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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Josh Minar
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
1
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:24:00 -
[1351] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Josh Minar wrote:And then you separate "trolling" from "real personal attacks" where suits you best. Oh well, I guess The Mittani during the fanfest incident was trolling too, the epitome of goonesque. Uh, no, that was an attack, for which Mittani has both apologised and taken his punishment. He apologized to the public because he had to. But he's a hero among Goons because that's what they like and do.
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Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
55
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:24:00 -
[1352] - Quote
Josh Minar wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:It's just a game, we have fun trolling each other (well, trolling you mostly, as you are really bad at this), but the moment real personal attacks come, things get ugly. And then you separate "trolling" from "real personal attacks" where suits you best. Oh well, I guess The Mittani during the fanfest incident was trolling too, the epitome of goonesque.
No that was not trolling. That was being a drunken ass, pure and simple. If Gevlon really thinks was he writes (and it seems so), then something is really wrong with his head. I mean - racism against a virtual group of people? That's just sad, man. |
Josh Minar
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
1
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:27:00 -
[1353] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:Josh Minar wrote:And then you separate "trolling" from "real personal attacks" where suits you best. Oh well, I guess The Mittani during the fanfest incident was trolling too, the epitome of goonesque. No that was not trolling. Ask Goons, I'm pretty sure for them that was.
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Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
55
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:32:00 -
[1354] - Quote
Josh Minar wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:Josh Minar wrote:And then you separate "trolling" from "real personal attacks" where suits you best. Oh well, I guess The Mittani during the fanfest incident was trolling too, the epitome of goonesque. No that was not trolling. Ask Goons, I'm pretty sure for them that was.
So you take your assumption as an excuse for Gevlon to act like an idiot? |
Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:33:00 -
[1355] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:Josh Minar wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:It's just a game, we have fun trolling each other (well, trolling you mostly, as you are really bad at this), but the moment real personal attacks come, things get ugly. And then you separate "trolling" from "real personal attacks" where suits you best. Oh well, I guess The Mittani during the fanfest incident was trolling too, the epitome of goonesque. No that was not trolling. That was being a drunken ass, pure and simple. If Gevlon really thinks was he writes (and it seems so), then something is really wrong with his head. I mean - racism against a virtual group of people? That's just sad, man.
It's certainly headline material. "Gevlon Goblin, outspoken virtual racist". Just not sure it's the headline he was looking for. |
Admiral Grr
Bee Exterminators Bee Squashers
6
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:33:00 -
[1356] - Quote
Gevlon may not see it yet, but he has started a movement that he cannot control. While I certainly welcome his isk and players, he cannot pull the strings in this alliance, so he calls anything not his a scam.
Sad.
Sov will be addressed once this movement has thousands of players, not 400 between 2 alliances.
Come join Bee Squashers and get in on this historical movement on the ground floor!
Goons, hedge your bets and app in today.
Been scammed by Goons, join and extract your revenge!
Just wanna shoot stuff? Join and enjoy the free wardec. |
Josh Minar
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
1
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:37:00 -
[1357] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:So you take your assumption as an excuse for Gevlon to act like an idiot? Why? I'm not speaking for Gevlon, I'm not his secretary. I was only following up on previous posts, on the topic of Goons "trolling" (hurting people for the lulz) versus "real attacks" (hurting people for the lulz).
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Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
55
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:43:00 -
[1358] - Quote
Josh Minar wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:So you take your assumption as an excuse for Gevlon to act like an idiot? Why? I'm not speaking for Gevlon, I'm not his secretary. I was only following up on previous posts, on the topic of Goons "trolling" (hurting people for the lulz) versus "real attacks" (hurting people for the lulz).
So don't justify him, then. |
Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:43:00 -
[1359] - Quote
The major problem is Gevlon keeps moving his goalpost. If his pets manage to ref something, "Goons are too scared to defend!" if anyone comes out to defend, "look at all the isk they could have made ratting!", if they rat "Look at how bad they are, they're ratting".
