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Sibius Aidon
Prototype Concept Divide By Zero Alliance
24
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Posted - 2014.01.02 17:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Recently I've been made aware of that there is a such thing as 'wasted Skill Points'. Well, personally believe that it is all a state of mind. My character is a well rounded character, he can do PvE decently well all the way up to Lvl 4's, a little bit of explo decently well, and do anything indie besides invent and produce the T2 stuff. I even got him trained up in PI (which currently is an ongoing operation, cannot yet do planetology but its on the list of things to train before he's really any decent in PI (although currently he can do 3 planets and has decent yield)). Production so-so and PvP so-so. Do I feel I wasted any of these SP? Well, now that I'm acquiring an alt for PvP, and created another alt for indie, I feel I have, while, before I was using, and still currently (and for now) use, all the skills Aidon has. I feel I may have wasted my time, not SP. Those are two different things, as even though time means SP and SP means time, his skills are still usable, and he already owns a variety of different ships for different purposes.
If I had the income to afford to do this a year ago, I could have train Sibius for pure PvE/incursion piloting and some other stuff that isn't covered by my two new alts, and that primarily being furthering is PvE skills and incursion skills. My new PvP alt can fly a Tengu and has T2 heavies and T2 HAMs. And he's already pretty close to being able to fit covert ops cloaking devices so now it's only a matter of time of training him into a Manticore and training hacking/scanning skills so he'd be decent in PvP and explo, since he's already only a month away from being able to use covert ops, the prefered method for being a good explorer. And he can already use T2 cruisers so once I can use T2 frigs all those skill points in Aidon that I have thrown towards PvP/explo would essentially become 'wasted', but this is only in my mind, as if I tried to sell him he'd be decent for someone looking specifically for a well-rounded character, who doesn't want to have alts, or doesn't want more than 2 alts (like say someone with a pure indie pilot that wants a combat pilot, and that can supplement his indie pilot with additional PI if that's his/her thing, and someone else that can fly barges to be able to mine more and produce more).
In the end, it could perhaps be 'wasted' if I'm trying to sell him off as a focused pilot to someone looking for a focused character, but not wasted for someone looking for a well-rounded character, especially maybe to someone that wants to try each area of operations out before making another alt and wasting time training SP for something he/she may not actually like or end up not wanting to do, or before that new player that doesn't mind buying a few plexes to start out with creates a character from scratch, that has the same thing in mind. What's your opinion on this matter? Do you feel that wasted skill points is something that is factual, and has a definition that could apply to any character? Then again, what's the actual MEANING of wasted skill points? |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
957
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Posted - 2014.01.02 17:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sibius Aidon wrote:Then again, what's the actual MEANING of wasted skill points? It is mainly a way for character traders to lowball characters that don't have 100% of the SP allocated to what they are looking for.
I'm sure someone will argue that I have some wasted SP on this char as well... Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3337
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Posted - 2014.01.02 18:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some people feel they "wasted skillpoints" when they invested training into a weapon system, ship hull, or ingame activity that they no longer utilize. These players whine loudest when CCP rebalances the game, resulting in shifts in the game's environment.
These players ignore the fact that they can still utilize those skillpoints, and mainly complain because the changes mean they no longer have the most ideal skillset/toolset.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
312
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Posted - 2014.01.02 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think the term means training Industrial Construction past level 3. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3046
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Posted - 2014.01.02 22:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I think the term means training Industrial Construction past level 3. Or Battleship Construction 5.
[For non-manufacturers, neither skill levels are required by any blueprint, nor do the skill levels offer any other advantage.]
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Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
393
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Posted - 2014.01.03 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
PLEX for the Removal of Unwanted/Wasted Skills
You do not get the skill points or skill books reimbursed.
R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Sibius Aidon
Prototype Concept Divide By Zero Alliance
24
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Posted - 2014.01.03 14:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Now, that's a waste of money (and time). If I were to use a PLEX to remove SP I'd want the SP back from all those days I spent waiting for the skill to finish. Otherwise I'd just keep the skill. In hopes that I'd find a reason to use it. |
George Gouillot
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
9
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Posted - 2014.01.03 15:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Astronautic Engineering
"Skill and knowledge of Astronautics and its use in the development of advanced technology. This skill has no practical application for capsuleers, and proficiency in its use conveys little more than bragging rights. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts"
So even with this you get something |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2873
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Posted - 2014.01.04 07:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mining skills are wasted skill points. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Herrin Asura
Covert Agency for Surreptitious Annihilation
4
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sibius Aidon wrote:Now, that's a waste of money (and time). If I were to use a PLEX to remove SP I'd want the SP back from all those days I spent waiting for the skill to finish. Otherwise I'd just keep the skill. In hopes that I'd find a reason to use it.
