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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
37
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Posted - 2014.01.10 01:28:00 -
[841] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok everyone, here is our first round of changes since the beginning of public feedback. These are some quite large changes but we think the end result is a much stronger design.
Mobile Scan Inhibitor
Ships inside the area of a MSI's effect will have their own directional scanner and probe results disabled. We're adding a minimum distance of 75km from wormholes. We're reducing the sensor strength of the structure to 5 and increasing the signature radius to 500. Go ahead and apply as many projected ECCM to that as you want. We're increasing the build cost to ~15m isk. We're decreasing the structure's lifetime in space to 1 hour. Minimum distance to another MSI is now 100km. We're increasing the volume of the structure to 100m3.
I'll be updating the OP momentarily.
Thank you Fozzie for listening!
Disabling d-scan while people under the MSI bubble will add more variables for both attackers and defenders (in FW region) to consider when MSI is active. This should lead to more interesting gameplay. At least now defender will need a scout outside the bubble if they need intel. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2875
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 01:39:00 -
[842] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote: @Petrus Blackshell
The EHP on the MMJU is pretty good with 5k that equals to ~72 DPS to kill in 70s. Think about that Fozzie had to cover 1kiting vs 1brawling T1 Frigs. With more EHP or a shorter deploying time it would have been a 100% get out of jail free card for the brawling Frig, everytime. I can understand you hate the LML Condors and especially the dual damp Hook, me too. But you must give the kiting ship a chance to kill the brawling ship.
You have two options, deploy it pre fight if you aren't sure what kind of ship is coming and you are truesolo (Hooks can still be AB+scram+web+TD) and test the enemy before you get out. Second option, you deploy midfight and let the kiter think "i'm losing, i have to get out" and the kiter has to kill the MMJU while you gain at least extra 50-70sec to get a friend in a non obvious anti kiting ship (MWD Incursus, Kestrel, Merlin etc)
Fozzies changes to the MMJU now forces you to think about it, should i pre deploy to get a 100% out of jail for free card or not. The testing window with a pre deployed MMJU (at worst ~50s) vs 1x T1 Frig is enough time to make the gtfo decsion.
I hadn't thought that far into it, and it sounds pretty cool if it will actually work that way. Thing is, what about bigger ship fights or gang fights? In those situations, a stationary 5k EHP module will fold in literally seconds if someone decides it needs to die.
Jori McKie wrote:Congratulations Priestess Lin, you are the first person on the EVE-O forum i'm blocking. Heh. Listening to her has been educational, and has caused me to reevaluate some ways in which I stomp people.
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
115
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 02:07:00 -
[843] - Quote
In a smallscale fight like 3x kiting Cruiser vs 3x brawling Cruiser and all brawling Cruiser simultaneous deploying midfight MMJU, that means the kiting Crusier have to kill additional 15k EHP within 70s. Easy task for the kiting ships but if you think about brawling Cruiser in a gang, many of them have RR (e.g. 3x Vexxor setups etc.) and with RR it gets tricky. Scaling that up to 7vs7 with some logis+Rapier, MMJU can be your gtfo chance. I think in that sort of fights it depends a lot on player skill and quick decision making, the outcome can be both ways. Let me remind you usually not all ships are pointed (lowsec) and in most case the kiting gang gets 1 or 2 kills before the brawling gang warps off or jump back.
The really tricky part and most dangerous part is, if the brawling gang use the MMJU to get in close range. 1x Rapier/Huginn + deploying MMJU and many kiting gangs will **** their pants and gets very careful. You can expand the scenarios, it gets very difficult for kiting gangs vs brawling gangs with lots of fast tackle. Now the kiting FC has to decide whats the bigger threat the MMJU or the fast tackle, will changing the aligment help and still kill fast tackle, will the brawling FC adapt to the new alignment or not, etc. etc.
All in all 5k EHP with 1min deploy time is ok. |
Zircon Dasher
320
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 03:00:00 -
[844] - Quote
MisterAl tt1 wrote: But yeah, I have to agree that keeping a separate window out of MSI to track new signatures will be a pain for solo farmers, that they don't have now. For bigger guys like us... for years we have been keeping a dedicated scanner with probes out for all the time we are on-site.
