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Arkive
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Posted - 2006.03.19 21:51:00 -
[1]
Armor tankers have a low-slot module that gives a great cap charge boost at the expense of shield boosting...well, how about an equivalent module that reduces armor-repairing? Heck, you can even make it a mid-slot item since armor tankers are hurting more by giving up a low slot then shield tankers are (which would basically just be a really nice cap charger, but at least it would be something, no?)
------------------------------------- Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes) |
Foulis
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Posted - 2006.03.19 21:53:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Foulis on 19/03/2006 21:53:11 It's called the shield power relay. It allows you to have a passive tank that's just insane.
Edit: Ever heard of a cap recharger? ---- I <3 Taranis
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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Arkive
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Posted - 2006.03.19 21:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Foulis Edited by: Foulis on 19/03/2006 21:53:11 It's called the shield power relay. It allows you to have a passive tank that's just insane.
Edit: Ever heard of a cap recharger?
Yea, I've heard of them. They reduce a usable attribute at the expense of boosting another. A CPR however nerfs a completely unused attribute. See the point now? Also, in your haste to rebunk my post, you failed to read the whole post where I clearly mention cap chargers.
------------------------------------- Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes) |
inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.03.19 21:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Arkive
Armor tankers have a low-slot module that gives a great cap charge boost at the expense of shield boosting...well, how about an equivalent module that reduces armor-repairing? Heck, you can even make it a mid-slot item since armor tankers are hurting more by giving up a low slot then shield tankers are (which would basically just be a really nice cap charger, but at least it would be something, no?)
That doesn't make any sense. Shields have a natural passive recharge and that's what gets gimped with CPRs.
Armor tankers have no passive recharge, so why nerf what's not there?
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:28:00 -
[5]
He is talking about:
Shield users cannot fit a lot of CPR's in their lows because it nerfs their shield boost.
Armor users can fit a lot of cap chargers in their mids because it doesnt nerf their armor recharge.
So I think he wants a mid slot item that boosts cap recharge by a lot at the expense of armor ? idk. ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted |
Merv Tring
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:35:00 -
[6]
3 words: Power Diagnostic System.
------------------------------------------- My my my, how the time does fly, When you know you're gonna die by the end of the night. |
Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:41:00 -
[7]
What I would like to see is an inverse of the capacitor flux coil. More cap volume and less cap recharge rate. Do I have a devious intended use for it? Why yes, yes I do.
Assault Missile Launcher Improvement
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Arkive
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Merv Tring 3 words: Power Diagnostic System.
28 words: You are missing the point. That item helps armor *and* shield tankers. The CPR is specifically only useful to armor tankers, and there is no shield tanking equivalent.
------------------------------------- Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes) |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Arkive
Armor tankers have a low-slot module that gives a great cap charge boost at the expense of shield boosting...well, how about an equivalent module that reduces armor-repairing? Heck, you can even make it a mid-slot item since armor tankers are hurting more by giving up a low slot then shield tankers are (which would basically just be a really nice cap charger, but at least it would be something, no?)
That doesn't make any sense. Shields have a natural passive recharge and that's what gets gimped with CPRs.
Armor tankers have no passive recharge, so why nerf what's not there?
that would an amazingly important and valid post, except for one minor issue. its completely and utterly wrong
CPRs nerf boosting, not recharging
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Zhaine
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zhaine on 19/03/2006 22:55:26
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Arkive
Armor tankers have a low-slot module that gives a great cap charge boost at the expense of shield boosting...well, how about an equivalent module that reduces armor-repairing? Heck, you can even make it a mid-slot item since armor tankers are hurting more by giving up a low slot then shield tankers are (which would basically just be a really nice cap charger, but at least it would be something, no?)
That doesn't make any sense. Shields have a natural passive recharge and that's what gets gimped with CPRs.
Armor tankers have no passive recharge, so why nerf what's not there?
that would an amazingly important and valid post, except for one minor issue. its completely and utterly wrong
CPRs nerf boosting, not recharging
**** me, according to the item database you're right. . . so how come it was a huge advantage to use CPRs on a passive tank Raven during the stacking b0rkage, but it's not afterwards? Surely if CPRs don't affect recharge but only boost they're perfect for passively tanked ships still (which they're not, or so I thought)? Or am I just confizzled?
