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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.12.20 15:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i was wondering if the community could help me compile a list of T2 mods that are completely worthless.
To become a Totally worthless T2 mod, the stats have to be = to or worse than there meta 4 companion AND also you can easily find the meta 4 version for less on the market.
ECM-Mutlispectral Jammer II Signal Distortion Amplifier II Adaptive Nano Plating II ECM Phase Inverter II Large Hull Repairer II Medium Hull Repairer II
Help me out here ;) will continue to try and track down worthless T2 mods when i have time! |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.12.20 15:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved in case i need more space! |
kurage87
EVE University Ivy League
25
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Target Painter II |
kurage87
EVE University Ivy League
25
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think Target Disruptor II as well, not as certain on that though. |
Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.12.20 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
1MN Microwwarpdrive II 10MN Microwwarpdrive II 100MN Microwwarpdrive II |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 15:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
The target disruptor is cheaper tho, thus not applicable. I will be checking each one of these so that the list remains good, however if there's a delay in a item going up its cause i'm at work :) |
Dan Carter Murray
464
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Posted - 2013.12.20 16:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Odithia wrote:1MN Microwwarpdrive II 10MN Microwwarpdrive II 100MN Microwwarpdrive II
the capacitor penality is slightly less for mwd t2 that's what you're paying for http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com |
Praxis Ginimic
Vessels of the Line Bask of Fail
600
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Odithia wrote:1MN Microwwarpdrive II 10MN Microwwarpdrive II 100MN Microwwarpdrive II the capacitor penality is slightly less for mwd t2 that's what you're paying for
This one depends on where you fly. If you need to burn through bubbles out in null then t2. If on the other hand you're pulsing and oh'd mwd for low sec skirmishes then go meta 4 as they can take more heat.
With that said: Warp core stab II Sensor disruptor II SeBo II (?)
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Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis De Novo
342
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Odithia wrote:1MN Microwwarpdrive II 10MN Microwwarpdrive II 100MN Microwwarpdrive II the capacitor penality is slightly less for mwd t2 that's what you're paying for
To be precise, the capacitor penalty isn't as bad when they're inactive; when they're running, they chew up cap at a fast enough rate that they'll cap you out more quickly. Also they're more vulnerable to overheating.
(TL;DR: go meta for a continuously-burning MWD, go T2 if you're going to just pulse the MWD and need more cap for other modules.) "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Praxis Ginimic
Vessels of the Line Bask of Fail
600
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Right. What he said. |
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1083
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
While that is a valid point regarding the MWD that is often missed, I still think T2 MWDs are pretty ****. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2227
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
neuts, nos, TDs eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 17:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:[quote=Dan Carter Murray][quote=Odithia] (TL;DR: go meta for a continuously-burning MWD, go T2 if you're going to just pulse the MWD and need more cap for other modules.) I know that and it is the only module with such ridiculous compromise. T2 are meant to be better than Meta 4 in everything but fittings and skills requirements.
Ammo and Faction is where the variation are meant to occurs and where you pick each variation for a certain purpose.
Right now T2 MWD are useless on 80% of ships and are only sold in such magnitude because people are clueless. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
695
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 18:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
t2 mwd is great when you plan to sit still and tank for awhile, but still need a mwd. Sure those times are few and far between, but I still wouldn't put them on the "useless" list. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
657
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 18:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Small/medium/heavy energy neutralizer II I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Small/medium/heavy energy neutralizer II So are Nosferatu. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1084
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 18:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Small/medium/heavy energy neutralizer II
These have a use purely because they're identical to meta 4, and meta 4 is rare enough to be a lot more expensive. |
Laizir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 19:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
T2 Shield Power Relay |
Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
22
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 19:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Small and medium cap boosters, large also if you don't use navy 800. Web and short point. |
Ta'krite
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 19:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Regardless of how situational the t2 mwds are they do not qualify for this list as they do have a stat advantage in one area.
