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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 18:51:00 -
[1]
Lets see if i can tax some quality brains out there :)
Here is the challenge;
The ship needs to be fitted to run fire support during level 4 missions with BS's and the likes as gang mates.
I do not have tactical shield manip skill for another 2 weeks (don't ask)
The ship is a caracal :)
whats the best fitting with these tight restrictions
(yes i am nuts)
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Natural Selection Developer
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Vexoth
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Posted - 2006.03.09 19:17:00 -
[2]
So you are just helping friends out with Level 4s and don't expect to be doing any tanking? Fit for max damage. If you let your friends warp in first they should get all the aggro. Fit a medium shield booster just incase.
I forgot how many hi/med/low slots a Caracal has, but it would be something like:
HI: Your best heavy launchers
MED: MED shield booster, afterburner, target painter, whatever else
LOW: Ballistic Control Units, whatever else.
Find out what type of NPCs you will be fighting and fit whatever missiles they are more vulnerable to. Webifiers might help against npc interceptors
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 19:22:00 -
[3]
5 meds, can't do target painting, i don't think, or afterburners, don't have the skill.
You're right about the not tanking, never gonna happen with 1300 shields and not tactical shield manip.
I've fitted 5 heavy malkuths, i've got a med booster. Question is, what best to do with the 2 lows and remaining 4 meds.
Fighting lev 4 guristas.
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Natural Selection Developer
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Active1313
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Posted - 2006.03.09 19:44:00 -
[4]
Ballistic Control Units in your Lows
Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 400 pixels in width - Jacques |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.03.09 19:47:00 -
[5]
You realy really need to take 30 minutes of training and get afteburner 1
Wherever you went - here you are.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 19:58:00 -
[6]
Hmm, why for afterburners, i can't say i need them?
So can anyone beat this setup then?
HI's 5x Malkuth heavies
Med's 1 med booster
4 Empty
Lows 2 balistics
Someone must have the best combo to fill the other slots?
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Natural Selection Developer
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xenorx
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Hmm, why for afterburners, i can't say i need them?
So can anyone beat this setup then?
HI's 5x Malkuth heavies
Med's 1 med booster
4 Empty
Lows 2 balistics
Someone must have the best combo to fill the other slots?
Consider using Tracking Disrupters in those empty Mids. You will help out your friends a lot if the NPC's cant hit them.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:09:00 -
[8]
Hm, interesting, what do you recomend?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Zembla
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:20:00 -
[9]
Eh? When my character was 1.5 months old I was happily getting my first Osprey. Took me months before I even touched a lvl 4. Times certainly seem to have changed.
How can you NOT have the afterburner skill? It is kind of important to fill up those other 4 med slots sensibly. Because as soon as you get aggroed by those guys... your Caracal will be redecorating the rest of the surroundings, and you'll want to do anything to delay that.
So, my advice:
Hi: 5 Heavy Launchers
Med: 1 AB, 1 Shield Booster, 1 Target Painter, 1 Shield Extender and under other circumstances a hardener, though maybe you might try another target painter or a sensor booster there
Low: 2 BCU
Doing lvl 4's in a Caracal when you're 1.5months old is a bit like trying to have sex when you're a 3 year old.
<Z>
Spread the Z
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Zeik Zabiba
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:29:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zeik Zabiba on 09/03/2006 20:29:11
Hi: 3 heavys , 2 assault (help with those pesky frigs)
Meds: 1AB , 1 target painter , 1 med sheild booster , 1 large extender and whatever else , web maybe
Low: 2 Ballistic Control Units
There you go , should work , and get the skill for afterburner and all , they are basic and come in handy.
/mav
edit. Stupid alt thing never changed 
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 20:30:00 -
[11]
Eww, not sure i like the 3 year old analogy, but i know i'm nuts doing lev 4's in a carcal.
They're not my missions, i'm not a mission runner person, i go on corp mates level 3 and 4 missions :)
Ok, i can use passive hardeners (shield resistance amplifiers) just not the active hardeners.
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Natural Selection Developer
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Jacinto Naysmith
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:20:00 -
[12]
Sounds like you need to train up a few combat oriented skills, most players pick up afterburners within their first day or two.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:26:00 -
[13]
Yeah, still not seeing the need for AB's yet.