I would buy a plex to get Mining II, Gunnery II and small Energy Turrent III removed from my Character. It makes me sick. And I am serious. |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1767
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Posted - 2014.01.07 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sibius Aidon wrote:Now, that's a waste of money (and time). If I were to use a PLEX to remove SP I'd want the SP back from all those days I spent waiting for the skill to finish. Otherwise I'd just keep the skill. In hopes that I'd find a reason to use it. if i had to guess, i would say that roughly one in ten players would gladly pay a plex to be able to unlearn some skills, even if he will not get the skill points back. people like efficiency and for some reason they seem to hate mining III.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
197
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Posted - 2014.01.07 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you play this game for a while you'll find you'll end up with skills that you happily trade for unallocated skill points. For me the mining skills I have are pretty useless. Sure I use them every so often as a lark, when bored/baiting in a wormhole, or the corp I'm in decides to go nuts building a cap in a wormhole, but really I only have them because they were required for an Orca back in the day. Likewise I've got a lot research skills which I got for passive income from research agents. Then there were all the skill I trained to have all the starter profession certs, and hull tanking elite.... (Although honestly my elite hull tanking skills have saved me on at least one occasion in a fleet battle, and are rather important when tanking an Orca for hauling or bait.) Honestly when I think about it none of the skills were really wasted I made good isk back in the day with research agents, could fly an Orca, and derived amusement from my certs plus have the ability to fly virtually any T1 ship and weapon system. Also the devs heard us Elite Hull Tankers on the forums and gave us a memento...
On the other hand when you are buying or selling an alt you usually are buying for a given purpose. If you want a pvp alt mining, research, and trade skills aren't worth as much point per point. Like wise lots of ship skill aren't worth as much on a trade alt that is going to sit in station all day. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
395
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Posted - 2014.01.07 17:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have a total of 270 skills at 105 mil SP. If I could use a PLEX to remove unwanted/unused skills even if I do not get reimbursed for them, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I have 43 skills I would delete that total about 4 mil SP. I would do this because I do not care for them. Some skills I trained to try something new out, like PI. Those 5 skills I did used for awhile, but got tired of all the clicking. I do not do PI & will never do PI again. I also trained Research agents when I was young & the passive income was worth it. But CCP nerfed that into the ground & it is not worth it anymore. I would remove all of them.
Mining Level 3 enough said.
I am not trying to reduced my SP to get a cheaper clone because at this point 105 mil SP - 4 mil Sp equals 101 mil SP. I am still in the same clone upgrade range.
I am OCD about my skill sheet & how it looks. Charge me a PLEX to allow me to remove these skills. I do not want to get reimbursed, because I did make the decision to plug them in. But I should be allowed to unplug them too. The penalty for this would be for me not to get reimbursed for skill points or skill books.
This PLEX for Removal of Unwanted/Unused Skills would get for more use than the PLEX for Re-Scuplt. I know many pilots in New Eden & never have once have I heard anyone using the PLEX for Re-Sculpt. I would love to see CCP give us an usage number for PLEX for Re-Sculpt. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2175
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Posted - 2014.01.14 02:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
PI is a classic example. When first introduced, everyone jumped on it - hey, free ISK, right? Then CCP decided to do the POCO thing and now everyplace has a POCO and a 1000000% tax rate which means that PI is no longer worthwhile to anyone but to the POCO owners themselves. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1735
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Posted - 2014.01.14 04:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
I've found uses for the mining skill training I did as a newbie.
I can fly a Procurer when a warpin is needed for a gank fleet. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. EVE's golden rule: Never trust anyone in-game unless you are sleeping with them in real life. Even then, they may only be screwing you to screw you. |
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
0
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Posted - 2014.01.14 15:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
if your not trained on a destroyer like catalyst or thrasher or a teir 3 bc its wasted sp anymore with the current game play styles |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13562
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Posted - 2014.01.14 22:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
There are no such things as "wasted skillpoints", only skills you're not using right at this moment.
Arguably there's a case to be made for "skillpoints earned in a sub-optimal order", but eh.
1 Kings 12:11
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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
321
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Posted - 2014.01.15 01:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
DUST 514 has a lot of these. There's no benefit, requirement, or reason to train Dropsuit Command past III, for example. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
599
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
My wasted skill points are "High Energy Physics" to 4. CCP said this would be needed for the Bastion module then about a week before the patch they were like oh just kidding you don't need any extra skill for this module....