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Drake Doe
SVER Bloodpack Insidious Empire
301
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 19:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
T2 amarr drones, excluding sentries. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Kery Nysell
104
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 20:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Capacitor and Shield Flux Coils, Meta 0 to Elebentybillions.
Those are just a sick joke. ... |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
73
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 20:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Niclas Solo wrote:Small and medium cap boosters, large also if you don't use navy 800. Web and short point. There's a difference of being able to fit one more navy 400 charge in the tech II medium cap booster as opposed to the meta 4. Quite handy if you are battling against neuts and so don't want to use 800s. |
Paranoid Loyd
University of Caille Gallente Federation
141
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:The target disruptor is cheaper tho, thus not applicable. I will be checking each one of these so that the list remains good, however if there's a delay in a item going up its cause i'm at work :)
You understand this yet you presented the thread the way you did, like every fool before you.
How about a thread to nerf the loot drop of meta 4 items so their price is higher than the tech II counterparts, making the tech II counterparts more viable.
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Ta'krite
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 22:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Seems to me that he clearly stated what the requirements of the list were in the op, this included that the t2 mod must be more expensive than the meta 4, in the case of the t2 disrupter it is cheaper than its meta 4 counter part. So not sure what your getting at. |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 23:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
[quote How about a thread to nerf the loot drop of meta 4 items so their price is higher than the tech II counterparts, making the tech II counterparts more viable. [/quote]
Cause not all Meta 4 or T2 are in this situation, im am just making a list not a statement something so people can go OH why am i buying the t2 version again ill check to see if the meta 4 is cheaper. |
Medude
Unstable Reaction Inc. Takahashi Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 00:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
welcome to the old why is meta 4 better than T2 argument, it's not like one can be produced and the other has to be gun mined |
Miasmos
Aliastra Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 02:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
IMHO: Forget the pricing because that is fluctuating and decided by players. Just list which t2 mods are worse statwise than meta. You could put (parentheses) in the modules you list because of price.
On that note, an excellent initiative to work such a list and +1 |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 02:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
most of the time the prices are significantly cheaper for the meta 4 or more expensive, in fact the SeBo (which didnt make the list as it uses 3 cap less to activate) was the closest in price.
Most of the time the Meta 4 is more expensive making the T2 a viable alternative if you have fitting to spare which is why they dont make my naughty list ho ho ho! |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
166
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 09:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tracking Disruptor II Oderint Dum Metuant |
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Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
151
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 13:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nice thread! Some good information. |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 15:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Tracking Disruptor II
The t2 version is half the price of its meta 4, so if you have spare fitting its only logical you would fit the T2 varient thus it does have its use. |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2013.12.21 16:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
ECCM Radar II meta 4 costs a fraction of the T2, needs less cpu and less cap why do people even build those?^^ |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1923
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 00:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Price is/should not be a factor when it comes to deciding what is better meta4 or T2. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 01:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cant seem to find anymore at the moment! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1923
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 02:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
T2 stasis webifier is worst than meta 4 (by means of fitting requirements) T2 warp scrambler is worse (by means of fitting requirements) Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 12:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 stasis webifier is worst than meta 4 (by means of fitting requirements) T2 warp scrambler is worse (by means of fitting requirements)
this may be true, but the T2 version is cheaper thus if you have fitting space you would buy the t2 version for your pvp ship. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1924
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 14:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 stasis webifier is worst than meta 4 (by means of fitting requirements) T2 warp scrambler is worse (by means of fitting requirements) this may be true, but the T2 version is cheaper thus if you have fitting space you would buy the t2 version for your pvp ship. The T2 version is only cheaper specifically because it is worse than the meta 4 version. If the T2 version is buffed or tr meta 4 version is nerfed the prices will change accordingly.
This is true for all meta 4 that is more expensive than T2. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
nyord Miromme
Eat My Shorts Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.26 18:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
i have a strange one for the second post mining laser upgrade meta 4 is better than T2 it cost like infinite. and i not in agrement their are some meta 4 mudules that are hilarios expensive and not better than T2 like damage controll shild boost amp and microauxilary power core. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
460
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 13:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Please do not consider price for this list. Price is set entirely buy market supply/demand and is a variable. Despite the fact that T2 is manufactured by players and meta gear is loot only, there is little correlation between where the items come from and price.