This is what the losers of a battle always do to pat themselves on the back to reassure themselves that they're not wasting their own time. It's easy to be "winning" when you define your victory condition the day after the battle.
Think it over kids. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:46:00 -
[1360] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: What we are talking about here though is this thread. Can you honstely not see the difference between "your in game strategy suck and you are terrible at PVP" and "I don't classify you as a member of the human race due to the in game group you choose to associate with"?
You see, this is the problem. I don't think the in-game strategy of Goons is bad. I think they are bad people. I was preaching from the very start that you must earn money to be successful, therefore "carebears" should be invited and welcomed into nullsec alliances (not just tolerated as renters). Most nullsec people disagree with me and go for "pure PvP, damn carebears". This makes them bad in a game, but they are honest men in real life as they do what they preach.
Goon leaders on the other hand agree with me and organized their Empire according to the same ideas that I told (they were here first, I'm not claiming they listened to me). But instead of being open about it and let other people learn (read: real people learn about the game), they lie to everyone and lead hate campaigns (Hukageddon, Burn Jita) against "carebears" to cover it up. They force all their coalition (their blues, people who trust them) to function according to rules they know to be bad. Then secretly let their pure blood members do what works: carebearing. If everything goes according to plan, everyone will remain ignorant about proper playing of EVE (including their blues and even most of their pure blood Goons) and they win.
The Goon line members - while probably have no clue about the masterplan - are accepting this privileged position of being carebears while everyone else is forced to pass PvP performance tests. They don't speak up "hey Mittens, give them a break, we fight less and farm more then them, if we can, they can too". Nor they find it weird to go on a "kill all carebears" campaign to highsec after carebearing all week.
In short "Let's all do X" makes you ignorant if X is bad. "Let's all do X guys! - but I won't because I know it's a lie" makes you an evil person, regardless of the merit of X. |
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Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:48:00 -
[1361] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
In short "Let's all do X" makes you ignorant if X is bad. "Let's all do X guys! - but I won't because I know it's a lie" makes you an evil person, regardless of the merit of X.
Congratulations, the committee of internet hypocrites welcomes you. |
Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
56
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:51:00 -
[1362] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: wall of text
Don't justify your asshatery with some lame theories. You haven't been in CFC for a second and now your talking about some Goon masterplan. Pathetic. |
Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2014.02.08 17:53:00 -
[1363] - Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection |
Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
58
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:01:00 -
[1364] - Quote
Xaerael Endiel wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Quote:Projection tends to come to the fore in normal people at times of crisis, personal or political, but is more commonly found in the neurotic or psychoticGÇöin personalities functioning at a primitive level as in narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder.
Fits. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2523
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:19:00 -
[1365] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:You see, this is the problem. I don't think the in-game strategy of Goons is bad. I think they are bad people. I think you misunderstood. We are saying that the lemmings strategy is bad, and we have all along. You are responding with personal, out of game attack on goons.
Gevlon Goblin wrote:I was preaching from the very start that you must earn money to be successful, therefore "carebears" should be invited and welcomed into nullsec alliances (not just tolerated as renters). Most nullsec people disagree with me and go for "pure PvP, damn carebears". This makes them bad in a game, but they are honest men in real life as they do what they preach. Nobody, not even goons has ever claimed that making isk was a bad thing. But someone who purely wants to make isk and is not going to get on board when the alliance is attacked is of no use, especially when they are making it for themselves, which most carebears are. This is why most alliances operate with a balance by having freedom to rat most of the time but an all hand on deck approach to CTAs. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6172
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:21:00 -
[1366] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:Xaerael Endiel wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection Quote:Projection tends to come to the fore in normal people at times of crisis, personal or political, but is more commonly found in the neurotic or psychoticGÇöin personalities functioning at a primitive level as in narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. Fits. We're not normal people though. We're apparently sub-human. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Pete Butcher
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
58
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:27:00 -
[1367] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:Xaerael Endiel wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection Quote:Projection tends to come to the fore in normal people at times of crisis, personal or political, but is more commonly found in the neurotic or psychoticGÇöin personalities functioning at a primitive level as in narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. Fits. We're not normal people though. We're apparently sub-human.