That is pretty much the issue (as far as I can tell) that people have with the no-scan change. Med-Large groups are not effected at all by the change since they already have the manpower to bypass the drawback. It only really affects those who do not. vOv
IMO its not a huge issue since WH residents come prepared to run multiple accounts. The place where it will be more noticeable is Kspace. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2112
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 03:16:00 -
[845] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:MisterAl tt1 wrote: But yeah, I have to agree that keeping a separate window out of MSI to track new signatures will be a pain for solo farmers, that they don't have now. For bigger guys like us... for years we have been keeping a dedicated scanner with probes out for all the time we are on-site.
That is pretty much the issue (as far as I can tell) that people have with the no-scan change. Med-Large groups are not effected at all by the change since they already have the manpower to bypass the drawback. It only really affects those who do not. vOv IMO its not a huge issue since WH residents come prepared to run multiple accounts. The place where it will be more noticeable is Kspace. The MSI only blocks scan results that are able to be blocked with the MSI. Meaning cosmic signatures are still probable from within the MSI. Edit: Source https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4089954#post4089954 Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 03:18:00 -
[846] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Really don't understand the point of the Scan Inhibitor. Way too easy to scan down, doesn't last nearly long enough, and makes people inside blind? Why would anyone ever use this?
It used to be a cool idea until the status quo people got ahold of it and ruined what could have been a great defensive tool for the vast majority of EVE players that would have otherwise emboldened them to take risks outside of high sec.
CCP Fozzie wrote:.these structures are intentionally provocative so even after this round of adjustments we expect them to be very disruptive to the status quo in a valuable and exciting way.
So much for that. They seem perfectly happy with it now that it is near useless. |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
161
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 04:54:00 -
[847] - Quote
Here's my concern with the Mobile Scan Inhibitor (MSI). Won't it require roamers to bring a prober and an interdiction nullified ship wherever they go to (1) find and then (2) investigate every MSI? How does it help to force solo'ers and small gangers to bring these extra ships along wherever they go? I don't see how the tweaks you just announced help with the fundamental issue. How about making the MSI's into beacons to at least eliminate the need to bring probes wherever you go?
And here's the fundamental issue. The biggest obstacle to fun small-scale fights in Eve is ganks made possible by hiding a fleet's true strength. There are already a lot of ways to spring a trap on someone looking for a gf, do we really need another one? It seems the MSI will help people avoid fights entirely or help them set up ganks, neither of which are good for "fun" PVP.
Put yet another way, what are the envisioned applications of the MSI? To help PVE'ers avoid getting ganked? To help gankers hide until they can safely drop on someone? Or is there potentially a use that will help set up fairer fights? |
Zircon Dasher
320
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:06:00 -
[848] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote: fairer fights
I have never heard the term before. Is that a fight between blonde people or women? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
86
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:50:00 -
[849] - Quote
This was the right move. Now the MSI has a use in hiding a fleet being formed as opposed to yet another obstacle for a risk adverse PvE'er to hid behind. Not that they all cloak/warp when anyone enters local anyways. And the MMJD unit will be cost/time/sized balanced so that kiting based PvP still has a place.
Y'all Hisec/Bears need to check your privilege. Almost every change from beta has made it easier for you to do anything with less risk. |
nevermore Homing
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 06:16:00 -
[850] - Quote
That means i can active my MJD a few seconds later then active the MJU,and jump out 200KM in a second just like 2 stage E wihile using Renekton in LOL
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
428
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 06:21:00 -
[851] - Quote
Quote:The EHP on the MMJU is pretty good with 5k that equals to ~72 DPS to kill in 70s. Think about that Fozzie had to cover 1kiting vs 1brawling T1 Frigs...But you must give the kiting ship a chance to kill the brawling ship.
This is already a match up heavily skewed in favor of kiting frigates unless the brawling frigate utterly dictates the terms of the engagement or is specifically fit to kill nano-frigates. The kiting frigate already has over a minute to kill its target. That's an eternity in a frigate duel, even for low dps fits, and if you can't manage to down your fleeing target in 72+ seconds, that seems a reasonably tradeoff for a ship that prioritizes speed and ability to disengage over firepower.