For example, at the time of this post, T2 ECM is far more expensive than meta 4. It used to be the other way around.
I'm glad to see this post get stickied. The disparity between meta 4 and T2 gear is a big black eye on equipment balancing that really needs to be addressed. Free Ripley Weaver! |
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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
172
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 14:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Despite the fact that T2 is manufactured by players and meta gear is loot only, there is little correlation between where the items come from and price.
True most of the time, but there are exceptions. Internal force field arrays would probably be a lot cheaper if they could be looted from more than a single niche faction that everyone hates fighting even more than most pve
|
Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
26
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 16:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jon Joringer wrote:Niclas Solo wrote:Small and medium cap boosters, large also if you don't use navy 800. Web and short point. There's a difference of being able to fit one more navy 400 charge in the tech II medium cap booster as opposed to the meta 4. Quite handy if you are battling against neuts and so don't want to use 800s.
Of course, thats a huge different if you have room for one more. But if you use navy 400 in small or navy 800 in medium or standard 800 in large then there is no reason to use T2.
Also one medium meta 4 with one navy 800 give more cap/sec then a medium T2 with 3 navy 400. |
Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
26
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 16:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 stasis webifier is worst than meta 4 (by means of fitting requirements) T2 warp scrambler is worse (by means of fitting requirements) this may be true, but the T2 version is cheaper thus if you have fitting space you would buy the t2 version for your pvp ship.
Don't forget that they use a lot less cap also, around 20-30%. I think that alone is worth a few isk. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
635
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 05:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Add to the list:: Capacitor Power Relay II
T2 version uses more than twice CPU for the same price and benefits. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
131
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 14:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Add to the list those modules that you have left out due to price. Prices fluctuate all the time, the stats don't though (until an update of course).
Also add:
Capacitor Power Relay II (meta4 has less fittings, less shield boost penalty and the same cap recharge bonus)
EM-Thermal-Kinetic-Explosive Plating II (meta4 gives the same while costing less and requiring the skill at I)
|
Ace Echo
The Shadow Raiders Fleet Coordination Coalition
48
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 02:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
It appears that the t2 ECCMs can take more heat than the meta-4 ones. That's a stat advantage. Not a big advantage but might at least be worth parenthetically mentioning. |
Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 17:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ace Echo wrote:It appears that the t2 ECCMs can take more heat than the meta-4 ones. That's a stat advantage. Not a big advantage but might at least be worth parenthetically mentioning.
Are you sure about that? EFT say meta 4 last 5:40 for me and T2 4:10 T2 also use 33% more cap. |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 17:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ace Echo wrote:It appears that the t2 ECCMs can take more heat than the meta-4 ones. That's a stat advantage. Not a big advantage but might at least be worth parenthetically mentioning.
I'm sorry but i do not see this, the heat damage is the same
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
I wish that you could see fit to give the T2 MWDs a special place on your second post. To say their bonus is situational is ignoring that the tiny bit of a bonus they actually give is more or less eliminated by actually usiing the module. They cost 17% of your max capacitor instead of 19%, but they cost 10% more capacitor to activate. Their heat absorption appears to be identical from the attributes list. The only other difference is they cost more powergrid.
So you pay more powergrid for a module that only saves you capacitor when it's off, and may actually cost you more when it's on. That's not what I call situational. That's a case of it's only better when you might just not want to fit a MWD at all. And that's not to mention its price is on the high end of tech 2 modules.
And speaking of price, the market price of meta 4 modules fluctuates a lot. For one, the meta 4 versions of energy neutralizers are often more expensive than the tech 2, but not always because they aren't actually an uncommon drop. They're just popular. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2112
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 13:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but meta 4 mining laser upgrade is better than T2 as well as meta 4 ice harvester upgrades are better than t2.
