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Kaali Ma
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
So this has been bugging me for a short while, I don't know whether a dev will comment on this. I have no idea if it's been mentioned before, it's more of a style or QoL thing though maybe.
Fictional e.g. an Assault Frigate requires Caldari Frigate V as a prerequisite to fly it, and the ship has a bonus of 20% missile damage per level of Caldari Frigate.
Now this makes sense, sort of, but let's not forget ships can also receive Role Bonuses, e.g. "can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device" or similar. Now my thinking is that rather than this thought process:
"Oh a 20% bonus per level for Caldari Frigates - that's cool - ok that's 20%*5 = 100% - cool, I get double damage with missiles."
How about this one:
"Ok... prerequisites nailed, I can fly this ship at last - oh cool! I get 100% bonus to missile damage as a role speciality - w00t!"
Or something.
Does anyone else agree that a level V prerequisite giving a bonus per level is a bit like adding maths instead of "wow" factor ad style?
Thanks for reading.
Fly safe; stay nub. o7 |
Miasmos
Aliastra Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2014.01.04 20:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fully agree, it's pointless and puts unnecessary text on screen. Should be a flat out "role bonus". Less is more. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1974
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Before the racial BC/destroyer split there was a fringe case where you could fly CSs without having BC 5 so long as you once had it at 5 in order to inject the CS book. That no longer appears to be the case. At this point I'm somewhat tempted to agree that this is somewhat confusing for no real reason.
On the flip side, you could argue that the racial base ship skills do show some pattern of inheritance for the T2 hulls -- but that's kind of weak and not all that important. |
Cmd BenJames
S T R A T C O M
2
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Posted - 2014.01.04 21:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well realistically it wouldn't be called a "Role bonus" or "Role speciality" since they tend to be mirrored across every ship in the class including other races.
It either sticks as it is which doesn't seem much of a problem to use simple maths to figure the magnitude of the bonuses, or they create a new heading in which to put the bonuses under which would be unique to each ship. |
Kaali Ma
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.01.05 01:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Before the racial BC/destroyer split there was a fringe case where you could fly CSs without having BC 5 so long as you once had it at 5 in order to inject the CS book. That no longer appears to be the case. At this point I'm somewhat tempted to agree that this is somewhat confusing for no real reason.
On the flip side, you could argue that the racial base ship skills do show some pattern of inheritance for the T2 hulls -- but that's kind of weak and not all that important.
I didn't know that! But I'm kind of perma nub, even after 10 years on and off.
I tried to outline in my OP that the prerequisites outline the, um, prerequisites: I think the racial hull thing is important to appreciate in the culture of EVE, but the way it's presented is at least somewhat inappropriate IMHO.
Thanks :) |
Kaali Ma
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.01.05 01:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cmd BenJames wrote:Well realistically it wouldn't be called a "Role bonus" or "Role speciality" since they tend to be mirrored across every ship in the class including other races.
It either sticks as it is which doesn't seem much of a problem to use simple maths to figure the magnitude of the bonuses, or they create a new heading in which to put the bonuses under which would be unique to each ship.
I need to look at this outside of just Caldari ships, and I'm by no means an expert, but I thought ship families, e.g. assault frigates, had roles and therefore any bonuses to them could be role bonuses, whether the whole family get the bonuses or just one or two.
Re the maths, the complexity is not the problem, for me it's more the issues of a) why have maths when there's no need, regardless of difficulty, and b) "wow" factor for special ship types as I said in the OP.
Thanks :) |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
349
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Posted - 2014.01.06 13:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaali Ma wrote:Cmd BenJames wrote:Well realistically it wouldn't be called a "Role bonus" or "Role speciality" since they tend to be mirrored across every ship in the class including other races.
It either sticks as it is which doesn't seem much of a problem to use simple maths to figure the magnitude of the bonuses, or they create a new heading in which to put the bonuses under which would be unique to each ship. I need to look at this outside of just Caldari ships, and I'm by no means an expert, but I thought ship families, e.g. assault frigates, had roles and therefore any bonuses to them could be role bonuses, whether the whole family get the bonuses or just one or two. Re the maths, the complexity is not the problem, for me it's more the issues of a) why have maths when there's no need, regardless of difficulty, and b) "wow" factor for special ship types as I said in the OP. Thanks :)
still can't really have this family idea. Even your caldari family is too varied to have a "family" role. hawk is damage and rof. harpy is range and resists.
Gallente is damage and drones for ishkur and pure gun damage enyo. Amarr is different as well.
Hell your only "family role" candidate is minmatar since Jag/wolf are damage + tracking. And well with these 2 your idea of role bonus gets completely blown out. On paper jag's role is arty boat. Wolf in many people's opinions runs them much better. Which is odd....wolf's role on paper is an AC boat.
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
227
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Posted - 2014.01.06 13:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Discounting any possible edge cases where changes to the way prerequisites function (since the Command Ship and Freighter rebalances) which might make it possible to fly certain ships of this type with less than the full bonus, many of the T2 ships predate the existance of such a thing as a "Role Bonus".
Moreover I disagree with the assertion that adding maths is not a good thing. |
Dianna Reed
Angel's Revenge Dragons of Fire and Ice
0
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Does it make sense to just make the racial ship bonus a role bonus? Yes.
Is it easier to just leave it like it is? Yes.
Because laziness > sense I don't think they are gonna touch this for a very long time. |
Sid Crash
47
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Posted - 2014.01.07 06:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meh, you can argue both ways. Yes it's a bit of an eye sore and you actually have to do some maths, but at the same time it shows the logic and reasoning behind the bonuses and what makes the T2 ship special. |
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
2610
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Posted - 2014.01.08 01:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
It allows CCP to make the TII ships require a lower than perfect level of the TI skill at some point in the future (as they did recently with capitals), without having to redo the bonuses. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
590
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Posted - 2014.01.08 07:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nothing to stop you losing skills after being able to fly them (podding & old clone) |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
227
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Posted - 2014.01.08 08:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Except that in the examples stated (Assault ships, the Hawk in particular) the prereq in question is a direct skill requirement - losing the Caldari frigate skill in a cloning incident will (as far as I'm aware) make it impossible to board such a ship. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1169
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Miasmos wrote:Fully agree, it's pointless and puts unnecessary text on screen. Should be a flat out "role bonus". Less is more.
THere is an exception, Jump Freighers only require the base freighter skill at 5. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
55
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Miasmos wrote:Fully agree, it's pointless and puts unnecessary text on screen. Should be a flat out "role bonus". Less is more. THere is an exception, Jump Freighers only require the base freighter skill at 5. you mean 4...
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1186
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nimrod vanHall wrote:Batelle wrote:Miasmos wrote:Fully agree, it's pointless and puts unnecessary text on screen. Should be a flat out "role bonus". Less is more. THere is an exception, Jump Freighers only require the base freighter skill at 5. you mean 4...
yes. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
403
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Posted - 2014.01.10 21:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dianna Reed wrote:Does it make sense to just make the racial ship bonus a role bonus? Yes.
Is it easier to just leave it like it is? Yes.
Because laziness > sense I don't think they are gonna touch this for a very long time.
Not so much laziness as not wanting to waste development time on a pointless text change that really isn't all that confusing to anyone who can actually play a game as complex as this. |
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