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Vis Aldent
Quafe Art Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
4
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Posted - 2013.12.20 02:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
[This is the place to discuss skills and training plans for your EVE character(s).]
The first error is about trying to train Cynosural Field Theory V on an Alt with less than 900k SP. One of the problem is that:
It is required to use a Covert Cynosural Field Generator I.
Generates an undetectable cynosural field which only Black Ops jump drives can lock on to. Can only be fitted on Black Ops, Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers and Force Recon Ships, as well as Strategic Cruisers equipped with Covert Reconfiguration Subsystems.
> I thought I could learn that under the 900k SP which would require no extra clone upgrades. > I am now at 1,393,037 SP which is 2 clone grades above the 900k SP minimum.
On a second note: Cynosural Field Theory I works for Cynosural Field Generator I, without the Covert ability. It costs 500 liquid ozone to use at that level 1.
It is also possible to learn this under the 900k SP and so not require any Medical Clone Upgrade.
I believe it only works for ships to lock onto in the same system although it may work nearby gates from other systems. I am not too sure about that.
I tried to find info on it but I couldn't verify anything yet.
2nd problem is: I was going to learn how to pilot a Black Ops ship however: It can only allow Covert Ops ships (as listed above) to jump through it.
That plan was quickly stopped since I was learning Force Recon and have to spend more SP to finish that study.
There are a few other puzzles to solve such as whether a Freighter pilot is better to learn Rorqual piloting than an Orca pilot with implants.
The same similar dilemna occurs in deciding which pilot to choose for carrier capital ship and super-caps. The choice lies whether to train a Battleship pilot, Orca pilot or Freighter pilot. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
213
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Posted - 2013.12.20 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I need to write a monologue. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
865
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Posted - 2013.12.24 16:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
send 5 million isk to your cyno alt for clones, you cheapskate. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Vis Aldent
Quafe Art Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
14
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Posted - 2013.12.24 17:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Batelle wrote:send 5 million isk to your cyno alt for clones, you cheapskate. He already had more than that, but I will have to make him loose SP.
That means that I will have to be pod-jumping and not cover for his SP after dying.
My 1st Cyno Alt will then act as a non-covert cyno. It might be worth to transfer him account for $20 after paying for Dual Training for 1 month.
Either way, unless the fuel cost is reduced, it seems that learning up to Cyno IV or V was too many SP to expand. (Which it is: - Cynosural Field Theory ... 10% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for module activation per skill level. ...
I also have a newer 2nd Cyno, which is on a main pilot however. He learned Covert Ops and can fly Covert ships and as such would be more suited to learn Cyno V. Except for 1 important thing: - He needs the training time to be devoted to other skills for now, and probably the next month.
It takes about 1 month to learn Cyno V. Also, his Electronics Skills or CPU Management skills already being at level V, he doesn't need 1 more month for it.
I'm also training a 3rd Covert Ops pod pilot. That would also make a potential Covert Cyno. |
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
15
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Posted - 2013.12.24 20:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sounds like you don't actually have anything to use those cyno alts for.... but here goes:
- When using a non-covert cyno, skill level only matters for fuel consumption. You need cyno 1 to use the module, so that is 450 ozone.
- The standard for disposable cyno alts: Any non-Ammar character. Train Cyno 4, can fit enough ozone in a rookie ship for your cyno, only cost when it dies is the cyno and ozone. Well under the 900k limit.
- Trying to get back under 900k can be hard, as often the skill you loose is one you actually need, you then end up training right back over 900k.
- Cyno 5 for covert cynos is useful if you have a Black Ops to bridge with, otherwise, it is pretty much useless beyond reducing your ozone use to 250 on a regular Cyno.
- The only skill that determines how far someone can be and jump to your cyno is the Jump Drive Calibration skill on the jumping ship (Assuming its fueled)
- You can never jump to a cyno in the same system you are currently in, though you can always jump out to a 2nd cyno, and then back in, if for some reason burning fuel is better then just warping.
