point out [whatever], YES, if it's part of a TUTORIAL. Otherwise, NO.
If it's part of a tutorial. There is a difference.
If the wording of the mission is changed to indicate that I have to explore different solar systems to find the resource I want, that is perfectly in line with the game mechanics.
EDIT: If it was the intent of CPP to have rookies struggle to figure out basic things, there WOULD NOT BE tutorials. |
Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse Cannibal Empire
2867
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 19:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:I got past the mining tutorial hurdle because I stuck to it. It took that bit of "stupid game mechanics" as far as a tutorial goes, to convince me to dig into the game with Google, and on forums like these and Eve University.
However, I am an older person who, I believe, has much more patience than the average gamer. How many potentially paying customers did not subscribe because they found the game mechanics to be stupid?
I'm not asking for a 100% safe zone. I'm not asking to take away your playstyle. All I'm asking for in instruction for those players that are truly rookies. How hard is it to even change the wording of the mission itself, to point out that it may be necessary to go to another solar system to find a non-empty asteroid belt? Is that so hard? Will it ruin the caliber of EVE player you claim should belong to EVE? Are you afraid of change, even something so minor? Or are you the type of person that feels it is necessary to perpetuate the suffering? You suffered, so everyone else must too?
Should Aura pop up to point out that all manufacturing slots are busy? Yes, if it's part of a tutorial. Should Aura pop up to point out [whatever], YES, if it's part of a TUTORIAL. Otherwise, NO.
If it's part of a tutorial. There is a difference.
If the wording of the mission is changed to indicate that I have to explore different solar systems to find the resource I want, that is perfectly in line with the game mechanics.
EDIT: If it was the intent of CPP to have rookies struggle to figure out basic things, there WOULD NOT BE tutorials.
So you would rather be spoon fed?
I think after three years of EVE the Game still tells me now and again I need to do the TUT missions.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 19:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've read the pirate thread in crime and punishment, so I have some respect for you Cannibal.
But is it too much to ask for the mission giver to include "you may have to go to other solar systems if asteroid belts in this system are empty."
I mean, that sentence alone implies that you have to explore to find resources, and it implies that asteroid belts CAN be empty. Things that fit just fine in a tutorial.
Am I really asking for too much? Is that being spoon fed? |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
732
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 19:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. New Citizens Q&A is just not the appropriate place for this discussion. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2635
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 20:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:I got past the mining tutorial hurdle because I stuck to it. It took that bit of "stupid game mechanics" as far as a tutorial goes, to convince me to dig into the game with Google, and on forums like these and Eve University.
However, I am an older person who, I believe, has much more patience than the average gamer. How many potentially paying customers did not subscribe because they found the game mechanics to be stupid?
I'm not asking for a 100% safe zone. I'm not asking to take away your playstyle. All I'm asking for in instruction for those players that are truly rookies. How hard is it to even change the wording of the mission itself, to point out that it may be necessary to go to another solar system to find a non-empty asteroid belt? Is that so hard? Will it ruin the caliber of EVE player you claim should belong to EVE? Are you afraid of change, even something so minor? Or are you the type of person that feels it is necessary to perpetuate the suffering? You suffered, so everyone else must too?
Should Aura pop up to point out that all manufacturing slots are busy? Yes, if it's part of a tutorial. Should Aura pop up to point out [whatever], YES, if it's part of a TUTORIAL. Otherwise, NO.
If it's part of a tutorial. There is a difference.
If the wording of the mission is changed to indicate that I have to explore different solar systems to find the resource I want, that is perfectly in line with the game mechanics.
EDIT: If it was the intent of CPP to have rookies struggle to figure out basic things, there WOULD NOT BE tutorials.
You do know that CCP doesn't want to target the general I-like-any-WoW-like-MMO players.
Their target audience is much smaller and they try to target the "older" gamers. The ones with patience and who don't mind doing a bit of reading to find out how mechanics work.
Hence why the impatient people leave...Because EVE isn't the game for them.
Much like I will never play WoW or any other fantasy, scripted from front to back MMO. Because I like a challenge and those games lack that. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
329
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
To be fair a lot of us who are training alts for various purposes (titan holders, super pilots etc) have our alts sitting in the newbie system and freely help out... I know I do, since she can't fly the avatar just yet i have her in a newbie system helping out and she doesn't have the stigma of being a pirate. Its funny how often lady has got.. you are a pirate i dont trust you.