This one is kinda an odd situation. Meta 4 remote armor repairers when everything is broken down it seems that meta 4 is superior to t2. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
843
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 04:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Meta 4 mining laser and ice harvester upgrades are indeed superior to tech 2, but they are much more expensive.
Meta 4 armor repairers repair the same amount but slower and they cost more capacitor. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2112
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 04:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Meta 4 armor repairers repair the same amount but slower and they cost more capacitor. They use the same amount of cap, and have lower fitting requirements, but have about a 10% slower cycle time.
And you know cost doesnt meant anything when it comes to meta 1-4 modules. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
843
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 04:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
No, they cost more cap per cycle. That means more cap used for the same amount of armor repaired. The meta 4 repairers are both slower and less efficient.
The price of meta 4 modules matters when they are upwards of 5 million ISK and the tech 2 is barely over 1 mil. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2112
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 04:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:No, they cost more cap per cycle. That means more cap used for the same amount of armor repaired. The meta 4 repairers are both slower and less efficient.
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer 600MW 32CPU Activation Cost 252 GJ Optimal Range 8400m Activation Time 5s Armor HP Repaired 384
Large Remote Armor Repairer II 660MW 48CPU Activation Cost 252 GJ Optimal Range 8400m Activation Time 4.5s Armor HP Repaired 384 Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
849
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 17:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer Activation Cost 252 GJ
Large Remote Armor Repairer II Activation Cost 252 GJ
That's interesting. You check only the large, and I check only the small and medium. I stopped there because I assumed the same trend would follow to the large. Anyway, the large tech 2 has the same activation cost at the large meta 4, but the medium and small meta 4s have a higher activation cost than the tech 2. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Dkeh Weis
Benzene Inc. Relic Accord
51
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
T2 cargo scans should not be on this list. Same fitting requirement, same activation cost, cycle time is 2 seconds slower. When using them to scan ghost sites, the extra time is definitely worth the cost. |
Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
92
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dkeh Weis wrote:T2 cargo scans should not be on this list. Same fitting requirement, same activation cost, cycle time is 2 seconds slower. When using them to scan ghost sites, the extra time is definitely worth the cost.
Sorry but that is not what i see at all, the stats for the meta 4 and the T2 are the same except for the meta 4 requiring 1 less cpu. Perhaps you were looking at the cargo scanner I which indeed has a 5 sec cycle time, how ever the meta 4 has 3 seconds just like the T2. |
Dkeh Weis
Benzene Inc. Relic Accord
51
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 16:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
You are entirely right, and I derped out hard >_< Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all. |
Dan Rae
EVE University Ivy League
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 15:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Please do not consider price for this list. Price is set entirely buy market supply/demand and is a variable. Despite the fact that T2 is manufactured by players and meta gear is loot only, there is little correlation between where the items come from and price.
For example, at the time of this post, T2 ECM is far more expensive than meta 4. It used to be the other way around.
I'm glad to see this post get stickied. The disparity between meta 4 and T2 gear is a big black eye on equipment balancing that really needs to be addressed.
Fully agree, T2 should be superior in stats and cost more, otherwise it would be "pointless" training skills to a high enough level to equip T2 modules throughout. |
Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
82
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 19:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ta'krite wrote:Regardless of how situational the t2 mwds are they do not qualify for this list as they do have a stat advantage in one area.
It is a wash with the meta...yeha they have a smaller cap penalty but are more intensive to run resulting in basically being no better. Plus they are harder to fit. So they are by any analysis of the facts...worse.
T2 should offer a more significant advantage in cap penalty reduction, as deadspace c-types start at about -8% instead of t2's -19%. Change t2 to say... -15% or -13% and we're in range of a real improvement. And make its cap use per cycle the same as the meta. Leave fittings higher as a way to 'pay' for those advantages while giving a clear reason to spend cpu/grid in that manner. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Praxis Ginimic wrote:SeBo II (?)