EDIT: And to the OP, you're taking the rather naive view that everything has an equivalent or a counter in Eve. It's just not that simple a game and shield and armor tanking are two very different things with two very different sets of modules. Armor tankers (like myself, a pure Amarr pilot) don't get an active module which gives bonuses to all resists (an Invulnerability field equivalent) but I'm really not complaining. . . - - - - - - - - - -
Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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James Draekn
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:59:00 -
[11]
I will agree that this module is needed.....
So long as they give armor a recharge/regen rate just like shields. As well as half the cycle time and cap usage of armor repairers across the board.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 19/03/2006 23:01:08
Originally by: Zhaine
**** me, according to the item database you're right. . . so how come it was a huge advantage to use CPRs on a passive tank Raven during the stacking b0rkage, but it's not afterwards? Surely if CPRs don't affect recharge but only boost they're perfect for passively tanked ships still (which they're not, or so I thought)? Or am I just confizzled?
It worked with active tanks. As negative and positive effects stacked together, with the boni ones "stacking first", you could have 3-4 boost amps and be basicly unaffected by the cap relay penalty to shield boosting.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Merv Tring
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arkive
Originally by: Merv Tring 3 words: Power Diagnostic System.
28 words: You are missing the point. That item helps armor *and* shield tankers. The CPR is specifically only useful to armor tankers, and there is no shield tanking equivalent.
The PDS is doubly useful for shield tankers, since the added shield capacity and recharge are far more useful on a hardened and/or extended shield. At the same time, for some setups a CPR can be useful for a shield tank, especially if it allows you to run you tank indefinitely; you don't tank as well in the short term, but you can tank more long term damage.
Also, if you wanna be picky you could argue CPR to be three words .
------------------------------------------- My my my, how the time does fly, When you know you're gonna die by the end of the night. |
inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: HippoKing that would an amazingly important and valid post, except for one minor issue. its completely and utterly wrong
CPRs nerf boosting, not recharging
Well pointed out.
Which equally makes no sense, because I can see the difference in passive recharge rate on my Apoc as I swap CPRs for Cap Rechargers. So something's amiss...
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Idara
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:12:00 -
[15]
First, armour and shield tanking isn't equal in every way.
Second, CPR's hurt boost amount because if they didn't, a Raven could fit a full tank in mid and fill up lows with CPR's to run t forever.
Armour tankers give up low slots, that could be used for fitting reppers and hardeners, to fit a CPR to give extra recharge. Taking a slot that is needed for hardening is already a penalty.
-------------------------------------------------------- Lieutenant Commander BSC Military
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Vina
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:15:00 -
[16]
tbh, the Cap relay nerf was made obsolete with the addition of ballistic controls. -----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Arkive
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Idara Armour tankers give up low slots, that could be used for fitting reppers and hardeners, to fit a CPR to give extra recharge. Taking a slot that is needed for hardening is already a penalty.
Which is why I mentioned a mid-slot item that gave better recharge then cap chargers, but at the cost of armor rep or total armor hit points. That would force shield tanker to give up a "shield slot" if they wanted it, while at the same time making armor tankers take a hit if they wanted to use one too, which they obviously wouldn't.
------------------------------------- Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes) |
Kaiu
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zhaine ...Or am I just confizzled?
EDIT: And to the OP, you're taking the rather naive view that everything has an equivalent or a counter in Eve. It's just not that simple a game and shield and armor tanking are two very different things with two very different sets of modules. Armor tankers (like myself, a pure Amarr pilot) don't get an active module which gives bonuses to all resists (an Invulnerability field equivalent) but I'm really not complaining. . .
Where do V find these guys?
Perhaps you have not been introduced to the Damage Controls?
Fantastic little toys
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.03.20 00:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kaiu
Originally by: Zhaine ...Or am I just confizzled?
EDIT: And to the OP, you're taking the rather naive view that everything has an equivalent or a counter in Eve. It's just not that simple a game and shield and armor tanking are two very different things with two very different sets of modules. Armor tankers (like myself, a pure Amarr pilot) don't get an active module which gives bonuses to all resists (an Invulnerability field equivalent) but I'm really not complaining. . .
Where do V find these guys?
Perhaps you have not been introduced to the Damage Controls?
Fantastic little toys
Damage controls give a negligable bonus to active tanks. The poster was pointing out that there is no active equivilent to the Invulnerability Field in Armor tanking. Fair enough. There is also no passive equivilent to the Energised Adaptive Nano Plating. This is pretty much what we call 'balance'.
sgb
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.03.20 01:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arkive
Originally by: Idara Armour tankers give up low slots, that could be used for fitting reppers and hardeners, to fit a CPR to give extra recharge. Taking a slot that is needed for hardening is already a penalty.