I'm just waiting for goblin's post where he justifies his words with more nonsense. I wonder if it will be more funny or sad. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6172
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:37:00 -
[1368] - Quote
Look, I just glanced upwards and saw this litttle popup.
It read: Assist to ==> The Mittani
I thought they changed drone assist~~~
I also heard something like "drop fighters" and immediately felt compelled to log in and shoot structures. What's going on, I'm scared ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:40:00 -
[1369] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nobody, not even goons has ever claimed that making isk was a bad thing. But someone who purely wants to make isk and is not going to get on board when the alliance is attacked is of no use, especially when they are making it for themselves, which most carebears are. In this we fully disagree and this is one thing I wish to disprove now. I do nothing in Lemmings and Marmites than making ISK. That's my contribution to their war. I barely fly combat. Yet I'm useful, enabling their kills by paying the wardec bills. The null ratter gives the tax to his corp, even if he doesn't mean to.
But that's a disagreement over a game which doesn't make any of us bad real life people, regardless of the merit of carebearing. Goons on the other hand rat day and night, but force their pets to kick "useless carebears". Which make them real life liars and no better than the chess master who writes a book to novice players, full of purposefully bad advices just to decrease the number of later competitors. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3503
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Posted - 2014.02.08 18:50:00 -
[1370] - Quote
So you say they are terrible human beings because they sometimes lie in Eve Online? I just want to be sure we are on the same page. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
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Josh Minar
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
1
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:08:00 -
[1371] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:You haven't been in CFC for a second and now your talking about some Goon masterplan. The Goon masterplan is nothing complex or secretive. Just look at CFC and see them be the tamed Goon pets they are. That's the Goon masterplan.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2523
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:24:00 -
[1372] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Nobody, not even goons has ever claimed that making isk was a bad thing. But someone who purely wants to make isk and is not going to get on board when the alliance is attacked is of no use, especially when they are making it for themselves, which most carebears are. In this we fully disagree and this is one thing I wish to disprove now. I do nothing in Lemmings and Marmites than making ISK. That's my contribution to their war. I barely fly combat. Yet I'm useful, enabling their kills by paying the wardec bills. The null ratter gives the tax to his corp, even if he doesn't mean to. But that's a disagreement over a game which doesn't make any of us bad real life people, regardless of the merit of carebearing. Lemmings isn't a viable null group. Sure, when a small group is performing a task which requires so much isk, then an easy isk source is useful, but when you have an alliance consisting of thousands of people, pure PVE pilots are considerably less useful. See, contrary to what you believe, wars aren't won through isk alone, they take considerable amounts of manpower. If the option was given to PVE pilots to just do PVE, then the numbers available to the war front would drop.
Pretty much what you are fighting to prove is already proven though. Through renting. If people want to contribute to a null group through PVE and not be involved in the PvP side, they can rent. It's no different for how it would be if pure PVE pilots were recruited. Funding just another high sec war group is not going to prove anything beyond "camping is a good way to pad killboards" which literally anyone could tell you.
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Goons on the other hand rat day and night, but force their pets to kick "useless carebears". Which make them real life liars and no better than the chess master who writes a book to novice players, full of purposefully bad advices just to decrease the number of later competitors. There is probably no point in arguing with this since you are clearly adamant you are right. You've taken 2 flawed sets of data, mixed in a bucket load of assumptions and come to a flawed conclusion. The thing is, we show up for fleets, so we know who is actually there. We get participation stats, so we know who is actually there. You mashing some bad stats together and getting the wrong end of the stick doesn't impact anything.