Nope, SeBo II uses around 40% less capacitor then meta4 and is also usually cheaper. |
Flaming Forum Spammer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 14:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
T2 amarr beam/pulse of all variety. fitting cpu and pg is exorbitant with slight damage bonus and higher cap use.
CCP, reduce meta4 drop rate slightly. That drastically reduced PG/CPU/Cap etc... must come at a higher price. Most T2 mods requiring the higher skills -lots of 5's- should come down in PG/CPU/CAP etc... so those with the invested skills have the better fitting. ex) fitting up T2 mega pulse and mega beam apoc eft at 257/254 (EFT so actually more) vs meta4 fitting at 239/237.
what am I doing... CCP has all the spreadsheets. They know how unbalanced this is. |
Kosetzu
S1lver Flame
101
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
Flaming Forum Spammer wrote:T2 amarr beam/pulse of all variety. fitting cpu and pg is exorbitant with slight damage bonus and higher cap use.
CCP, reduce meta4 drop rate slightly. That drastically reduced PG/CPU/Cap etc... must come at a higher price. Most T2 mods requiring the higher skills -lots of 5's- should come down in PG/CPU/CAP etc... so those with the invested skills have the better fitting. ex) fitting up T2 mega pulse and mega beam apoc eft at 257/254 (EFT so actually more) vs meta4 fitting at 239/237.
what am I doing... CCP has all the spreadsheets. They know how unbalanced this is. You can't use T2 ammo on meta weapons so that is rather moot. T2 might be more difficult to fit and all, but you get a huge benefit with T2 ammo for some ships. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
969
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Meta 4 and Tech II weapons have the same damage mod and fire rate. The Tech II gets marginally greater damage only from the Tech II weapon skill; the majority of the value of Tech II weapons is to use Tech II ammo. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
UltimateAmbush
MUSE Rapid Action Team Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
t2 remote reperrs. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Small/medium/heavy energy neutralizer II These have a use purely because they're identical to meta 4, and meta 4 is rare enough to be a lot more expensive.
They use more powergrid than meta 4, which can become an issue if you've got a tight frig or cruiser fit going on. They SHOULD have a bit extra range. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Add to the list:: Capacitor Power Relay II
T2 version uses more than twice CPU for the same price and benefits.
it has a slightly less problematic penalty to shield boosting. I would like to see that module be fixed as to not hamper active shield tanking, btw. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
37
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 00:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Meta 4 Nanofiber Internal Structure Speed: +8.9% Agility: -15.8% Structure penalty: -15% Price: around 80k ISK
Nanofiber Internal Structure II Speed: +9.4% Agility: -15.8% Structure penatly: -20% Price: around 450k ISK
T2 isn't clear-cut worse, but a further -5% structure penalty and 6x price for the same agility bonus and just +0.5% speed doesn't seem like a good bargain to me. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
985
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 00:48:00 -
[69] - Quote
I agree, and would definitely put the above example into the special case scenario with the microwarpdrives. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
235
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Out of curiosity, seeing as this is a sticky with no blue posts... has CCP mentioned this is something they're planning on amending? Or is this sticky just basically here for "don't buy these T2 modules" purposes? Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 22:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP has already announced that they are planning on doing work on meta 4 modules as a part of tiericide. I don't remember where I saw it but it was probably somewhere in Features and Ideas Discussion. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2222
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 01:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Fozzie mentioned it a little bit in the Sensor Dampener thread in F&I. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
235
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Awesome. Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
279
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 05:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Fozzie mentioned it a little bit in the Sensor Dampener thread in F&I. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4302427#post4302427
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:Remote Sensor Dampener II 36000 30000 Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I 36000 30000
so why is the T2 range the same as the meta 4?? also unless you are changing it has the same effectiveness??? so whats the point of using the T2 version over the meta 4??? this is the same for many modules aswell any chance of changing them??
any thoughts on making modules role based instead of tiers??? We'd like to address some of these issues but this change is specifically adjusting the balance of the Damp group as a whole and we don't want to complicate it by feature creeping :)
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
307
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 05:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
UltimateAmbush wrote:t2 remote reperrs.
check your eft again. t2 remote reppers have clear advantage and im FAR from the only one that uses them |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
730
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 18:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Yeah its odd; the T2 TP seems to have the exact same stats as the meta 4 except it costs more to activate. Any idea if theyll ever fix that? It seems like its something that should BE fixed lol And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1106
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 19:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
A lot of meta 5s (Tech II) have the same or higher fitting cost and higher capacitor cost with equal output to the meta 4. That is why they (Target Painter II included) are on the list. We are trying to get CCP to take a look at it.