But i am getting a load of skills in about two weeks, i'm just in the middle of a learning skill marathon, as all the skills i need are all mem and intell based, i'm boosting them first.
OK, trying this setup as it fits with my current skills;
5 malkuth heavies
2 kinetic amplifiers
1 thermal amp
1 booster amp
1 med booster
1 BCU
1 Shield relay
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Natural Selection Developer
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:29:00 -
[14]
AFs are really useful when your in support.
Im sure you can actually get by with no modules except guns/launchers so saying you "dont need them" isnt saying anything in a thread like this.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:37:00 -
[15]
Hmm, so Ab's in mid slot? spose they'd let you get within shield transport range? What are the ranges of the shield transporters anyway?
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Icesail
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Posted - 2006.03.09 21:50:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Icesail on 09/03/2006 21:51:51
I bring all my new corp mates to L4s with me, no matter which mission. I tell them to bring frigates for the first few times, than their ship of choice. I do have a standard warning I post in gang chat about making sure they are insured or not too attached to their ship, since there is a good chance they will loose it. I have been doing that for over 6 months on a daily basis, and so far only lost one of new players frigates when he got carried away and aggroed a large group.....
By bringing the new players not only make isk, so they can fit their ships correctly, they also learn how to run missions, which saves them from loosing their ships when they do their own missions (no matter what level).
Now back on topic.
The main thing to remember is that YOUR SHIP IS EXPENDABLE, actually think of it as you already lost it. So fit it with things you can afford to loose.
The one thing I dont know is if they put you on frigate or cruiser duty. Either way, for highs go heavies if on cruiser duty or assaults if on frigate duty. For lows, 2 BCUs. For mids, I do recommend an AB (so u can help looting faster or to get in range faster), a shield booster, the rest painters and disruptors if you can, if not, anything will do. Shield extenders could be nice, at least would enable to survive a few more hits if things go south.
Have fun, L4s are lots of fun for new players (have your tried to run 30 L1 missions.... is almost as bad as mining...) and a nice break from the early grind of L1s and L2s, also a great source of income, not to mention a way to teach them the all important risk vs reward.... The rewards for them are great (more isk in 1 mission than that can make in 2 months) but the risk is also Huge (you get aggroed in a L4 flying a frigate and you are pretty much as good as dead).
Good luck and fly safe,
Icesail
-My mining setup is a Raven with Torpedos-
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AngelWolff
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Posted - 2006.03.09 22:01:00 -
[17]
Lose the tank - you're not going to be able last long at all if you attract some serious attention on a level 4 mission. As long as your buddies take the flack you can worry about damage dealing and leave the tanking to them.
Vexoth has the right idea here.
HI: 5x Heavy launchers (consider swapping one or maybe 2 out for assault launchers if you find you are having frig trouble)
MED: Medium shield booster, 10mn Afterburner (useful for staying at range if things get unfriendly and for zipping around for the loot after combat), Target Painter, Sensor Booster, then either a Shield Extender or Disruptor in the last slot.
LOW: 2x Ballistic Control Units
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2006.03.09 22:45:00 -
[18]
Which rat types?
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Laughlyn Vaughns
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Posted - 2006.03.10 00:09:00 -
[19]
i'd get sum skills trained up really, Lv4's aint exaclty a walk in the park even if ur just a wingman, if u shoot summat then summats gonan shoot back and in Lv4's it'll probably be a lot harder than u hit them especially by the sounds of ur skills
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Kalavoz
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Posted - 2006.03.10 03:36:00 -
[20]
Does it have to be a caracal?
If you're just there to support your buddies on level 4s, in an Osprey you can fit shield transfers on the high slots, throw a cheap medium shield booster and cap booster/chargers in the mids and a WCS in the lows along with some armor.
As long as you have enough cap booster charges in your cargobay you'll then be able to transfer a huge amount of shields at a range of at least 30km pretty much for ever. 
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 09:36:00 -
[21]
From 30km away? how? the shield transfer array is only 7500km for the med?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Shemsu Draconis
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Posted - 2006.03.10 10:09:00 -
[22]
I just can't wrap my brain around why you think you don't need ABs. AB1 and TSM1 are easy to get and only take like an hour to train up. Active hardeners will keep you alive. Sure, all you do is missions right now, but the first time you jump to a gate in <.5 space and you don't have an insta, you'll regret that decision.
