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Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been running lvl 4's in an abaddon with my alt in a drake, providing remote armor reps when needed. The only time the drakes reps have actually saved me is when i aggro the entire pocket. This setup is cheap and very forgiving (ie, i don't really worry about avoiding the triggers)
Now, i am going to be sending my caldari pilot to another region of space, for corp ops, and will have my amarr pilot available to mission run.
i have 23mil SP, almost entirely in combat and fitting skills. I can pilot up to Command Ships and can fit all T2 mids/lows and up to T2 med lasers. I can field T2 min/gallente drones but only T1 sentries (i'm late to the party on the sentry training)
I realize no single ship will be able to perform as well as my 2 T1s but i would like to hear some options for me to be able to run lvl4s without the need to constantly bounce in and out of the pocket. |
Sid Crash
53
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Transient Drifter wrote:I have been running lvl 4's in an abaddon with my alt in a drake, providing remote armor reps when needed. The only time the drakes reps have actually saved me is when i aggro the entire pocket. This setup is cheap and very forgiving (ie, i don't really worry about avoiding the triggers)
Now, i am going to be sending my caldari pilot to another region of space, for corp ops, and will have my amarr pilot available to mission run.
i have 23mil SP, almost entirely in combat and fitting skills. I can pilot up to Command Ships and can fit all T2 mids/lows and up to T2 med lasers. I can field T2 min/gallente drones but only T1 sentries (i'm late to the party on the sentry training)
I realize no single ship will be able to perform as well as my 2 T1s but i would like to hear some options for me to be able to run lvl4s without the need to constantly bounce in and out of the pocket.
Why would you have to bounce in and out, just fit a cap booster and you're good. abaddon is awesome, right up to the point when you can use a Paladin.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1170
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you can't make the abaddon work solo then use an apoc or navy apoc until you get better skills. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 19:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Apoc NI or Paladin. And get those T2 Mega Pulse. |
Zenith Gravit
LionGate Enterprises Care Factor
38
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 20:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Paladin! |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 21:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
I can't fly a paladin just yet but i have the skills to fit T2 everything except lasers, on the battleship.
I have never actually tried to solo a lvl4 in my abaddon, so i am simply going off what i've seen when i ran my drake and abaddon, together. It seems like the additional target for the pirates, definitely helped distribute damage away from my abaddon.
Right now the abaddon is active tanked with hardeners and a single large rep. A flight of T2 warriors and T2 Hammerheads. Tracking computer with range/tracking scripts, web and large cap booster.
Would i be better off fitting for buffer and passive resists, with sentries? Just trying to get an idea of what to try before my caldari pilot makes the official move. |
Sid Crash
53
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 21:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Something like this would work fine:
[Abaddon, LVL 4 Sansha Named] Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
A similarly fit Napoc will have slightly less tank, slightly more cap life, more tracking but less dps. However, this abaddon is a ***** to fit (and requires implants) the Napoc does not and fits a lot easier.
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, lvl 4 - sansha] Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
You could swap the rigs for more tank vs cap issues. |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 22:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
that is awesome, thank you. I will plug these into EFT and see where i'm at on the abaddon fit... i've been wanting a navy apoc for awhile now and its not like i'm doing anything with the money i'm making, currently...
If anybody else has any other suggestions, i am very appreciative.
thanks again. |
Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos
66
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 22:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead. |
Sid Crash
53
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 23:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead.
That is outdated info, Apoc (and Napoc as well) lost its cap bonus for a tracking bonus. It does get a higher recharge than the Abaddon but that's not the same thing really.
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Satori Sartori
X-Type Prospectors
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 23:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you have buck to spare and think you don't mind using a sentry ship, the Armageddon Navy Issue is an okay choice. It doesn't have fantastic cap, but it can pull 1000 DPS with some pimp/skills, even without t2 sentries (use Imperial Navy Curators or Federation Navy Gardes).