In the meantime, by balancing it around Condor v. Incursus fights, you're making the module utterly worthless for anything featuring more firepower. |
RumpenII
81
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:02:00 -
[852] - Quote
Quote:The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down
If this structure can be found, what's the point? And if you can not find it will imbalance (as it is now AFK Cloaking) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1055
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:13:00 -
[853] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: I hadn't thought that far into it, and it sounds pretty cool if it will actually work that way. Thing is, what about bigger ship fights or gang fights? In those situations, a stationary 5k EHP module will fold in literally seconds if someone decides it needs to die.
That is the problem of any solution of one siz fits all. You cannto have all sizes happy. Only solution is to make deployabled for frig size, cruiser size and battleship size separate.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1055
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:14:00 -
[854] - Quote
RumpenII wrote:Quote:The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down If this structure can be found, what's the point? And if you can not find it will imbalance (as it is now AFK Cloaking)
Deception, traps, uncertainty. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1019
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:35:00 -
[855] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:And here's the fundamental issue. The biggest obstacle to fun small-scale fights in Eve is ganks made possible by hiding a fleet's true strength. There are already a lot of ways to spring a trap on someone looking for a gf, do we really need another one? It seems the MSI will help people avoid fights entirely or help them set up ganks, neither of which are good for "fun" PVP.
Put yet another way, what are the envisioned applications of the MSI? To help PVE'ers avoid getting ganked? To help gankers hide until they can safely drop on someone? Or is there potentially a use that will help set up fairer fights?
Yes, this is the main concern with this MSI thing. And also give even more safety to PVE in low and null (partially rebalanced in the last iteration).
Basically are support tools for farmers and campers gameplay.
However they already coded it and have to release, so we can only hope to control damage.
|
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
115
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 10:12:00 -
[856] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:The EHP on the MMJU is pretty good with 5k that equals to ~72 DPS to kill in 70s. Think about that Fozzie had to cover 1kiting vs 1brawling T1 Frigs...But you must give the kiting ship a chance to kill the brawling ship. This is already a match up heavily skewed in favor of kiting frigates unless the brawling frigate utterly dictates the terms of the engagement or is specifically fit to kill nano-frigates. The kiting frigate already has over a minute to kill its target. That's an eternity in a frigate duel, even for low dps fits, and if you can't manage to down your fleeing target in 72+ seconds, that seems a reasonably tradeoff for a ship that prioritizes speed and ability to disengage over firepower. In the meantime, by balancing it around Condor v. Incursus fights, you're making the module utterly worthless for anything featuring more firepower.
I'm not sure i get it? Did you read this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4092615#post4092615 ?
There are many scenarios for small and medscale fights in which the MMJU still can be used but not abused aka 100% get out of jail free card. Do not forget that every time MMJUs are dropped it is additional EHP the other gang has to kill or deal with the enemy gtfo or deal with tanky ships got in too close. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1055
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 10:14:00 -
[857] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:ROXGenghis wrote:And here's the fundamental issue. The biggest obstacle to fun small-scale fights in Eve is ganks made possible by hiding a fleet's true strength. There are already a lot of ways to spring a trap on someone looking for a gf, do we really need another one? It seems the MSI will help people avoid fights entirely or help them set up ganks, neither of which are good for "fun" PVP.
Put yet another way, what are the envisioned applications of the MSI? To help PVE'ers avoid getting ganked? To help gankers hide until they can safely drop on someone? Or is there potentially a use that will help set up fairer fights? Yes, this is the main concern with this MSI thing. And also give even more safety to PVE in low and null (partially rebalanced in the last iteration). Basically are support tools for farmers and campers gameplay. However they already coded it and have to release, so we can only hope to control damage.
That will be solved only when local is revamped. Because the opposite is still true. Gang A might have a trap ready, but gang B could ALSO be muc h larger and could be a gang C around even? The things will balance only when the " better engagign with limited losses possibility than not engaging at all or risking being counter escalated by much superior force" is achievable.
Its ahard balnce, but i think might be possible.. but only after super local intel is gone. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1260
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:01:00 -
[858] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok everyone, here is our first round of changes since the beginning of public feedback. These are some quite large changes but we think the end result is a much stronger design.