I can see both sides of the argument.
Yes it is silly to strip mine the newbie systems in hulks and mackinaws. But at the same time, sandbox.
And eve isntabout the tutorial holding your hand, yes it is about teaching you. Could they add a little, if you dont see any asteroids try a different belt/system.. sure BUT as J'Poll said they cant have popups and info about everything in eve. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
671
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 21:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
easy solution, make strip miners not work in 1.0 systems. Easy to implement too, and would hardly hurt anyone.
If rookies are warping to belts in their starting systems and finding no ore, thats a problem. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2636
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 22:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Batelle wrote:easy solution, make strip miners not work in 1.0 systems. Easy to implement too, and would hardly hurt anyone.
If rookies are warping to belts in their starting systems and finding no ore, thats a problem.
Only issue. Most rookie systems are NOT 1.0
Don't get me wrong. Why would you strip mine a belt in rookie systems, when there are over 7000 other systems to mine in. But the big part that makes EVE, EVE is the sandbox part. Putting restrictions on stuff is against the idea of a sandbox.
The tutorial actually makes you fly from the Aura system (where you get your ship and basic gun) to the career agents. So the new players do know how jumping systems work.
Maybe just add a bit of info about asteroid belts (they can be depleted, they respawn during downtime) to the tutorial pop ups you get now (or add it in the mission text). But no restrictions or annoying pop ups (even if they are just for new players).
But IMO the most powerful option is already there....the other 20.000 to 40.000 character that are logged in... Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1482
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 22:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't support banning strip mining from rookie systems, although I do support alternative measures. Having the tutorial mining missions send you to a deadspace pocket to mine mission-only ore isn't an unreasonable solution, but I think the idea I like best is to add a line to the mission text somewhere in red that states the useful info that asteroid belts can be depleted by mining them, that there may not be any in-system and that you will have to look somewhere else for one if this happens to be the case.
There is really no way you can expect a fresh newbie to have any idea of that, and pointing it out in the missions Aura assigns isn't really as hand-holdy as people want to think it is. There's a difference between EVE being difficult and EVE being unnecessarily stressful. |
Good Apollo BS4
Pew Pew Scrubs The Silent One's
25
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 05:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I don't support banning strip mining from rookie systems, although I do support alternative measures. Having the tutorial mining missions send you to a deadspace pocket to mine mission-only ore isn't an unreasonable solution, but I think the idea I like best is to add a line to the mission text somewhere in red that states the useful info that asteroid belts can be depleted by mining them, that there may not be any in-system and that you will have to look somewhere else for one if this happens to be the case.
There is really no way you can expect a fresh newbie to have any idea of that, and pointing it out in the missions Aura assigns isn't really as hand-holdy as people want to think it is. There's a difference between EVE being difficult and EVE being unnecessarily stressful.
That would work, or other persons post on disabling strippers for .whatever ... But then what happens when person goes to .5 and can't find ore in belt? Same thing...
They google.
Or newbie corp or help chat.
:) or petition lol.
Don't think adding line of text would hurt to tutorial but there are so many things then... Click navigation, C to fix camera, there's tons of "did not know _______" threads and posts... Ccp would be fielding requests for so many things... Eve would never get quality updates and new ships etc balancing (((said deadpan))) |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
597
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Posted - 2013.12.19 08:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
The problem here is not strip miners. It is the archaic down time based asteroid respawn system. Change All asteroid belts over to 3-5 respawning 'Asteroid Clusters' that work similar to the null sec industry anomalies, except obviously contain only appropriate materials for the system the same as the belts do. This then solves the 'stripped out because the newbie logged on near downtime' issue, while also making the 'belts' more logical. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
127
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 11:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane
[u wrote:Because, in what game EVER, has a tutorial sent you to an area where the thing you need to find is not actually there?[/u] .
I've had it happen in plenty of games. Sad, but after it happens a few times you either adapt or leave. A lot of games will greatly increase the spawn rate of quest items to counter this, but in this case, it isn't just some newbie quest item that is useless elsewhere, the asteroids you mine are useful anywhere, so greatly increasing the spawn rate is a bad response.
Maybe a comment in the tutorial info window that people don't read anyway. Heck, even without it, resources get mined out in any game I've played, it should be something you already expect, not a surprise at all.
Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.12.19 12:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Batelle wrote:easy solution, make strip miners not work in 1.0 systems. Easy to implement too, and would hardly hurt anyone.
If rookies are warping to belts in their starting systems and finding no ore, thats a problem.
Why not just reduce their yield based on system's security status? So they would be only 50% effective in 0.9 and 1.0 systems, maybe 60% in 0.8 and so on (so that they wouldn't be 100% effective in any of the highsec). Of course, there will be people using Ventures to deplete belts, but since Venture has much lower bay than Retriever or Mackinaw, in reality it won't be much better. |
Kate stark
993
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 12:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
in that case, i want guns banned in all systems lower than 1.0 so i don't have to worry about being shot at. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Kerrec Snowmane
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.12.19 13:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
It's not about breaking your sandbox. No one is asking for 100% immunity as a rookie. I also don't advocate having the rookie areas have different rules, like strip mining not working.
What I want to see, is an Aura pop up (only once!) when you enter your first asteroid belt when you have the mining mission, that says, "If there are no asteroids left, you may have to go to another belt. You may also need to travel to another solar system to find asteroids to mine."
If that is too "hand holding", then at the very least, change the wording of the mission itself to INSTRUCT a rookie to the fact that asteroid belts may be depleted and it may be required to travel to other solar systems to find some. If a rookie doesn't read the mission, then it's their fault. |
SKINE DMZ
Stay Frosty.
274
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
-1, seriously, try a jumpgate... then mine over there. I disagree |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
677
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 18:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Batelle wrote:easy solution, make strip miners not work in 1.0 systems. Easy to implement too, and would hardly hurt anyone.
If rookies are warping to belts in their starting systems and finding no ore, thats a problem. Why not just reduce their yield based on system's security status? So they would be only 50% effective in 0.9 and 1.0 systems, maybe 60% in 0.8 and so on (so that they wouldn't be 100% effective in any of the highsec). Of course, there will be people using Ventures to deplete belts, but since Venture has much lower bay than Retriever or Mackinaw, in reality it won't be much better.
Because that's a stupid idea you came up with to spite miners, not something aimed at keeping rookie systems usable. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2637
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 19:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:It's not about breaking your sandbox. No one is asking for 100% immunity as a rookie. I also don't advocate having the rookie areas have different rules, like strip mining not working.
What I want to see, is an Aura pop up (only once!) when you enter your first asteroid belt when you have the mining mission, that says, "If there are no asteroids left, you may have to go to another belt. You may also need to travel to another solar system to find asteroids to mine."
If that is too "hand holding", then at the very least, change the wording of the mission itself to INSTRUCT a rookie to the fact that asteroid belts may be depleted and it may be required to travel to other solar systems to find some. If a rookie doesn't read the mission, then it's their fault.
As you keep asking for your handholding pop ups....
I keep reminding you that EVE is a MMO.
MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online.
Play it with other people (even if that just means chatting with them) and you can find out 99.9% of the stuff because you just asked it. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
33
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Posted - 2013.12.19 21:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
I haven't read the whole thing - however, I would say ban STRIP miners in starter systems - you can even fly your fancy barge/exhumer there - just not activate the strips...... and/or newbies are always offered a mission belt in the noob system.....
my 2 cents |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
143
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Posted - 2013.12.19 21:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kerrec Snowmane wrote:It's not about breaking your sandbox. No one is asking for 100% immunity as a rookie. I also don't advocate having the rookie areas have different rules, like strip mining not working.
What I want to see, is an Aura pop up (only once!) when you enter your first asteroid belt when you have the mining mission, that says, "If there are no asteroids left, you may have to go to another belt. You may also need to travel to another solar system to find asteroids to mine."
If that is too "hand holding", then at the very least, change the wording of the mission itself to INSTRUCT a rookie to the fact that asteroid belts may be depleted and it may be required to travel to other solar systems to find some. If a rookie doesn't read the mission, then it's their fault.
Popupz are the most annoying thing since the interwebz was created and you would want to add more of them? You simply cannot add a popup for every contingency that might occur in EVE. No one would read them cause there would be hundreds. That is why channels like rookie help have been created and as a new player you automatically land in that channel when you open the game. Hell, as an older player I cant even enter the channel to have a laugh or bust some balls, only dedicated help personnel are there to hold your hand and get even the most mentally challenged pilots through their trial.
