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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
35
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Probably because you could just kite rats with it and the tier 3s aren't made with PvE in mind. If that was what CCP had in mind, only short range turrets would receive a bonus (although I don't know if bonusing short range turrets only would be possible without some recoding).
In that case the Oracle should only be able to fit Pulse lazers!!! |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
468
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Posted - 2011.11.09 16:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zendoren wrote:
In that case the Oracle should only be able to fit Pulse lazers!!!
Wait - people fit beam lazers???
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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
27
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Posted - 2011.11.09 17:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:Wait - people fit beam lazers??? And rails, arty, etc. Shoot and kite are what these ships are all about. They have very little tank, I love them as they are right now, they are a ton of fun with a friend to tackle. Very much looking forward to this going live on sisi. It's a party on sisi all-day erry-day right now. :D |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
51
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Posted - 2011.11.09 20:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: I'm also quite aware of why cruise missiles dont work for "sniping", though I didn't know they could hit small stuff effectively. I haven't run a mission in highsec for probably 18 months, and I've never seen them in a PvP scenario, which was the reason for my initial question. I was simply curious why the Naga couldn't have been used to give a (seemingly) underused weapon system some measure of effectiveness, through bonuses perhaps, but I see now how they wouldn't fit well with the role.
Just to be clear, cruise missiles - don't - hit small stuff effectively. The only thing that makes them at-all desireable is the incredibly low range of torps (and lack of tracking modules to assist this, other than rigs) and their even-more-pathetic applied-dps against BS and down targets. I don't think cruise missiles would be a big step up, without dedicating both bonuses to launchers, but better that than caldari getting another hybrid ship that's going to need balancing (since ccp is still struggling with that in general). |
SilentSkills
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
21
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I was curious about the NagaGÇÖs design choice of being a torpedo boat. I envisioned it much more as a cruise missile platform. Torpedos are already seen fitted to Ravens, Typhoons, and of course Stealth Bombers, whereas cruise missiles are really one viable on Ravens, and rarely seen in PvP.
I underlined the answer to your question
Cruise Naga = useless naga. In fleets you want instant damage at long range. No one wants their damage to take several seconds to arrive. Hence guns on Naga. Hence why you don't see many PVP cruise ravens, aside from the failbear fits |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
469
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Posted - 2011.11.09 21:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
SilentSkills wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I was curious about the NagaGÇÖs design choice of being a torpedo boat. I envisioned it much more as a cruise missile platform. Torpedos are already seen fitted to Ravens, Typhoons, and of course Stealth Bombers, whereas cruise missiles are really one viable on Ravens, and rarely seen in PvP.
I underlined the answer to your question Cruise Naga = useless naga. In fleets you want instant damage at long range. No one wants their damage to take several seconds to arrive. Hence guns on Naga. Hence why you don't see many PVP cruise ravens, aside from the failbear fits
Well yes, I understand that they aren't viable for PvP in their current form. Thats why I was curious if and why it wasn't possible to give a bonus to the Naga that changes that fact. Damage bonus, speed bonus, I dunno. As has already been said, my understanding of cruises is minimal, which is why I was picking the brains of other folks here. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
104
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
The question I ask is, can this thing maintain high speed in a tight enough orbit for torp range without getting picked off by large turrets?
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Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Just use rails for ratting, or stick with a Raven. You can easily hit frigates at long (50km+) range and these new BC should be fast enough to keep most rats at long range. I find that railguns only really have trouble hitting stuff under about 30km. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
148
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'm still waiting for cruisers that can only fit a doomsday device. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
365
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
SilentSkills wrote: Cruise Naga = useless naga. In fleets you want instant damage at long range. No one wants their damage to take several seconds to arrive. Hence guns on Naga. Hence why you don't see many PVP cruise ravens, aside from the failbear fits
Underlined the part where you went wrong.[/quote]
Problems with Cruise Missile are not why they are not used. Cruise Missiles are a fine PvP Weapon. The Platforms they come on suck.
Attitudes about velocity went out the window when Heavy Missile Fleets came about. Cruise Missiles have the same velocity as Heavy Missiles. As for there flight time you can hit targets with Cruise Missiles just fine in the 20-70km kill zone of Heavy Missiles at the same time. The takes forever argument falls apart when when you don't fire them off past 80km but still have the option too.
The issues with Cruise PvP are such.
* Raven 6 Launchers, Typhoon 5 Launchers. All other Fleet Battleships used have 7-8 Weapons or 2 Dmg Bonuses. * Battleships that do carry Cruise Missiles can not keep up with Missile Fleets currently in use.
The fact that there is not a Missile Battleship good enough to build a Fleet around is the reason they are not used.
8 Cruise Naga with a Dmg Bonus will see action in Missile Fleets. |
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Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.11.10 10:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tier3 BCs will be useless aside from Tornado. Because they can damage BS and bigger ships only, but suck comparing to them on account of 3-4 times less ehp (it's for close range roles). And as to long range, only Tornado is suitable for it with its superb alpha. So we'll see another few (or perhaps not few) "nerf matars!!!" threads soon and nothing more. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
470
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Posted - 2011.11.10 15:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Problems with Cruise Missile are not why they are not used. Cruise Missiles are a fine PvP Weapon. The Platforms they come on suck.
The issues with Cruise PvP are such.
* Raven 6 Launchers, Typhoon 5 Launchers. All other Fleet Battleships used have 7-8 Weapons or 2 Dmg Bonuses. * Battleships that do carry Cruise Missiles can not keep up with Missile Fleets currently in use.
The fact that there is not a Missile Battleship good enough to build a Fleet around is the reason they are not used.
8 Cruise Naga with a Dmg Bonus will see action in Missile Fleets.
Yeah, this was my original thought. I see now why torps are a little more appropriate for the style of the new BC's (they need to be vulnerable to be balanced, and torps bring them into firing range of other ships) but the lack of a strong cruise platform was exactly why the Torp bonus took me by surprise initially.
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2011.11.10 15:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
why not cruise missiles?? cause cruise missiles sux thats why i hope rails are still will be an option as i would use those always over cruise or torps anytime
keep in mind the drakes are only favoured due to their awesome resists +buffer not cause it is missle ship, btw hml+rockets the only worth using the rest is crappy |
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