Mobile Micro Jump Unit
We're cutting the EHP of the structure by 80%, to 5000hp. We're increasing the time that the MJU takes to activate to 1 minute. We're increasing the range at which the MJU can be used to 5000m. We're increasing the minimum range from other MJU structures to 10km. We're disabling the ability to jump while cloaked.
Mobile Scan Inhibitor
Ships inside the area of a MSI's effect will have their own directional scanner and probe results disabled. We're adding a minimum distance of 75km from wormholes. We're reducing the sensor strength of the structure to 5 and increasing the signature radius to 500. Go ahead and apply as many projected ECCM to that as you want. We're increasing the build cost to ~15m isk. We're decreasing the structure's lifetime in space to 1 hour. Minimum distance to another MSI is now 100km. We're increasing the volume of the structure to 100m3.
I'll be updating the OP momentarily.
Most of those changes go in the complete opposite direction to what i would expect. Sometimes it feels like CCP just make things up as they go, without giving it the proper thought needed.
* 1 minute activation time for a structure that will die in less than 10 seconds. * Restricting the placement of a structure in a region that has no police. * Arbitrary and illogical rules that make these units impractical for 50% of situations in eve.
I'm not sure whether EVE development is struggling because it's and old game filled with bad, out dated mechanics or misguided/unimaginative staff. You all seem to have good intentions/ideas but totally mess up the implementation.
Look at the mobile depot; A great new device that allow solo players to live a semi-nonodic lifestyle and finally allows people to swap sub-systems in wormhole space... But for some crazy reason, someone at CCP decided people in the same corp as the deployer shouldn't be able to refit from it while at the same time, they place an arbitrary limit on how close one structure can be placed to the other.
Then there is the mobile cyno jamer which i've yet to see in game, probably because of the nonsensical decision to make them unusable on gates, where most fights happen. +1 |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1056
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:35:00 -
[859] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok everyone, here is our first round of changes since the beginning of public feedback. These are some quite large changes but we think the end result is a much stronger design.
Mobile Micro Jump Unit
We're cutting the EHP of the structure by 80%, to 5000hp. We're increasing the time that the MJU takes to activate to 1 minute. We're increasing the range at which the MJU can be used to 5000m. We're increasing the minimum range from other MJU structures to 10km. We're disabling the ability to jump while cloaked.
Mobile Scan Inhibitor
Ships inside the area of a MSI's effect will have their own directional scanner and probe results disabled. We're adding a minimum distance of 75km from wormholes. We're reducing the sensor strength of the structure to 5 and increasing the signature radius to 500. Go ahead and apply as many projected ECCM to that as you want. We're increasing the build cost to ~15m isk. We're decreasing the structure's lifetime in space to 1 hour. Minimum distance to another MSI is now 100km. We're increasing the volume of the structure to 100m3.
I'll be updating the OP momentarily. Most of those changes go in the complete opposite direction to what i would expect. Sometimes it feels like CCP just make things up as they go, without giving it the proper thought needed. * 1 minute activation time for a structure that will die in less than 10 seconds. * Restricting the placement of a structure in a region that has no police. * Arbitrary and illogical rules that make these units impractical for most situations in eve. I'm not sure whether EVE development is struggling because it's and old game filled with bad, out dated mechanics or misguided/unimaginative staff. You all seem to have good intentions/ideas but totally mess up the implementation. Look at the mobile depot; A great new device that allow solo players to live a semi-nonodic lifestyle and finally allows people to swap sub-systems in wormhole space... But for some crazy reason, someone at CCP decided people in the same corp as the deployer shouldn't be able to refit from it while at the same time, they place an arbitrary limit on how close one structure can be placed to the other. Then there is the mobile cyno jamer which i've yet to see in game, probably because of the nonsensical decision to make them unusable on gates, where most fights happen.
All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1261
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:46:00 -
[860] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk...
What do mobile structures have to do with small ships? i didn't see that explanation but i'd imagine the logic is flawed.