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Vis Aldent
Quafe Art Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
16
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Posted - 2013.12.26 03:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Secret Squirrell wrote:Sounds like you don't actually have anything to use those cyno alts for.... but here goes:
- When using a non-covert cyno, skill level only matters for fuel consumption. You need cyno 1 to use the module, so that is 450 ozone.
- The standard for disposable cyno alts: Any non-Ammar character. Train Cyno 4, can fit enough ozone in a rookie ship for your cyno, only cost when it dies is the cyno and ozone. Well under the 900k limit.
- Trying to get back under 900k can be hard, as often the skill you loose is one you actually need, you then end up training right back over 900k.
- Cyno 5 for covert cynos is useful if you have a Black Ops to bridge with, otherwise, it is pretty much useless beyond reducing your ozone use to 250 on a regular Cyno.
- The only skill that determines how far someone can be and jump to your cyno is the Jump Drive Calibration skill on the jumping ship (Assuming its fueled)
- You can never jump to a cyno in the same system you are currently in, though you can always jump out to a 2nd cyno, and then back in, if for some reason burning fuel is better then just warping.
Finally, that is more like it.
I got penalized on pod pilot that didn't deserved to. The skill lost or SP doesn't matter instantly, and the abilities gained before still work. However, if you try to learn a new skill that requires it, it won't work.
I have no ship with Jump Drive Calibration as of yet.
I don't understand the last you mentioned yet since I thought cyno worked in the same system only. I will have to test it where I may avoid getting killed to find out.
I am still trying to mine Ice to try to figure it out.
I am also trying to find if I should buy an Orca, or if the risk of loosing it outweigh it's utility yet. |
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
15
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Posted - 2013.12.26 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:
I don't understand the last you mentioned yet since I thought cyno worked in the same system only. I will have to test it where I may avoid getting killed to find out.
Nope, Cyno's exist to allow capital ships to move between systems, as they are unable to use gates. You form a Fleet, one character has the cyno, the other is in the capital ship. The player with the cyno lights in in the destination system, the capital ship can then jump to the cyno, assuming the cyno is in range, and will appear 5km from the cyno in a random direction. To give you an idea of how far a capital can jump, see http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Archon,5/Rancer for an idea of max skilled carrier range. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2014.03.18 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Carrier can go far.
I was in Rancer btw.
I've worked out a Covert Cyno but the pilot can't fly the ship to equip the device. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3284
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Posted - 2014.03.19 05:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Covert cyno alts don't die, as the covert cyno duration is short (60 seconds on Covert Ops, which can be made very hard to probe, or 30 seconds on Recons and Strategic Cruisers) and not broadcasted to the entire system (everyone on grid can see it though).
Ergo, covert cyno pilots don't need to be below 900k SP.
However, note that Cyno 5 is required for Amarr pilots wanting to use a rookie ship with a regular cyno without cargo expansion. All other races only need level 4. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2014.03.19 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Covert cyno alts don't die, as the covert cyno duration is short (60 seconds on Covert Ops, which can be made very hard to probe, or 30 seconds on Recons and Strategic Cruisers) and not broadcasted to the entire system (everyone on grid can see it though). Ergo, covert cyno pilots don't need to be below 900k SP. However, note that Cyno 5 is required for Amarr pilots wanting to use a rookie ship with a regular cyno without cargo expansion. All other races only need level 4. I thought it was better to use a Rookie ship for Cynos. This was until I found out that Covert Cynos were only 60 seconds Activation time / duration. For 60 seconds Activation time / duration of Covert Cynos compared to the 600s Activation time / duration of Covert Cyno.
The only problem is to get the Covert ship to go through which it must do to light the Covert Cyno. I'd still prefer getting a Scout ship, even one without Cyno to get the Force Recon Ship through.
BTW, why all ships data has been removed? Thread: Black Ops the last piece of the PvE puzzle? Even the Cached versions are updated, good thing that I extracted the data and put it in the above thread.
I also read that the fuel required is only 50 units of Liquid Ozone compared to 500 for Regular Cyno. With 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation that is equal to 10 units only.