They probably will soon. Even before this post, CCP Fozzie gave a shout-out to the discrepancy. CCP is aware of this problem. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13411
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 07:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Add to the list:: Capacitor Power Relay II
T2 version uses more than twice CPU for the same price and benefits. it has a slightly less problematic penalty to shield boosting. I would like to see that module be fixed as to not hamper active shield tanking, btw.
Actually, the penalty on the meta4 is smaller than that of the t2. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
Leokokim
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 10:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Something else:
If you cannot use the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II, there is not point using the Meta 4 variation, as an Adaptive Nano Plating II gives more resists than the meta 4 EANM while only requiring Hull Upgrades IV.
And instead of the T2 you can ofc use the 'Refuge' one, which gives the same resists for a quarter of the price and only needs Hull Upgrades I.
:CCP: |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2880
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ah, a dev's alt posts a request to get the community to do his job, to create a list of T2 items to nerf (edit, nerf the meta 4's). This dovetails nicely with fozzie's comments today. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 21:31:47 -
[81] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Ah, a dev's alt posts a request to get the community to do his job, to create a list of T2 items to nerf (edit, nerf the meta 4's). This dovetails nicely with fozzie's comments today.
WHOOT! im a dev! oh wait...no im not....back to my crappy evening job.....cry....thanks man...... |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1868
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 22:28:04 -
[82] - Quote
Good work Decaneos. It's people like you in our EVE community who make CCP's job so much easier, and that trickles down into every day gameplay. That's why EVE is great. It's a place where the average joe like Dinsdale Piranha don't have to understand how things work, for there are other people keeping a good look out and always trying to make EVE better for everyone.
Your efforts are not going unnoticed. =)
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1177
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:47:53 -
[83] - Quote
Niclas Solo wrote:Jon Joringer wrote:Niclas Solo wrote:Small and medium cap boosters, large also if you don't use navy 800. Web and short point. There's a difference of being able to fit one more navy 400 charge in the tech II medium cap booster as opposed to the meta 4. Quite handy if you are battling against neuts and so don't want to use 800s. Of course, thats a huge different if you have room for one more. But if you use navy 400 in small or navy 800 in medium or standard 800 in large then there is no reason to use T2. Also one medium meta 4 with one navy 800 give more cap/sec then a medium T2 with 3 navy 400.
This also completely ignores the point of the whole thread; that the t2 (meta 5) version has at least 1 stat better than the meta 4, which is capacity. Thus, this doesn't qualify.
Also, great work, this is very useful to see, however, price shouldn't have any bearing on the lists. Price is a player set initiative balancing between supply, demand, and usefulness. If a ship costs 100 million or 10 billion, that doesn't inherently make the ship any better or worse, it simply changes the affordability of that ship, and subsequently, devalues this thread.
For sake of clarity, Tech 2 is Meta 5, so there is absolutely no reason that meta 5 items should not have at least one superior physical attribute, affecting the performance, or fitting capabilities of the ship compared to meta 4, of which price is not one. Considering this has been a real sore in the game for so long, I'm surprised that the devs didnt just make quick tweaks to all the t2 items to resolve this, similar to when they added more capacity to tech 2 cap boosters, more armor to tech 2 plates, or changes similar to when they attempted to alleviate some of the penalties on tech 2 ammo. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1868
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 16:31:30 -
[84] - Quote
I would argue that tech II capacitor boosters do go into a fringe case because while they are better when you use Navy cap booster charges, only the large is better if you aren't. Navy cap booster charges get expensive quickly. I've personally never used one and probably won't be any time soon, especially if I'm flying a small and cheap ship.