You may not think you need it, but the first time all your friends are at the next jump gate to the next section of the mission and you are 50km out, you'll reconsider. You have suddenly become a liability or at the very least an annoyance. If they don't wait for you and jump in the next part without you, you might as well have not come along. The first time you get aggro'ed by a BS or BC, you'll die.
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.10 10:40:00 -
[23]
And for the U need an AB... easy.
U friend will all be on BS right? so never consider helping them looting when u should go to 450m/s and when they can hardly reach 300...
as for the target painter worth the training.
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Jennie Marlboro
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Posted - 2006.03.10 10:55:00 -
[24]
Lots of people have covered why you want ABs (to keep up with your buddies, to speed up grabbing loot, etc), but here's one more: if you're facing turret-based enemies, your speed acts as sort of a primary tank -- the higher your transversal velocity, as a rule, the less accurate their shots at you. This is also true to some extent against missile spammers.
The revolution will not be televised. It will, however, be available on pay-per-view. |
F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 13:20:00 -
[25]
Ok ok, so i need after burners, what skills books and required skills do i need to buy?
Also, could someone tell me the main practical advanatges of the target painter and how i can shield transfer at 30km away?
Btw, thanks guys, this is great help, also, it only has to be a caracal whilst i get some skills up, i've got a moa and ferox parked up, but want these skills for the ferox and i'm not sure how good the moa will be over the ferox.
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Natural Selection Developer
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.03.10 13:53:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kery Nysell on 10/03/2006 13:56:02
I think I can answer the "shield transfer to 30 km away" bit.
Ship bonuses, on the Osprey : Special Ability: 20% bonus to mining laser yield per level. 10% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level. 500% bonus to range of shield transporters.
That 500% bonus to range is "static" (not dependant on your skills), and would give 30 kms with a Medium transporter : 5000m base +500% = 30000m.
With a named/Tech 2 Medium transporter, which has a better base range, you can even transfer farther than that : best named/Tech 2 base range is 6000m, +500% = 36000m.
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Jarek Naumen
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:06:00 -
[27]
Well we did some lvl4 missions with a Dread getting all the aggro and 2-4 cruisers webbing targets and killing stuff starting from smallest to biggest  . Dread handled the tanking and BS.
You don't really need tanking if someone else gets all the aggro. Just fit for damage.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:31:00 -
[28]
Hmm,might try out an osprey, i was considering a little while ago about heading towards the ballisk, anyone got an personal experience or advise about this?
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Natural Selection Developer
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:34:00 -
[29]
osprey:
Special Ability: 20% bonus to mining laser yield per level. 10% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level. 500% bonus to range of shield transporters.
basilisk:
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Shield Transfer Array range and 100% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range per level
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use and 10% reduction in Energy Transfer Array capacitor use per level
Don't these contradict each other?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:35:00 -
[30]
basilisk is so sweet when talking about shield and energy transfert.
With the right skill u able to transfert 720shield and 200 cap each 5 sec and that from 35km(cap)and 50km+ for shield.
i did a lvl 4 wwith my basilisk and an appoc first time ever i see a shield tanking poc ^^ (dont blame i just wanted to test it)
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.03.10 14:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
osprey:
Special Ability: 20% bonus to mining laser yield per level. 10% bonus to capacitor use of shield transporters per level. 500% bonus to range of shield transporters.
basilisk:
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Shield Transfer Array range and 100% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range per level
Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use and 10% reduction in Energy Transfer Array capacitor use per level
Don't these contradict each other?
Not really.
An Osprey with Cal Cruiser 5 will have a 50% bonus to capacitor use and a "static" 500% bonus to the range of shield transporters.
Since you need Cal Cruiser 5 and Logistics 1 to even climb in a Basilisk, it would have a 750% bonus to the range of shield transporters and 500% bonus to the range of energy transporters, plus a reduction of (at least) 15%/10% in shield/energy transfer cap usage.
You would need to raise Logistics to 4 before getting a better reduction in capacitor use for shield transporters than on the Osprey, tough (50% at Cal Cruiser 5 vs 60% at Logistics 4).
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Waenn Ironstaff
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Posted - 2006.03.10 15:27:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Waenn Ironstaff on 10/03/2006 15:28:09
Man, I've never realized that the Osprey could be a logistic ship that can "heal" ships in such a way. Always thought of it as a mining ship :)
With basic skills, how long can I sustain the shield transfer on a corpmate's ship?
