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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Shin Ra
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Posted - 2006.03.19 12:52:00 -
[31]
Ok how about more than 4 of the same class of ships has no effect. This means in fleet battles, you would have a lot more frigs, cruisers, bc and what not. Plus it would mean people wouldn't have to fight at 200km and could go back to have 40km engagements. People would need to be organised into smaller groups and instead of hoping the guy lags and doesnt warp, you would actually have to scramble the guy. It would also make close ranged ships such as raven dom and blasterthron a lot more viable. I realise they probably would implement this as public opinion is against it, but its an interesting idea ntl.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.03.19 12:57:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Kye Kenshin
hmm im gonna actually disagree here with fleet battles lasting only 10 secs.
The G/IRON/RAZOR/CELES Vs 5/F-E/KAOS/BMC fight in H-W the other night felt like it lasted as long as an hour.
But then it was on a pretty massive scale.
there died about 140-160 ships, so it had to take quite a while
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Alpdruck
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Posted - 2006.03.19 13:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nafri
make warping much slower and harder (about 2mins to align to warp for a BS, and maybe a warp generator has toload each time).
You would need to re-work travel, too, because that would mess up travelling in a BS in a major way.
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Dark Eulogy
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Posted - 2006.03.19 13:28:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dark Eulogy on 19/03/2006 13:29:23
They are fine now.
The only thing that would improve PvP would be an added manual-aiming system that gave a boost to damage or something.
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.03.19 13:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
OR remove the range on ammonution and make only one ammo, this way your forced to fight at a certain range which leads to deploying of forces more tactical, tachyon apocs behind the megapulses, and then you would actully have to move around the battlefield to get into range instead of sitting still and shoot everything that moves..
This would simply lead to fleets consisting entirely of one type of weapon. Which wouldn't change a damn thing.
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.03.19 13:45:00 -
[36]
The reason why combat is so fast is becuase of support. Even with someone in the same sytem, currently its entirely possible to shred a target before ever inties arrive in support.
If you slow down combat 1 vs 1 your looking down the barrle of having friends from 1 or 2 jumps out being able to come and help out in the original fight, not just avenge the guys death. As far as im concerned that sucks.
Currently i mainly see 'oppertunistic' pvp .. ie i see a red guy and shoot at him and vice verce... but no war as such. This would be destroyed anytime that your not vastly outclassing the other guy, and in that context hes not going to engage anyway.
Yes i would like to see my mighty battleship exchanging vollies with an enemy for more than a minute at a time, but thats a pipe dream and would destroy either BSs ability to really fight each otehr if you nerf their guns, or destroy smaller ships ability to attack them if you boost their tank or hp.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:19:00 -
[37]
tbh, it seems like you can shred BS's fast with loads of frigates because quite often the battleship you catch is either stabbed up or just doesn't have a tank on whatsoever.
I recently died in a 2v11 fight (I was one of the two :P) It started off small but as the fight went on they called in more and more frigates and cruisers to fight us. I was happily tanking them until there were more than 5 ceptors/assault frigs shooting at me, along with a Raven that eventually showed up. Even so, my tank held up under the fire for like 45 seconds once the Ravens added firepower came in. It was approximately 3 and a half to 4 minutes into the fight that i went down.
How much longer do fights need to be? If people would stop wasting slots to warp stabs and actually fitted out their ships to endure PVP fights with decent tanks, your fights would last longer and end up being more enjoyable because of it.
I don't really have any problems with the lenghts of fights now. Small fleet actions tend to be over far too quick, but once or twice I've been in those 'epic' two hour long fleet battles, and they were fun :P
p.s Close range ftw.
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Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Celador Nane
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Make damage stack. More than 4 ships shooting a target has no effect. Also increase agression timer.
Wow, great idea, il get 4 noob accounts in ibis's to shoot my BS then i can be invincible!!!! (thinking outside the box 4tw!)
Oh, and that idea blows.... 
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Xanthous
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:33:00 -
[39]
Everyone fits to gank in pvp because the defensive modules are nowhere near as powerful as the offensive ones. Theres no way you can tank a guy that has a gank setup on because the amount of damage in eve is crazy. Best way is to load up with plates and pray you out last the other guy. |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
OR remove the range on ammonution and make only one ammo, this way your forced to fight at a certain range which leads to deploying of forces more tactical, tachyon apocs behind the megapulses, and then you would actully have to move around the battlefield to get into range instead of sitting still and shoot everything that moves..
