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Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
29
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello.
Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
312
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Clearly you have not been living in nullsec. Great wars are nothing if not grinding... We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do... |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hello.
Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
Better yet use the FPS model where you just spawn in a small gang with a free ship and if it gets blown up you respawn in a new free ship at the spawn point. Sucks if the bad guys camp your spawn point though.
To make it even more fun you could have red and blue flags you need to capture. |
Clem Fandango
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hello.
Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
Most creative and intelligent people don't do ratting or mining to make ISK. All you are suggesting is making it possible for non-creative and stupid people to do the same. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18740
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not really.
Sure, it would be great if all the boring, repetitive tasks were removed, but only if they were replaced by fun, dynamic tasks. Replacing it with passive income would just make it worse. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
337
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote: (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
It smells like bot in here.
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
4298
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hello.
Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
A few comments, completely off the top of my head: - I think that Eve is successful as a game because some amount of grinding provides a sense of personal value to your in game items. The risk and loss of items that have personal value is an important aspect in keeping people engaged and competitive in the game. - You couldn't make this kind of change without changing the genre of the game. - I think this same line of reasoning could be applied to any game, all the way to the point where you're just watching a movie about what your character does.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
8817
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stealth "Things cost too much" thread.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3056
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
But my income IS passive. Gotta love industry and trade. |
JD No7
V I R I I Ineluctable.
80
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Am I some kind of strange creature that, whilst a PVPer at heart, still enjoys Exploration and Plexes in 0.0, and Wormhole PVE?
I think most people who complain about the grind need to get out of Highsec... |
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1432
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
... marvels at the (de-)evolution of the EVE "mindset" and how it is rapidly approaching par with the attention span of a goldfish where anything requiring effort and participation is concerned. Desmond Morris should write a book/do a show about this.
Can't have a proper Apocalypse without "The Man", Johnny Cash. -áTrue story.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4201
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Posted - 2014.01.06 00:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hello.
Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?
Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
The only people who'd think this would be more fun are people addicted to (combat/pewpew) pvp. I like pew-pewwing in games from time to time, but hell I pvp all day at work, coming home and shoting some red crosses/space zombies is relaxing lol.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
2815
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Posted - 2014.01.06 00:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote: If all income was passive? No.
Half or more of the fun in EVE is actively swiping other folks' stuff. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
14
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Posted - 2014.01.06 00:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
OK what? So you want to play War Thunder, World of Tanks etc then...please go play that and stop talking rubbish.
Just because your one play style would be great with passive income why would anyone elses be?
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Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
61
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Posted - 2014.01.06 00:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Without work, there's no value in what you possess.
The issue is not the grind itself, but that it's not challenging enough. It's too repetitive, too easy and players can too easily tell others how to go the easy way through it. New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
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Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
322
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Posted - 2014.01.06 01:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in. People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
Well there are places where that exists, they are called China, Cuba, Laos, N.Kora and Vietnam. I just don't consider them entirely fun.
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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Itinerant Empire
233
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Posted - 2014.01.06 01:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Outside of hi sec there is plenty of PVP content that revolves around PVE content, the problem is that people can't be encouraged to try them so they run missions and complain how boring and **** they are. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4640
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Posted - 2014.01.06 01:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sure it'd be more fun for people who enjoy ship on ship combat... but what about people who enjoy industry and trade? Some people genuinely have more fun being support for the "meatsacks" out there.
Then there is the issue with value. What value is there in a win or loss if it just "goes away" within a certain period of time? Aside from ego they become meaningless. People might stop trying to be "better" and adapt with every fight if they no that a loss won't hurt them. I personally strive to become a better PvPer because each loss hurts... because each time I lose a ship I have to spend painful amounts of time doing things I don't want to do (e.g. PvE, hauling, doing inventory checks on what I have in the hanger, etc.).
I may not like logistics... and I may hate PvE... but in a perverse way it makes fighting just a little more fun... especially when I know that the guy I have just blown up has to do the same thing. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Katran Luftschreck
Stillwater Corporation
2146
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Posted - 2014.01.06 02:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dasola wrote:Clearly you have not been living in nullsec. Great wars are nothing if not grinding...
And don't forget the moon goo ... possibly the biggest passive income generator around. RMT would probably grind to a halt without it.
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
286
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Posted - 2014.01.06 02:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Go play Call of Duty and leave EvE alone. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
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Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
29
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Posted - 2014.01.06 03:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hold on a minute, what about the people who believe the game should be more pvp focused?
Why aren't they posting in here? XD.
So basically what you're saying is, Joe Bloggs spends hours doing an incredibly easy task with very little risk (level 4s in hisec for example) and this should give him a huge advantage in the PvP game in terms of what ships and modules he can use?