You said earlier you only made it through because you are an older player with a lot of patience. Well, welcome, we are all older players with a ton of patience. Maybe you read that EVE has the highest average age of any MMO? Why? Because the game is demanding enough to attract that audience. The tutorial thus reflects well what the actual game is like and we like that it filters out the teenage scum that has ruined and dumbed down other games. And don't worry, those older players revert to their inner child so much so that it feels like you are being harassed by 12 year olds any way if you stick around long enough. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
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Khoul Ay'd
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
140
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Posted - 2013.12.20 00:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Strip miners and starter systems need a divorce, call it irreconcilable differences. If a player can afford a strip miner and a barge they are no longer a beginner, they may not know much but enough to leave the kiddie pool. The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2639
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 05:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Then also ban any person who is trying go fly a BC / BS from rookie systems.
As for same logic as above. Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Kate stark
998
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Khoul Ay'd wrote:Strip miners and starter systems need a divorce, call it irreconcilable differences. If a player can afford a strip miner and a barge they are no longer a beginner, they may not know much but enough to leave the kiddie pool.
so week old players, that are still forced in to the rookie help chat thing, have no place in starter zones? takes a week of training, and somewhere just over about 20 hours of mining to get yourself in a retriever with strip miners. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
commander aze
Sub--Zero Catastrophic Uprising
39
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
so 2 systems out there are rocks... fly there and set up shop.... lazyness is no excuss. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1355
|
Posted - 2013.12.22 22:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Just make CONCORD not respond to illegal aggression in rookie systems, unless the target is a frigate (including the Venture), a destroyer, a shuttle or a pod.
Problem solved. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
459
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 00:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
The last thing we need is yet something else to be banned from high sec. There are other ways to get ore to mine than static belts.. part of the noobish learning process is discovering these. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Coyote Laughing
13
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 03:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'm only asking for a ban on 24 systems total, out of all of high security space. They could be made illegal goods, but that is unnecessarily punitive.
While most miners I know could adapt to a "environmental ban in highly populated" 0.9 and 1.0 systems, the career and tutorial systems would need to be upgraded to 0.9 and 1.0 respectively for this idea to work (not that I have a problem with that).
However, many players I know travelling from nullsec and wormhole space are looking for skill books, which is a problem if their security and/or faction standings is marginal.
If CCP was to make such a blanket change to security status, they at least need to add some more NPC career corporation stations in the same security status nearby.
Now going off topic.
Also, could we see the exploration tutorial changed for a celestial agent of the NPC career corporation - Rulie Isoryn sure gets around and some people think they have to go and visit her in person at her home station.
What we could do is move the exploration agent out of the station and have aura direct the new players to scan for the celestial agent and then hand the courier package over in "moving onwards", the 4th Aura tutorial.
I'd also like to see a gas mining tutorial with a civilian gas miner (it only needs to be some inert and worthless gas), as well as a civilian water ice miner to get people familiar with the concepts (both which can fit in the venture).
There are only 6 exploration tutorials, so perhaps a static wormhole should be placed in there leading to a nearby hisec system with an objective to be found on the other side.
The final tutorial should possibly lead into NPC nullsec space and use deep core mining, or at least supplying morphite (which can bought from the markets) - so long as it has plenty of warnings and no deadline on completion.
l8r \o/ |
Coyote Laughing
13
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 04:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Also continuing off-topic.
Anchoring a container is another skill that the exploration tutorial could cover - although that would be tricky in 0.9 space, so it would have to merely direct the character to probe down and find a secure can belonging to the career corporation in question (with a unique password supplied by the agent so as not to flag themselves as suspects when they take stuff out), containing a proof of discovery document.
If you make the 9th mission scanning down a particular NPC enemy hiding out in system (perhaps in an industrial with one medium gun), this would be about 10 meaningful tutorials with a modest difficulty level. l8r \o/ |
Coyote Laughing
13
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 04:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Again, off topic.
On reflection, it would probably be pushing the new player too much to system scan - just have the celestial agent sitting on grid just inside the system (via the nearest gate).
This would mean the first exploration tutorial would mean something still (as much as a career tutorial can mean anything).
Also, the exploration tutorials hands out two ships - directing the player to go collect them from the station would encourage continuity with the other career agents (as a rookie ship wouldn't have the capacity to take it). l8r \o/ |
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