It seems to me that Navy cap booster charges are only cost-effective for tech 2 cruisers in high-risk PVP; all other times either the Navy charges aren't enough of a bonus or they cost too much, or both. People who aren't worried about the cost will use them, but penny-pinchers will not.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:10:57 -
[85] - Quote
nevermind, read something wrong. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 17:03:15 -
[86] - Quote
Price shouldn't be a stipulation for being on this list because average prices vary and fluctuate from one month to the next and because the price of non-faction modules is near negligible in most cases. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
747
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 00:18:43 -
[87] - Quote
Price shouldn't really be an issue here. Prices can change easily, especially if attributes or demand changes. For example, a Meta 4 might be more expensive because it is better, and therefore, have a higher price. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1868
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 23:14:05 -
[88] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Price shouldn't really be an issue here. Prices can change easily, especially if attributes or demand changes. For example, a Meta 4 might be more expensive because it is better, and therefore, have a higher price. Price is more just a tiebreaker when something is an edge case, or perhaps more fuel to throw on the fire to present a case as to why a particular tech 2 module is worthless in comparison to the meta 4. It is most notably a factor when the clearly more popular module is also much less expensive. The T2 MWD, for instance, can be shown to be underpowered somewhat by price, though that's really just a bit more dirt to throw at it.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1177
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 16:14:13 -
[89] - Quote
The tears are going to be so unbelievably glorious when the module tiericide hits mining laser upgrades. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
864
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 21:33:42 -
[90] - Quote
Two words: Module Tiericide.
/thread
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
121
|
Posted - 2014.12.15 13:58:02 -
[91] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Two words: Module Tiericide.
/thread
Yep, need to update this thread soon i think. busy at the moment tho....bloody christmas ;) |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
548
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 04:07:42 -
[92] - Quote
While you are at it, why don't you also compile a list of T1 modules which are worse in every way, as compared to metas, including price?
It should be an easy list to compile, since nearly every T1 module should be on the list. :) |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2144
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 21:11:53 -
[93] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:While you are at it, why don't you also compile a list of T1 modules which are worse in every way, as compared to metas, including price?
It should be an easy list to compile, since nearly every T1 module should be on the list. :) I think meta drop rates on some modules should be reduced to keep meta 1 more expensive than meta 0.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
realstar
KANTAI HIKAGE Total Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 13:24:52 -
[94] - Quote
Why CCP didn't reply?
It's very sad to spend time learning skills and don't have the advantage from using T2 modules. I didn't know about that thing that ECM meta 4 modules have the same strength, but need less capacitor for activation and less cpu for fitting. I was sure that t2 is always better, but today my opinion about game dramatticaly decreased.
I don't care how much does it costs, or how hard to get it from NPC, T2 should be better and meta 4 should be as alternative for pilots who have not enough skills or need to decrease cpu usage of ships, thats it! |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
55
|
Posted - 2015.02.15 11:13:18 -
[95] - Quote
Meta4 has not or let's say must not be better than T2. Or maby let's put it this way, as higher meta is than higher efficiency must be. It's should be strictlt devided * T1 mods (meta level 1) * T2 mods (meta level 5) * Storyline mods (meta level 6) * Complex mods (meta level 7-10 c,b,a,x) * Officer mods (meta level 11-14)
Another question is fitting requirements. cpu, pg, those are core things where all meta gaps are come onto light.
This should be deeply re-worked by CCP. Otherwise we keep having what we already had most of the passed years.
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
379
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 06:09:49 -
[96] - Quote
In light of the changes put through with https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-modules-round-two/
Inertia Stabilizers II should be removed from the list, because they now have an Inertia Modifier that is better than the Meta variant.
Capacitor Power Relay II should be removed from the list, because they now have a Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus that is better than the Meta variant. |
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