This would simply lead to fleets consisting entirely of one type of weapon. Which wouldn't change a damn thing.
10 versus 10, all use tachyons, you get a shorter range weapon and get close, now you can blast them becouse they are in your optimal and they are not... of course tracking has to be changed with it so that each weapon has its own purpose.
we already have this balance when taking battleships versus other small ships, but not battleships versus other battleship guns.
"We brake for nobody"
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:42:00 -
[41]
I've seen fleetbattles last longer then an hour and a half.
More then once.
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Cade Morrigan
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:27:00 -
[42]
I question whether the OP gave a hoot about big fleet battles, sounds more like small unit operations he's frustrated with.
One thing I don't understand about recent changes to the game... The devs added more shield and armor to ships with the intent of making ships last longer in battle; not enough was added to help extend ship life in fleet battles but for smaller ops, great. But they also introduced T2 ammo which offers many new ways to increase a ship's DPS in a big way. Together those changes are counter-productive and don't seem well thought out at all.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:53:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/03/2006 15:53:56
Originally by: Shin Ra
Ok how about more than 4 of the same class of ships has no effect. This means in fleet battles, you would have a lot more frigs, cruisers, bc and what not. Plus it would mean people wouldn't have to fight at 200km and could go back to have 40km engagements. People would need to be organised into smaller groups and instead of hoping the guy lags and doesnt warp, you would actually have to scramble the guy. It would also make close ranged ships such as raven dom and blasterthron a lot more viable. I realise they probably would implement this as public opinion is against it, but its an interesting idea ntl.
Again, impractical. Most fleet battles are at ranges which exclude anything except BS and a few HAC's with sniper setups from participating - and the sniper HAC's can get taken out by burst damage even from 4 BS very quickly, so they're an expensive loss in those situations.
If you think people will magically start fighting at closer range, you're dreaming. Indeed, that encurages longer range fighting because people don't want to die.
If you want to force closer range fighting, halve both bonuses on sensor boosters.
Rod Blaine, me too. Just not recently. (And before anyone asks "when have you been in a fleet battle recently", I've watched some cloaked as an observer. Thanks)
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:10:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe on 19/03/2006 18:12:22
Wups. Shin Ra already posted what I was going to say. Way to not read the thread self 
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:13:00 -
[45]
And how is this magic cap going to be explained?
I really DON'T want to be going over gang member setups with a calculator before each trip to ensure that we had the magic damage which could overcome a tank...this suggestion would force me to do just that.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And how is this magic cap going to be explained?
I really DON'T want to be going over gang member setups with a calculator before each trip to ensure that we had the magic damage which could overcome a tank...this suggestion would force me to do just that.
Whats wrong with running numbers before hand? The more tactics and planning involved the better imo.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:22:00 -
[47]
No, that is not tactics. It is strategy.
And we're not talking about anything like range, which is easy enough to mandate, we're talking about 30+ mins of calculation before I could take a gang out. Remembering the MAGIC of different ship types in a gang would throw everything off, and there would have to be a mandartory limit on damage below which you were a parasitic drain on the gang.. (excluding lower skilled players).
Etc.
It's really very complex and adds little beyond confusion. There are other mechanisms such as partial jams which should be explored first.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:25:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Sir Juri on 19/03/2006 18:25:42
wrong forum, for this thread...
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Cmdr Patrick
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Cmdr Patrick on 19/03/2006 18:28:41
Originally by: Shin Ra
Make damage stack. More than 4 ships shooting a target has no effect. Also increase agression timer.
yes! increase aggro timer
edit and bring back the old map routes for travel.
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:47:00 -
[50]
I think either reduce all range weapon by half or triple all ships's velocity + turret tracking, or maybe both.
The fleet battles now are kind of boring, ppl shooting at each other 100km+ apart and you only get to kill someone or be killed due to lag, there is no tactic other than calling primary and secondary. there are no heavy calvery like AC tempest or blasterthrone in place of fleet battle.
kind of miss the oversize AB rupture......
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.19 18:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: xaioguai
...