Pulse-fit takes a lot of micromanagement if you don't have T2 Large guns (having to use different ammo for different ranges instead of just rolling with INMFQ>Scorch L, along with having to take care of your single sentry stack), so that's a downside. |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 00:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead.
i've never actually tried to run one, without my drake as support. The drake was really only there to provide a little more dps and remote reps, if needed. It was only a med remote repper |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 01:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:Something like this would work fine:
[Abaddon, LVL 4 Sansha Named] Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
A similarly fit Napoc will have slightly less tank, slightly more cap life, more tracking but less dps. However, this abaddon is a ***** to fit (and requires implants) the Napoc does not and fits a lot easier.
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, lvl 4 - sansha] Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
You could swap the rigs for more tank vs cap issues.
working on making this abaddon work...
ok so i can fit it with 1.7k grid and 47cpu to spare... that is without faction mods, but i will swap those in as i get this mission runner up and running |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2340
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 03:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you have an alt, logi support can compensate for crappy tank and cap skills. It's better if you use a BS with a utility high slot for this though, and I don't think Amarr BSes have those. Oh god. |
Sid Crash
53
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 07:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Transient Drifter wrote:working on making this abaddon work...
ok so i can fit it with 1.7k grid and 47cpu to spare... that is without faction mods, but i will swap those in as i get this mission runner up and running
Without trying to discourage or discredit you, the way you have been playing so far seems to be a rather mellow, easy going "lets not put in too much effort" kind of way. Running an Abaddon with that fit (or that Napoc for that matter albeit slightly less... crazy) will be quite different. Cap life on the guns alone is measured in single digit minutes, you can not slack, go afk or get distracted and you WILL have to learn (real quick) to optimise your game play. It'll be a bit of a wake up call :)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
206
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 12:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:Degnar Oskold wrote:I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead. That is outdated info, Apoc (and Napoc as well) lost its cap bonus for a tracking bonus. It does get a higher recharge than the Abaddon but that's not the same thing really. i think they rolled that bonus into the hull,it has waaaaay better cap than the baddon. Inside amarr space you really cant go wrong with anything even remotely apocalypse related. the navy issue is surprisingly good and well worth the isk. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Sid Crash
55
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 12:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sid Crash wrote:Degnar Oskold wrote:I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead. That is outdated info, Apoc (and Napoc as well) lost its cap bonus for a tracking bonus. It does get a higher recharge than the Abaddon but that's not the same thing really. i think they rolled that bonus into the hull,it has waaaaay better cap than the baddon. Inside amarr space you really cant go wrong with anything even remotely apocalypse related. the navy issue is surprisingly good and well worth the isk.
DPS is a lot lower, which is kinda the whole point of a mission ship.
|
Odithia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 13:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sid Crash wrote:Degnar Oskold wrote:I think that there's something wrong with your current Abaddon fit if you can't solo virtually all level 4s without having to warp out. Can you post your fit?
If your cap skills are weak, you may need to be in an apocalypse instead. That is outdated info, Apoc (and Napoc as well) lost its cap bonus for a tracking bonus. It does get a higher recharge than the Abaddon but that's not the same thing really. i think they rolled that bonus into the hull,it has waaaaay better cap than the baddon. Inside amarr space you really cant go wrong with anything even remotely apocalypse related. the navy issue is surprisingly good and well worth the isk. DPS is a lot lower, which is kinda the whole point of a mission ship.
But damage projection and applications are a lot better, you can also use close range ammo and offset the dps difference. |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 13:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:Transient Drifter wrote:working on making this abaddon work...
ok so i can fit it with 1.7k grid and 47cpu to spare... that is without faction mods, but i will swap those in as i get this mission runner up and running Without trying to discourage or discredit you, the way you have been playing so far seems to be a rather mellow, easy going "lets not put in too much effort" kind of way. Running an Abaddon with that fit (or that Napoc for that matter albeit slightly less... crazy) will be quite different. Cap life on the guns alone is measured in single digit minutes, you can not slack, go afk or get distracted and you WILL have to learn (real quick) to optimise your game play. It'll be a bit of a wake up call :)
i've never been one to afk anything in this game, i've also never run a ship that didn't need micromanaging because of crappy cap skills. I think i'll be ok with this setup, and if not, thats part of the learning experience right?
i appreciate the help guys, i have several options available to me and i like that... hopefully once i am happy with my amarr training, i'll be able to train into some of the other races hulls and get myself a bit more variety. |
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
103
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 14:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
I would advise sentry+cruise missile Armageddon - no tracking disruption problems whatsoever, which is what sansha is known for. 800-900 dps with good skills.