There remain one last detail. How to get back to High sec? You can't light a Covert Cyno there, so it has to be the nearest system to High-sec...
As for the grid you refered to, is it related to this?: GRID MANIPULATION |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3731
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Posted - 2014.03.19 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:[This is the place to discuss skills and training plans for your EVE character(s).]
The first error is about trying to train Cynosural Field Theory V on an Alt with less than 900k SP.
This is pretty daft. Cyno V is a Rank 5 skill, meaning it takes (5*256k=) 1.28m SP to train to 5. It also has the prereq of CPU Management V (which is another 256k sp).
Vis Aldent wrote: .... I want to use a Covert Cynosural Field Generator I. ... Generates an undetectable cynosural field which only Black Ops jump drives can lock on to. Can only be fitted on Black Ops, Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers and Force Recon Ships, as well as Strategic Cruisers equipped with Covert Reconfiguration Subsystems.
The minimum skilled ship to fit the covert cyno on would be a Covert Ops (or SB). This requires: Racial Frigate V (Rank 2) Covops Electronic Upgrades V (Rank 2) CPU Management V (already trained for Cyno)
So, we are looking at 256k * ( 2 + 2 ) = another 1m more in SP (and then some).
So, your covert cyno alt needs roughly 3m SP in total.
Vis Aldent wrote: On a second note: Cynosural Field Theory I works for Cynosural Field Generator I, without the Covert ability. It costs 500 liquid ozone to use at that level 1.
This is incorrect. At level 0, the Cyno requires 500 units. At level 1 (which is the prereq), it requires 450 units. 400, 350, 300, 250 for levels 2, 3, 4, & 5, respectively.
Vis Aldent wrote: It is also possible to learn this under the 900k SP and so not require any Medical Clone Upgrade.
Yes. Noobship is free to fly. CPU Management is 256k SP. Cyno 4 is 230k SP. The cyno would then require 300 units of ozone that take up 120m3 of space. All noobships except the Impairor have the cargo space and fitting to carry the 300 units of ozone and fit the cyno. Alternatively, you could train hull upgrades 1 and fit a cargo expander to make the ibis work too.
Your other problems aren't problems. They are choices. Choose wisely.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3284
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Posted - 2014.03.19 18:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
You can't fit a covert cyno to a rookie ship, only the ships bonused for it.
You can fit a regular cyno to a rookie ship, or any ship. Of course it has a 10 minute base activation time, and broadcasts to the entire system.
Black Ops can bridge or jump to either. |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2014.03.19 21:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote:There remain one last detail. How to get back to High sec? You can't light a Covert Cyno there, so it has to be the nearest system to High-sec...
1st, thanks for the replies, I will add likes to it.
2nd, I forgot that Black Ops could indeed Covert Cyno to High Sec.
It also means that there is no need to the nearest system to High-sec...
Tau Cabalander wrote:... Black Ops can bridge or jump to either. Are you sure that Black Ops can bridge to a regular Cyno? I guess they may be able to jump to a regular Cyno, though I have never tried. I think any ships can jump to a regular cyno in the same system. It's almost like warping although it is different.
I am not sure if a ship can jump to an adjacent system cyno. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3286
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Posted - 2014.03.20 04:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote:2nd, I forgot that Black Ops could indeed Covert Cyno to High Sec. No cyno works in hisec.
It is so easy with a covert cyno to a low sec border system and warp to the gate.
With a regular cyno, dropping the cyno on the docking ring of lowsec station is best.
Oiras Isimazu wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:...Black Ops can bridge or jump to either. Are you sure that Black Ops can bridge to a regular Cyno? Yes. Only ships that can use a covert bridge (jump harmonics = 2) can be bridged though.
Oiras Isimazu wrote:I am not sure if a ship can jump to an adjacent system cyno. Yes. There is no minimum distance apart from not being able to jump to the same system you are already in. |
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Let's find out |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3604
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lar Tadaruwa wrote:Let's find out Feel free.
I encourage people to test for themselves. SiSi can be very convenient for this.
If you want to know how much fuel bridging takes, I even posted the math. |
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