Which is why I mentioned a mid-slot item that gave better recharge then cap chargers, but at the cost of armor rep or total armor hit points. That would force shield tanker to give up a "shield slot" if they wanted it, while at the same time making armor tankers take a hit if they wanted to use one too, which they obviously wouldn't.
You mean.....like a Shield Boost Amp? Gives better active boost, takes a Mid slot, no other downside?
I wish armour tankers had an Armour Boost Amp....
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MellaRinn
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Posted - 2006.03.20 02:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zhaine Edited by: Zhaine on 19/03/2006 22:56:16 Armor tankers (like myself, a pure Amarr pilot) don't get an active module which gives bonuses to all resists (an Invulnerability field equivalent) but I'm really not complaining. . .
Damage Control System (but it sucks for armour tankers as the Energized Adaptive Nano is beter and is passive, lol
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.03.20 02:20:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lorette on 20/03/2006 02:22:30 In a PvE situation an adaptive nano is 100% better than a damage control imo. In PvP that 56-60% all around hull resist can come in extremely handy esp if youre in a mega with 7500 hull Oh and DC is barely active, 0.033 cap/s is barely worth calculating.
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newfacex
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Posted - 2006.03.20 11:52:00 -
[23]
Damage control doesnt have stacking issues...
Damage control is easily one of the best mod's and it is a direct opponent to shield tanking invuln field...field. only difference? THe damage control is BETTER!
Yes, argue all you like. it is ACTIVE. Therefore it doesnt stack etc
1cpu is still 1cpu
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Vatrena
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Posted - 2006.03.20 12:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: newfacex Damage control doesnt have stacking issues...
It doesn't have stacking issues because you can only have 1 active at a time. ;)
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.20 12:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Arkive
Originally by: Idara Armour tankers give up low slots, that could be used for fitting reppers and hardeners, to fit a CPR to give extra recharge. Taking a slot that is needed for hardening is already a penalty.
Which is why I mentioned a mid-slot item that gave better recharge then cap chargers, but at the cost of armor rep or total armor hit points. That would force shield tanker to give up a "shield slot" if they wanted it, while at the same time making armor tankers take a hit if they wanted to use one too, which they obviously wouldn't.
You mean.....like a Shield Boost Amp? Gives better active boost, takes a Mid slot, no other downside?
I wish armour tankers had an Armour Boost Amp....
^^
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Miklas Laces
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Posted - 2006.03.20 13:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Arkive
Armor tankers have a low-slot module that gives a great cap charge boost at the expense of shield boosting...well, how about an equivalent module that reduces armor-repairing?
Shield tankers got an item that boosts shield, powergrid and cap (PDS), well how about an item that boosts armor, powergrid and cap ?
Shield tankers have passive shield recharge, well how about passive armor repair ?
I think you can see the point Your post is non-sense.
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Arkive
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
You mean.....like a Shield Boost Amp? Gives better active boost, takes a Mid slot, no other downside?
I wish armour tankers had an Armour Boost Amp....
This is amusing. How about the fact that Armor reps repair an equivalent amount of armor to a shield booster with an amp, and look, you only had to use one slot.
------------------------------------- Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes) |
Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 20/03/2006 14:36:02
Originally by: Arkive This is amusing. How about the fact that Armor reps repair an equivalent amount of armor to a shield booster with an amp, and look, you only had to use one slot.
xl booster 2 + amp = 780 hp / 5 sec = 156 hp/s 780 hp / 360 cap = ~2,2 hp/cap
large rep 2 = 800 hp / 11,25 sec = ~71.1 hp/s 800 hp / 400 cap = 2 hp/cap
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ras Blumin Edited by: Ras Blumin on 20/03/2006 14:36:02
Originally by: Arkive This is amusing. How about the fact that Armor reps repair an equivalent amount of armor to a shield booster with an amp, and look, you only had to use one slot.
xl booster 2 + amp = 780 hp / 5 sec = 156 hp/s 780 hp / 360 cap = ~2,2 hp/cap
large rep 2 = 800 hp / 11,25 sec = ~71.1 hp/s 800 hp / 400 cap = 2 hp/cap
How about comparing like with like?
Rather than what equates to comparing a small armour rep to a medium shield booster. ----- Memorable Quotes <Jarltan Dimtras> OH MY GOD MY GF IS A DUDE |
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:51:00 -
[30]
same old debate ---------------------------------------------
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