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 15:33:00 -
[33]
So how does that compare to an osprey doing the same thing? and do you get any other benefits for training to ballasik for anything other than that ship?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.10 15:39:00 -
[34]
nothing from the logistic skill but still dont forget that there is more than 1 benefit from basilisk.
15% instead of 10% worth when at least lvl 4 logistic. 750% shield transfert range instead of 500% , 500% bonus to energy transfert instead of 0% and 10% per lvl skill for energy transfert instead of 0%.
Not giving the fact a basilisk could sustain all this mod on when an osprey cant and 6 highslot wich mean 2 shield or 2 cap transfert more than osprey.
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 15:57:00 -
[35]
Hmm, there are increased stats for cap regen and shield regen on the ballisk?
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Natural Selection Developer
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:05:00 -
[36]
Actually, i don't understand, the osprey has the standard 500% thats fine, thats classed as a caldari cruiser bonus. Now i understood that when in the ballasisk description, it mentions the cruiser bonus as well as the logistics bonus, so shouldn't the cruiser bonus read the exact same as the osprey's?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Nadec Ascand
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:10:00 -
[37]
no as the osprey bonus is static and the cruiser bonus for basilisk is per lvl (wich is silly it should be static as u need cruiser 5 to fly it anyway)
OMG our war have been hijack -eris
What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde
Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:11:00 -
[38]
as support in a level 4 mission in a caracl, i would recomend 5x assault launchers. if your gang members are going to die its because they are warpscrambed by a stupid frig. in a cruiser your main goal should be to take out all the frigates first then worry about the cruisers. low slots all ballistic controlls, mid slots maybe a weber or 2? no point even trying to tank if the spawn decides to kill you.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 16:26:00 -
[39]
Edited by: F2C MaDMaXX on 10/03/2006 16:37:07
Thats 1250% bonus to shield transport range on the ballasisk then?
500% static to the ospreys cruiser bonus, oh, wait, i get it, the ballasisk is 150% per level, but the level 5 is required, so rather than saying 150% per level, it should just work like the osprey and state a static 750% to range.
So how do the shields and cap with their recharge rates compare between the ships? how much worse is the osprey? if at all? in practical terms?
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Natural Selection Developer
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Anxia
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Posted - 2006.03.10 17:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: F2C MaDMaXX
Edited by: F2C MaDMaXX on 10/03/2006 16:37:07
Thats 1250% bonus to shield transport range on the ballasisk then?
500% static to the ospreys cruiser bonus, oh, wait, i get it, the ballasisk is 150% per level, but the level 5 is required, so rather than saying 150% per level, it should just work like the osprey and state a static 750% to range.
So how do the shields and cap with their recharge rates compare between the ships? how much worse is the osprey? if at all? in practical terms?
The basklisk is based on the Osprey's hull, but the tech 2 versions of ships don't automatically inherit the bonuses of the base ship. Thats why they list a cruiser bonus and then the specialization bonus. It is kind of sillyl why they break the skill down to 'per level of cruiser' since it requires level 5, but thats just how they phrased it on all the tech 2 ships.
If your low on skill points, you may want to set the Basklisk as a long term goal, and use an Osprey for now. Tech 2 ships have some skill requirements that may take a bit for you to learn. Cruiser 5 alone may take two or three weeks.
--Anxia
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Spektral
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Posted - 2006.03.10 17:31:00 -
[41]
Just as a note, cruiser 5 will never let you down EVER. Training it will generate bonus' that will be useful for Hacs, recon and logistics. Logistics can be a complete godsend for a mission runner doing level 4's since it can allow them to run missions faster. Caldari Hacs at this time are very good if setup right, The Eagle is a killer on gate camps due to lightning fast lock and unbeleivable range with 250 tech 2 rails. over 100 km with no problem. The cerberus can handle most any medium level engagement due to strong tank and damage dealing choice.
The recons for caldari are ok, and would serve a fleet well.
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F2C MaDMaXX
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Posted - 2006.03.10 17:49:00 -
[42]
Thanks for all your help on this guys, its much appreciated, i've just tried my skills fitting an osprey now, i can get a med shield transporter, med nos, 2x assault launchers, pdu's and cap rechargers on the osprey no problem, i can run the shield transporter non stop at about 60% cap :)
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