Thinking that the goons are putting forward bad ideas pretending they are good to force the competition to follow bad advice is frankly ludicrous. It assumes that everyone is listening to everything the goons say and following it word for word, at the same time as going against things that have bee stated by the goons. It really makes no sense. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:50:00 -
[1373] - Quote
Admiral Grr wrote:Gevlon may not see it yet, but he has started a movement that he cannot control. While I certainly welcome his isk and players, he cannot pull the strings in this alliance, so he calls anything not his a scam.
Sad.
Sov will be addressed once this movement has thousands of players, not 400 between 2 alliances.
Come join Bee Squashers and get in on this historical movement on the ground floor!
Goons, hedge your bets and app in today.
Been scammed by Goons, join and extract your revenge!
Just wanna shoot stuff? Join and enjoy the free wardec.
You are going places E1. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1320
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Posted - 2014.02.08 20:07:00 -
[1374] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Alp Khan wrote: I'm still waiting for Gevlon to tell us what we are since according to his post, we're not human.
Goon: "is a personal bodyguard or a thug or ruffian employed by a person or people as a personal enforcer. A goon typically intimidates, assaults, or batters people who oppose their employer." I don't doubt that goons are biologically humans, I just say the similarities end here. Once upon a time some webmaster wrote angry words about being harassed by Lowtax's goons and that designation was in turn adopted by the members of the SA forum community.
The way goons play EVE is quite unique compared to the vast majority of the other games they play but they are always called "goons".
Trying to derive any characteristics of the EVE organization from their use of this term is pretty dumb. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
149
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Posted - 2014.02.08 20:26:00 -
[1375] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:So you say they are terrible human beings because they sometimes lie in Eve Online? I just want to be sure we are on the same page. No, they are bad because they lie about EVE. They don't lie about tactical information like their fleet comp or their titan building systems. They lie about basic game information, making literally hundreds of thousands of new players start to play the wrong way and find EVE a bad game.
Lucas Kell wrote:Pretty much what you are fighting to prove is already proven though. Through renting. If people want to contribute to a null group through PVE and not be involved in the PvP side, they can rent. It's no different for how it would be if pure PVE pilots were recruited. I strongly disagree. Renter is a business transaction: I pay you 3B, you give me a system. If other alliance offers a better system for 3B, I move. I'm talking about players who identify with the alliance, loyal to it, but dislike PvP and prefer to contribute via filling the coffers.
Telling that "renter = PvE member" is like "mercenary = PvP member".
Lucas Kell wrote:Thinking that the goons are putting forward bad ideas pretending they are good to force the competition to follow bad advice is frankly ludicrous. It assumes that everyone is listening to everything the goons say and following it word for word, at the same time as going against things that have bee stated by the goons. It really makes no sense. That's not how it's happening. The thing is that Goons don't have hard time convincing people "pure PvP is all the way, kick useless carebears", because this is what they want to believe. Most of them are PvP-ers so they love to hear that they are more valuable than carebears. Goons are abusing a pre-existing nonsense. But that doesn't make them less of a liar. |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
125
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Posted - 2014.02.08 20:41:00 -
[1376] - Quote
This debate can't make any sort of sense if we don't even agree on what a carebear is!
Gevlon: A carebear is someone who's unwilling to fight. If a nullsec member spends 95% of his time ratting and mining, but when the alliance needs warships he jumps into a BC (or even a frigate!) to help... he's not a carebear. He may be a PvE mostly player, but he's willing to fight to help defend his alliance's territory - or attack the alliance's enemies. He's useful. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3503
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Posted - 2014.02.08 21:08:00 -
[1377] - Quote
How does that make them terrible human beings? See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
876
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Posted - 2014.02.08 21:13:00 -
[1378] - Quote
Louis Robichaud wrote:This debate can't make any sort of sense if we don't even agree on what a carebear is! This debate doesn't make any sort of sense any more, whatever you try to agree upon. Period. As such, and as moderating this thread has gone beyond any feasible point*), it gets a lock.
*) Removing every single post that breaks at least one of the forum rules would result in halving the thread. At least...
ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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