I'm not sure what bothers me more, 4 days of wasted training or having a useless skill I can't delete. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
599
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime wrote:if your not trained on a destroyer like catalyst or thrasher or a teir 3 bc its wasted sp anymore with the current game play styles
So many suicide gankers would disagree |
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Idicious Lightbane
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
52
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Posted - 2014.01.15 07:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
I haven't used my indy skills in years (since I started pvp'ing) If you could simply delete skills without reimbursement I probably would just ot clean up my sheet. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1996
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 07:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:There are no such things as "wasted skillpoints", only skills you're not using right at this moment.
Arguably there's a case to be made for "skillpoints earned in a sub-optimal order", but eh.
I'm going to have to just quote this for great justice. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
396
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 15:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:There are no such things as "wasted skillpoints", only skills you're not using right at this moment.
Arguably there's a case to be made for "skillpoints earned in a sub-optimal order", but eh.
This is totally untrue. This is your opinion and maybe others but not mine.
Like I said in my previous post, I have trained skills to try out some new feature(PI) out because well you cant try the feature out without training skills. I decided after trying this new feature (PI) that I did not care for it & would NEVER use it again.
So why not let me remove the skills? I understand that I injected them, and for that reason, I DO NOT deserve to get the skill points or skill books reimbursed.
But it should be my choice to remove the skills, just like it was my choice to inject them. I am not gaining an advantage over anyone by removing the skills.
P.S. The issue with removing skills just to get a cheaper clone is mute. CCP already nerfed clones & said they think it is bad and needs changing anyways. If anything charge me a PLEX also to remove skills. The cost of the PLEX far exceeds any clone costs charge me for many, many, many pod losses. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1996
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Moot, god damn it. Not mute. Moot. |
Paul Panala
Circulus Exousias Sentinel Alliance
156
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
It all depends on what you want to do. If you enjoy doing a little of everything that is fine, it just means you will not be able to do anything as well as someone focused to that task.
The term "wasted" just refers to skills you don't use anymore. I started the game thinking I would go indi, lost interest in that and switched to combat. I have about 2 million skill points in indi that I never use. To me, those are wasted.
When buying a toon typically look for a specific task. Any skill points not used by that task do nothing for the value of that toon in their eyes. If they are looking for a PvP toon, and you have 10m SP in indi, they will probably lower their bid accordingly so they are only paying for the SP they actually want. Most people who buy are looking for an alt to do something spacific, they don't want a well rounded character. |
Zircon Dasher
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 22:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Herrin Asura wrote: I would buy a plex to get Mining II, Gunnery II and small Energy Turrent III removed from my Character. It makes me sick. And I am serious.
Are you sure its not the chemotherapy? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Desmond Strickler
End-of-Line
33
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Posted - 2014.01.20 03:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Mining skills are wasted skill points.
Mining Frigate V for my pvp venture. Definitely not wasted skill points. The Black Prince of Wormholes-á
Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy
"My other dread is a Swaglafar" |
Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
199
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Posted - 2014.01.21 06:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Desmond Strickler wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Mining skills are wasted skill points. Mining Frigate V for my pvp venture. Definitely not wasted skill points.
Des you didnt tell me you have a pvp venture
ill have to spin up a pvp procurer and we can wreck some **** Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction The Devil's Warrior Alliance
110
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:I have a total of 270 skills at 105 mil SP. If I could use a PLEX to remove unwanted/unused skills even if I do not get reimbursed for them, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I have 43 skills I would delete that total about 4 mil SP. I would do this because I do not care for them. Some skills I trained to try something new out, like PI. Those 5 skills I did used for awhile, but got tired of all the clicking. I do not do PI & will never do PI again. I also trained Research agents when I was young & the passive income was worth it. But CCP nerfed that into the ground & it is not worth it anymore. I would remove all of them.
Mining Level 3 enough said.
I am not trying to reduced my SP to get a cheaper clone because at this point 105 mil SP - 4 mil Sp equals 101 mil SP. I am still in the same clone upgrade range.
I am OCD about my skill sheet & how it looks. Charge me a PLEX to allow me to remove these skills. I do not want to get reimbursed, because I did make the decision to plug them in. But I should be allowed to unplug them too. The penalty for this would be for me not to get reimbursed for skill points or skill books.
This PLEX for Removal of Unwanted/Unused Skills would get for more use than the PLEX for Re-Scuplt. I know many pilots in New Eden & never have once have I heard anyone using the PLEX for Re-Sculpt. I would love to see CCP give us an usage number for PLEX for Re-Sculpt.
I have resculpted twice... you know, for those not-so-self-confident internet spaceship moments http://www.devilswarrior.info/killboard/?a=home |
Yolo
Yolo Corp xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
134
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Posted - 2014.01.23 06:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Anything your not using is 'waster'. So you will use only a percentage of your skills no matter how you look at it. - since 2003, bitches |
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