Why not just make it so you can't hid cosmic anomalys? When hunting someone at a site in wormhole space, you can currently warp to sites and find a target through a process of elimination. The ability to hide sigs forces you to use combat probes, revealing your presence.
Restricting d-scan and probe scan from inside the inhibitor field, is acceptable. +1 |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1056
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:53:00 -
[861] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk...
What do mobile structures have to do with small ships? i didn't see that explanation but i'd imagine the logic is flawed. Why not just make it so you can't hid cosmic anomalys? When hunting someone at a site in wormhole space, you can currently warp to sites and find a target through a process of elimination. The ability to hide sigs forces you to use combat probes, revealing your presence. Restricting d-scan and probe scan from inside the inhibitor field, is acceptable.
Not flawed at all. Previous the jump drive had 45k ehp and took 20 sec to deploy. How a ship that cannot do 780 dps stop other ship from ALWAYS escaping using this damm device? Only option is everyone forget forever disruptors and decide that living inside web range is the only way to have PVP. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1262
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 13:00:00 -
[862] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk...
What do mobile structures have to do with small ships? i didn't see that explanation but i'd imagine the logic is flawed. Why not just make it so you can't hid cosmic anomalys? When hunting someone at a site in wormhole space, you can currently warp to sites and find a target through a process of elimination. The ability to hide sigs forces you to use combat probes, revealing your presence. Restricting d-scan and probe scan from inside the inhibitor field, is acceptable. Not flawed at all. Previous the jump drive had 45k ehp and took 20 sec to deploy. How a ship that cannot do 780 dps stop other ship from ALWAYS escaping using this damm device? Only option is everyone forget forever disruptors and decide that living inside web range is the only way to have PVP.
So in this scenario you describe you are solo in a frigate without a scram fitted and you land on grid with something that fears you so much that he launches a mobile jump unit and escapes after 12 seconds.
A. If you are solo, you wouldn't be able to kill the structure anyway and if you attempted, you would have to enter that dreaded web range you fear so much.
B. if you have a friend with you, one guy should have a scram and one a instructor
As i said, flawed logic. +1 |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
115
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 13:46:00 -
[863] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk...
What do mobile structures have to do with small ships? i didn't see that explanation but i'd imagine the logic is flawed. Why not just make it so you can't hid cosmic anomalys? When hunting someone at a site in wormhole space, you can currently warp to sites and find a target through a process of elimination. The ability to hide sigs forces you to use combat probes, revealing your presence. Restricting d-scan and probe scan from inside the inhibitor field, is acceptable. Not flawed at all. Previous the jump drive had 45k ehp and took 20 sec to deploy. How a ship that cannot do 780 dps stop other ship from ALWAYS escaping using this damm device? Only option is everyone forget forever disruptors and decide that living inside web range is the only way to have PVP. So in this scenario you describe you are solo in a frigate without a scram fitted and you land on grid with something that fears you so much that he launches a mobile jump unit and escapes after 12 seconds. A. If you are solo, you wouldn't be able to kill the structure anyway and if you attempted, you would have to enter that dreaded web range you fear so much. B. if you have a friend with you, one guy should have a scram and one a instructor As i said, flawed logic.
Sorry to say but either you are dumb or your reading comprehension lacks lvl 1, borrowed from my evil twin Grath Jori. The reason why the MMJU with 45k EHP and 20s to deploy were a bad idea were explained a lot of times in this topic, it would be in short words a 100% get out of jail free card for any combo with less than 780 DPS thus making long points in this kind of combat useless.
Got it?
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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
316
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 14:20:00 -
[864] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Markku Laaksonen wrote:Seems a bit heavy handed of a nerf. Considering that the side effects if unchecked were way heavier. I think its easier for them to buff them later if they are nto used enough than to face huge side effects at start if they do not nerf them.
Basically nerf now, buff later if needed. Fair enough. One of the biggest things that stood out to me was the the MMJU will have 5k EHP and a 1min activation time. If I'm reading that right, it means I hit the jump button on the MMJU and a minute later I micro-jump 100km away.