Until you get into Paladin of course. Then you will never want to look back. |
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Sid Crash
55
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 14:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Transient Drifter wrote:Sid Crash wrote:Transient Drifter wrote:working on making this abaddon work...
ok so i can fit it with 1.7k grid and 47cpu to spare... that is without faction mods, but i will swap those in as i get this mission runner up and running Without trying to discourage or discredit you, the way you have been playing so far seems to be a rather mellow, easy going "lets not put in too much effort" kind of way. Running an Abaddon with that fit (or that Napoc for that matter albeit slightly less... crazy) will be quite different. Cap life on the guns alone is measured in single digit minutes, you can not slack, go afk or get distracted and you WILL have to learn (real quick) to optimise your game play. It'll be a bit of a wake up call :) i've never been one to afk anything in this game, i've also never run a ship that didn't need micromanaging because of crappy cap skills. I think i'll be ok with this setup, and if not, thats part of the learning experience right? i appreciate the help guys, i have several options available to me and i like that... hopefully once i am happy with my amarr training, i'll be able to train into some of the other races hulls and get myself a bit more variety.
Just saying :)
Odithia wrote:But damage projection and applications are a lot better, you can also use close range ammo and offset the dps difference.
Here's the graph for two identically fit ships (meta 4 beams, same heat sinks etc, no drones) for the Abaddon and Napoc, Abaddon in red Napoc in green, shooting a base speed orbiting BC..
When shooting at a base speed Maller in same situation the Napoc comes just slightly ahead. So the increase in dps from the Abaddon vs the increased tracking/range from the Napoc outperforms at BS levels (the range bonus never really results in more dps because of its lower base damage), and generally is equal or out performs against BC, against cruiser the Napoc slightly wins.
Overall the Abaddon performs better. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
206
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 15:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
true, however the npoc is significantly easier to fit and fly for a low sp pilot , not to mention it looks a dame sight better. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 17:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:
Just saying :)
no worries, i appreciate the feedback :)
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Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 15:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
i got to run the fitted abaddon, last night and its pretty beastly. I'm pretty sure the last abaddon i had, was running random rigs and a **** fit.
Now, when that armor rep hits, its a nice chunk of repaired HP. I can't remember the mission name but it was one of the 5hr security missions. I didn't have to bounce the pocket but i did have to manage how much aggro i had, that was actually in range to do damage. Once about 20% of the pocket was cleared, they were not able to break my tank.
Next i'm going to try out the Navy Apoc, i've never owned one but i keep hearing they are pretty nice ships, so why not.
What are everyone's thoughts on the navy armageddon as a lvl 4 mission runner? |
Sid Crash
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 16:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
You lose laser performance in favour of sentry performance so it can help you do alternative damage types and be, slightly, less susceptible to TDs. On the other hand you're now forced to actively apply two different weapon systems with 2 different control methods because if you don't you're seriously down on performance. Also, the second you need to use lights to take out spider drones is the second you lose your sentry dps.
So it's more effort and best case scenario you perform slightly better but generally it'll be sub par. Needless to say I'm not impressed by it. If you want sentries try the normal Geddon, it's actually not bad. If you don't have good sentry skills then don't bother with either.
The Napoc will be the same as the abaddon with less overall performance but slightly better cap usage, it'd be a step backwards.
Oh and congrats on making it work :) |
Transient Drifter
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 16:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sid Crash wrote:You lose laser performance in favour of sentry performance so it can help you do alternative damage types and be, slightly, less susceptible to TDs. On the other hand you're now forced to actively apply two different weapon systems with 2 different control methods because if you don't you're seriously down on performance. Also, the second you need to use lights to take out spider drones is the second you lose your sentry dps.
So it's more effort and best case scenario you perform slightly better but generally it'll be sub par. Needless to say I'm not impressed by it. If you want sentries try the normal Geddon, it's actually not bad. If you don't have good sentry skills then don't bother with either.