I don't want having to work for things removed, or for things to be less valuableGÇöI am asking what the game would be like if these ISK making tasks were about skill and intelligence (EG: PvP) instead of mindless grinding. |
SlickReed
Dominion Tenebrarum Axiomatic Dominion
0
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Posted - 2014.01.06 03:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
IMO EVE is more of a simulator then a game. Meaning you have to work for your ISK daily or learn ways to make income passive like trade and industry or pirating. When I started in EVE I didn't understand or appreciate the grind but I have grown to like it. When you see a player in a ship that takes months to train for ( not including the fittings) tearing it up on a kill mail it means more knowing he had to work to get there. Not including the player that buy toons from the bazaar of course but you see those players getting ganked in billion ISK ships with **** fits lol. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4092
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Minigames for everybody. |
Jamagh
Sci Adventures
138
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have said it before, I enjoy mining. For the sake of mining. It is relaxing. Yes, it is boring, and mindless. Remove that, and I have no reason to play this game. I don't get the "thrill" of pvp. For me it is just something other people do, and I hope they don't do it around/to me. That is the way they want to play. Let me mine, I will make sure you have new things to blow up. Hurting me, only hurts yourself. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote: skill and intelligence (EG: PvP)
Compared to something like a combat flight sim or even a FPS the skill required is not high ... even if you do "manually fly" which very few people seem to bother with.
As for intelligence, well when you can download optimal fits or follow a fleet doctrine (and get trained in basic PvP tactics in a few sort weeks in a good corp) you do not need to be that intelligent.
PvP in EVE is not really that hard, especially when you look at some of the kill-whores out and about :D ... come to Hek sometime
EDIT ... I also would mention I actually LIKE the idea that other people can AFK mine and fly AFK freighters because it means I can buy Trit for 4.4 ISK a unit instead of the 10 or 20 it would otherwise cost and I can freight Billion ISK cargos anywhere in high for less than 15 mill ISK with Red Frog and send several bill ISK through low for as little as 100 mill with Black Frog. Other people AFK grinding actually makes things better for me. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
491
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
I can tell you that after 8 years on and off, I don't do any of the mindless grind. I also very seldom undock and 7 or 8 months of the year, don't even subscribe to EVE. One of the reasons the majority of the content you do in high sec is boring is not because it's mindless, it's because it's meaningless.
So no, taking the mindless grind out of EVE won't make it any more fun. Everything on test server is 100 ISK. You can undock ten thousand ships, fit with the greatest tech you can skill for. Watch it blow up over and over. An average of 500 people do this. The rest never do. Why? Because it's pointless.
R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6101
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jamagh wrote:I have said it before, I enjoy mining. For the sake of mining. It is relaxing. Yes, it is boring, and mindless. Remove that, and I have no reason to play this game. How fortunate for you o/ ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4641
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Hold on a minute, what about the people who believe the game should be more pvp focused?
Why aren't they posting in here? XD. Quite a few have. I'm one of them.
Diamond Zerg wrote:So basically what you're saying is, Joe Bloggs spends hours doing an incredibly easy task with very little risk (level 4s in hisec for example) and this should give him a huge advantage in the PvP game in terms of what ships and modules he can use? If "Joe Bloggs" is willing to spend the time and effort collecting the necessary money and resources to buy or make ships, modules, and resources and get them to the places he/she wants to get them to... then I fail to see a problem. He/She simply made the necessary preparations to do what he/she wants to do.
Diamond Zerg wrote:I don't want having to work for things removed, or for things to be less valuableGÇöI am asking what the game would be like if these ISK making tasks were about skill and intelligence (EG: PvP) instead of mindless grinding. I guess we have different definitions of "skill and intelligence."
Yours appears to focus primarily on ship to ship combat. If ISK and resources were gained passively then yes... there would be more tactics and combat going around.
HOWEVER... because combat in EVE also requires huge amounts of resources and logistical effort (as I mentioned above) you have to look at the "bigger picture" and prepare accordingly. "Skill and intelligence" is required in setting these things and if you fail to do this... or an enemy has the "skill and intelligence" to disrupt it... then you will lose through simple attrition no matter how skilled you are in combat (incredibly enough, this is what theoretically gives newbies a fighting chance... if you can't fight against someone directly then start working on their squishier support network).
Some examples: - I've heard stories about how various Null-sec alliances have used their crack squads of number-crunchers as "advance teams" to throw rival alliances' economies into chaos just prior to an invasion. - The notorious "AFK-cloakers" many people use are a form of psychological warfare that also affects null-sec economies by playing on fears alone. - Goonswarm has even done several "Ice Interdictions" in high-sec (where the suicide ganked any ice miner in sight) to drive up the prices of ice based products that they had stockpiled to both earn more ISK and put pressure on the research efforts of their enemies.
THIS is what makes EVE interesting. Warfare here is not simply ship on ship combat... it involves economic and logistical warfare as well. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6101
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Posted - 2014.01.06 05:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:- I've heard stories about how various Null-sec alliances have used their crack squads of number-crunchers as "advance teams" to throw rival alliances' economies into chaos just prior to an invasion. Wow, so dishonorable. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.01.06 06:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
One of the things that makes EVE so engaging is its variety. It sounds like what you want to do is remove all the stuff that you personally find "boring" and just keep the part that you personally like. Thankfully, CCP is catering to a wider audience than just you.
As others have said, mining may be "boring" but the mindless aspect of it can be relaxing. After hours of combat I like to take a break from all of that and do something mindless for awhile.
I also agree with the statements about personal value. If you want to fund your PvP activities, then drag your ass out to the asteroid belt like everyone else. Or you can use your "creativity and intelligence" to make your ISK another way. Plenty of people generate their income in more passive activities.
I think EVE is very well balanced in this regard.
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