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee***k!!!
Xaio! Is that me in you siggy?
  
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
ActiveX
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:03:00 -
[52]
Edited by: ActiveX on 19/03/2006 19:05:17
Ive always been one for a damage model where if all ships target one ship and fire, it takes a few seconds for the ship to acctualy blow up. For example, 5 tempests target and fire on a Mega, the damage hits for full, but only so much damage is done to the target. I.E. if 40k points of damage are done on the target with 30k hitpoints (raw, no resists) it will take 12 seconds for the ship to explode.. (2.5k damage is rendered to the ship per second.)
Now two things can happen. A friendly ship can target and remote boost shields or armor for a total of >10k hitpoints in those 12 seconds, the ship can boost its self in addition, or the ship warps out. If no assistance is given or the ship cannot warp the ship explodes. This would make all ships have much more survivability. Of course other than tanking mods the offensive systems on the ship are shut down, including targeting. All they can do is attempt to repair the damage.
The idea needs to be toyed with, but if it is implimented correctly it could change the world of PVP in EVE. Fleet battles wouldnt last A hour, they would last 2, 3, 4 hours... enough time for fleets to call in reinforcements and change the tide of a battle that is lopsided at first.
Edit: As a quick addition this would also make a small fleet with a carrier or mothership able to take on a large fleet. Especialy a well coordinated gang. This would make corps such as Burn Eden (who are good at what they do) more willing to pit their fleets against the inevitable blobs that alliances such as the one I belong would throw at them. Not because they want 200 pilots, but because thats how many people showed up.
____________
Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Celador Nane
Originally by: Shin Ra
More than 4 ships shooting a target has no effect. Also increase agression timer.
Oh, and that idea blows....
QFE
Ridiculous ideas...i cannot come up with a better option at this time though 
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:50:00 -
[54]
Fights should be longer, but how long is long enough? I don't want to spend 10 minutes trying to wither someones tank down while in the mean time his corpmates arrive from 8 jumps away. 
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:51:00 -
[55]
Apologies in advance for long ass post...
Watching Episode of Battlestar Galactia Season 2 today...
I watched as 3 Base Stars ambushed a Battlestar.
The Basestars instantly let fly a couple of nukes each and blasted the living S**T out of the Battlestar.
Thinking and relating back to EVE. I imagined 3 x T2 torp. ravens insta-popping a Mega...you get the idea 
However...the Battlestar 'survived' the encounter!
It concentrated fire onto 1 of the 3 BaseStars and maneuvered towards it. Whilst Frigate support protected it from enemy Frigates.
During these few minutes of battle it was fixing its FTL (jump drives) so it could 'warp' off.
Certainly got me into the mood for EVE.
However when i really thought about it, the scenario in EVE would have been more closely compared to 3 x dreads firing off volleys at a Carrier...
Anyway, my point is...Battleships drop too easily imo.
IMO there is too much of a gap between Battleships and Capital ships.
For longer fleet battles, either a middleground ship needs to emerge... a 'Battlestar' type ship.
Or, a complete reworking of combat/ship stat's/dmg's etc
As for the latest changes to some weapon types that will increase dmg/dps...well not a move in the right direction towards longer lasting battles, but much needed balancing none the less.
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:53:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I've seen fleetbattles last longer then an hour and a half.
More then once.
I've seen lag, more than once. Then I decided I wouldn't take part to more than 15 vs 15.
Ok, server got upgraded since that time 
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Wulfgard
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Shin Ra
Make damage stack. More than 4 ships shooting a target has no effect. Also increase agression timer.
That would be lame, and unrealist.
Unrealist? Actually it wouldn't be if we compare it to surface fleet battles during the WW2, not all ships would target the same primary or they wouldnt be able to know which salvo from which gun or ship was in need of accuracy adjustment.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.19 19:58:00 -
[58]
Yep.
Now welcome to space. Distance scale is far larger, sensors are far better.
Unrealistic dosn't say half of the limited fire suggestion.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Xanta
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Posted - 2006.03.19 20:08:00 -
[59]
just make the scanner not show names just ships :} total chaos great fun
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Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.03.19 20:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Xanta
just make the scanner not show names just ships :} total chaos great fun
something similar...with longer times and/or more skills needed to determine ship types etc
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