The Napoc will be the same as the abaddon with less overall performance but slightly better cap usage, it'd be a step backwards.
Oh and congrats on making it work :)
gotcha, i appreciate you walking me through this. I gotta say, running the abaddon solo was a damn sight more interesting than when i was dual boxing these missions |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1191
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 16:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
I would agree wtih sid's assessment. If you don't have t2 sentries or energy turrets, or at least t2 in one with decent skills in the other, I wouldn't fly it. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
sabiens
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 02:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
I like apocs better than abaddons because of the tracking and range bonuses from the Amarr battleship skill. Currently I fly a navy apoc. With the abaddon the shorter laser range seemed to decrease dps at longer ranges with pulse lasers. You will probably also need to learn to fly a second type of ship since lasers are em/therm damage only making some enemies hard to kill. My amarr character also flies a raven for angel missions and kin/therm missions that aren't mercenaries or eom. Get t2 lasers asap. You can test ships on the test server if you have the skills. Ships, rigs and modules etc.. are like 100 isk on the test server so you can try stuff and scrap stuff to see what you like. Eve fitting tool is also useful for fitting. You should also note that there's a difference between dps and applied dps. Applied dps is what you actually hit the ship with. Eve fitting tool has a dps graph where you can estimate your applied dps to different ships under different conditions.
Navy Apoc loadout
Large Armor Repair II x 2 ( hardly ever use the 2nd rep) Energized adaptive nano membrane II 2 mission specific hardeners 3 heat sinks II
3 cap recharger II tracking computer II (with long range and tracking speed scripts)
8 mega pulse II
3 large capacitor control circuit I rigs
You can remove a cap recharger II and add in a large micro jump drive to snipe and move around faster. A second tracking computer would be ok to get more range on your lasers. Changing a cap recharger II for a heavy cap booster II and using cap booster 800 charges would also work then you could change the rigs and stuff. You could also carry around a mobile depot and refit in space as needed. |
sabiens
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 02:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
sabiens wrote:I like apocs better than abaddons because of the tracking and range bonuses from the Amarr battleship skill. Currently I fly a navy apoc. With the abaddon the shorter laser range seemed to decrease dps at longer ranges with pulse lasers. You will probably also need to learn to fly a second type of ship since lasers are em/therm damage only making some enemies hard to kill. My amarr character also flies a raven for angel missions and kin/therm missions that aren't mercenaries or eom. Get t2 lasers asap. You can test ships on the test server if you have the skills. Ships, rigs and modules etc.. are like 100 isk on the test server so you can try stuff and scrap stuff to see what you like. Eve fitting tool is also useful for fitting. You should also note that there's a difference between dps and applied dps. Applied dps is what you actually hit the ship with. Eve fitting tool has a dps graph where you can estimate your applied dps to different ships under different conditions.
Navy Apoc loadout
Large Armor Repair II x 2 ( hardly ever use the 2nd rep) Energized adaptive nano membrane II 2 mission specific hardeners 3 heat sinks II
3 cap recharger II tracking computer II (with long range and tracking speed scripts)
8 mega pulse II
3 large capacitor control circuit I rigs
You can remove a cap recharger II and add in a large micro jump drive to snipe and move around faster. Npc ewar seems to have a range on it so micro jump driving and sniping might eliminate some ewar bothers. Haven't tried it though since most stuff gets blown up before it bothers me. A second tracking computer would be ok to get more range on your lasers. Changing a cap recharger II for a heavy cap booster II and using cap booster 800 charges would also work then you could change the rigs and stuff. You could also carry around a mobile depot and refit in space as needed.
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QproQ
Monolithic Juggernaut
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 12:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
I personally use a Navy Armageddon with T2 pulse and rat-specific T2 sentries to help counter Amarr's mediocre damage type. Generates nearly 1100 dps @ 58km.
Large Armor Repairer II Corpum C-Type EANM Reactive Hardener DCU II Navy Heat Sink x3 DDA II
A-Type MWD TC II x2 Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II DLA
Semiconductor Memory Cell I Cap Control Circuit x2
1 Flight of T2 Light, Medium, and Sentry Drones |
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