Seems like an awfully long time. Hopefully I'm reading it wrong. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2112
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 14:27:00 -
[865] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Markku Laaksonen wrote:Seems a bit heavy handed of a nerf. Considering that the side effects if unchecked were way heavier. I think its easier for them to buff them later if they are nto used enough than to face huge side effects at start if they do not nerf them. Basically nerf now, buff later if needed. Fair enough. One of the biggest things that stood out to me was the the MMJU will have 5k EHP and a 1min activation time. If I'm reading that right, it means I hit the jump button on the MMJU and a minute later I micro-jump 100km away. Seems like an awfully long time. Hopefully I'm reading it wrong. You are, it is 1 min anchor time, 12 seconds to jump Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
50
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 14:54:00 -
[866] - Quote
Scouts in inties who like to circle enemy fleets on grid are going to have to start being very careful about these.
Other inties can wait on the jump unit, activate it, overheat mwd, and start burning toward the scout who's hanging around at the edge of the grid. They will begin to close the gap on the target, and after 12 seconds receive a nice little jump of 100km to close the gap even further. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1263
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 15:01:00 -
[867] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote: Sorry to say but either you are dumb or your reading comprehension lacks lvl 1, borrowed from my evil twin Grath Jori. The reason why the MMJU with 45k EHP and 20s to deploy were a bad idea were explained a lot of times in this topic, it would be in short words a 100% get out of jail free card for any combo with less than 780 DPS thus making long points in this kind of combat useless.
Got it?
Did you read what i said?
The structure is now useless for in PVP because it can be destroyed by most ships before it is even activated and if you can't see that, you're an idiot.
In what situation would yo use this structure?
+1 |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1056
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 15:02:00 -
[868] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: All reasons have been explained. Too much EHP and it would make small ships irrelevant.
Need some restrictions to avoid abuse of things like hiding wormhole exits
Restrictign the D-Scan is on the baseline that no specially powerful capability shoudl come without a cost or risk...
What do mobile structures have to do with small ships? i didn't see that explanation but i'd imagine the logic is flawed. Why not just make it so you can't hid cosmic anomalys? When hunting someone at a site in wormhole space, you can currently warp to sites and find a target through a process of elimination. The ability to hide sigs forces you to use combat probes, revealing your presence. Restricting d-scan and probe scan from inside the inhibitor field, is acceptable. Not flawed at all. Previous the jump drive had 45k ehp and took 20 sec to deploy. How a ship that cannot do 780 dps stop other ship from ALWAYS escaping using this damm device? Only option is everyone forget forever disruptors and decide that living inside web range is the only way to have PVP. So in this scenario you describe you are solo in a frigate without a scram fitted and you land on grid with something that fears you so much that he launches a mobile jump unit and escapes after 12 seconds. A. If you are solo, you wouldn't be able to kill the structure anyway and if you attempted, you would have to enter that dreaded web range you fear so much. B. if you have a friend with you, one guy should have a scram and one a instructor As i said, flawed logic.
nto flawed at all. Just because you do nto fly solo, that does not justify. Also you clearly are not thinkign trouhg. The target does not need to have the web. But you cannot expect all frigates to have scrams and ALWAYS expect to engage everythign in short range.
If you cannto understand taht , a so obvious and strong situation that Devs and CSM seens very fast to be a problem, then there not much to discuss.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1056
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:04:00 -
[869] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Jori McKie wrote: Sorry to say but either you are dumb or your reading comprehension lacks lvl 1, borrowed from my evil twin Grath Jori. The reason why the MMJU with 45k EHP and 20s to deploy were a bad idea were explained a lot of times in this topic, it would be in short words a 100% get out of jail free card for any combo with less than 780 DPS thus making long points in this kind of combat useless.
Got it?
Did you read what i said? The structure is now useless for in PVP because it can be destroyed by most ships before it is even activated and if you can't see that, you're an idiot. In what situation would yo use this structure?
Preparign the battlefield for a trap so you do not need to expose your forced at the intended choke point before the enemy arrives, therefore increasing your safety .
If you are unable to use strategy, do not blame others on it. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1263
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:12:00 -
[870] - Quote
You guys aren't making any sense but tbh, i don't care anymore. The Jump unit will hardly ever be used in PVP but if you disagree, then please describe a scenario in which you could deploy these things in battle without them being instantly reinforced. +1 |
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