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Suicide Run
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.01.10 03:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen plenty of discussion already calling for interceptor rebalances. However, most of the ideas have called to nerf the ships, rather than introduce a counter. CCP has a history of wanting checks and balances to accompany their balancing efforts. So why nerf a ship when instead you can add a function to another ship to help counter them?
The solution to this question is the Heavy Interdictor aka Hictor. The Hictor was introduced as a way of tackling Supers with their infinite point. Recently, they received a "buff" to bubble size with the introduction of T2 Warp Disruption Field Generators. They allowed for bubbles with a 48km diameter with max skills. However, while the bubble is up the hictor cannot receive remote assistance, making it tricky to manage the bubble cycles while in a fleet engagement. This causes it to be used less when tackling fleets of enemy capitals- the ship of choice being their cheaper interdictor counterparts with their ability to put up many bubbles before their demise. Even deployable bubbles have made the use of a hictor relatively obsolete in gatecamps.
The reality is that most people will train into a Hictor and leave their Heavy Interdictor skill at level IV. It is already a very long train for a Heavy Interdictor. Couple that with an even longer train to obtain a a T2 warp disruption field generator, many will not spend the additional 25+ days it takes to get HIC V.
Those who trained into a maxed out heavy Interdictor should have their excessively long training rewarded with a unique ability added to T2 Warp Disruption Field Generators: The ability to stop nullified ships, including both T3 and Interceptors. A nullified T3 or interceptor will still retain their ability to warp through deployable bubbles, warp disruption probes, and even T1 Warp disruption field generators, while also adding a bonus ability to the active pilot flying a fully trained Heavy Interdictor.
If it is felt that the size of the Hictor bubble combined with the ability to stop nullified ships would be OP, then an alternative would be to add a special script for the bubble that would create a "layered" bubble. This would produce a smaller bubble that would be capable of catching these nullified type ships.
This change allows for a forward progression of the ships and their defined abilities, both for the Interceptors and Heavy Interdictors, without breaking the balance too far in any one direction. A hictor does not have the ability to solo any of these ships, and would retain their role within fleets. Additionally, the presence of this bubble is not a hard counter to nullified ships as there are plenty of ways to still escape. Interceptors can still burn out of the bubble or gatecrash faster than most ships can lock them, and nullified T3s can still fit a cloak with the right subsystems. Scanning a gate prior to warping to it is always an option as well. Either way, it would be a positive change without breaking mechanics. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.01.10 03:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 for utility and counter to t3's. Will still be only bad inty pilots dying, but the chance to catch the nulled ones would be worth it.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
325
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Posted - 2014.01.10 03:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
What is this I don't even. How droll. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
696
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Posted - 2014.01.10 03:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
everything what counters that nullification bullcrap is a good thing! approve of that! |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1185
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Posted - 2014.01.10 03:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Giving this advantage to hictors and hictors alone would be pretty interesting. However making a unique role bonus based on getting the hictor skill to 5 is silly, that bonus is fine. It would clearly be something related to the hictor module itself. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Guns'N'Ammo
The Dark Resistance
1
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Posted - 2014.01.10 04:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Giving this advantage to hictors and hictors alone would be pretty interesting by making a unique role bonus based on the hictor module itself.
I like it too.
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
120
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Posted - 2014.01.10 04:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Suicide Run wrote:
Those who trained into a maxed out heavy Interdictor should have their excessively long training rewarded with a unique ability added to T2 Warp Disruption Field Generators: The ability to stop nullified ships, including both T3 and Interceptors. A nullified T3 or interceptor will still retain their ability to warp through deployable bubbles, warp disruption probes, and even T1 Warp disruption field generators, while also adding a bonus ability to the active pilot flying a fully trained Heavy Interdictor.
Training skill to level 5 does not mean you are entiteled to unique ability reward, it is usually just small upgrate few % here and there. CCP made interceptors bubble immune for reason. Why on earth they would give weapon that will stop that ability? We all know everyone will use nullified stopping bubble. It would make more sense to remove bubble immunity from interceptors rather than continue arms race. So no thank you.
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Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
47
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Posted - 2014.01.10 04:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like the idea of a script that can only be slotted in the T2 variant of the warp disruptor field, and requires at least Graviton Physics V, and possibly Heavy Interdictor to V as well. Would cut the size of the bubble down significantly, but allow it to block even nullified ships. And I say that as someone who flies around in interceptors and nullified T3s a LOT in WH space...
And the argument that CCP added it for a reason is BS. Yes, they had an intention when they added it. That doesn't mean that reality has matched with that intention. In addition, EVE has sort of a standard pattern, where something generalized (ships warping) is countered by something more specific and training-intensive (warp disruptors, bubbled), which is countered by something even more specific (nullification, which only affects bubbles, and stabs, which only affect points), and so on. It makes sense that something even more training heavy and that's even more specific (lowered range reduces it's effectiveness at primary role, so it is specifically tailoring for nullification-blocking) would be able to counter that. |
Equinox Ying
United Rebels of the Frontier
6
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Posted - 2014.01.10 05:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
You have a good idea, I think if there was a module that you could fit to nullify warp bubbles I would agree with your point, but its only 2 types of ship. The reason most people aren't training to level V is because it only gives a little bit of a bonus, most people are happy with level IV, but if level V gave the ability to stop EVERY ship that passed through it would cause a lot more people to add level V to their skill queue. I think for the time being things should remain the same, but if more ships become nullified, then you might have the right idea. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
55
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
maybe make it a script that can only be used with the T2 bubble, and also requires HIC's V? and it needs a visual effect, so that people can see what's happening...... (maybe a red instead of a blue bubble?) |
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
120
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daenika wrote:In addition, EVE has sort of a standard pattern, where something generalized (ships warping) is countered by something more specific and training-intensive (warp disruptors, bubbled), which is countered by something even more specific (nullification, which only affects bubbles, and stabs, which only affect points), and so on. It makes sense that something even more training heavy and that's even more specific (lowered range reduces it's effectiveness at primary role, so it is specifically tailoring for nullification-blocking) would be able to counter that.
The Range reduction. That is the key, I think. I've been reading this thread, see-sawing back and forth, but reducing the range to be a very specific tool for specific interdiction(Not just another thing to Easy mode on gates) is what really makes this idea seem legit, I think.
Reduce the range of the bubble, and make it require the best of heavy interdiction skills and you'll get a +1 here. :) The Law is a point of View |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
404
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here's my 2 cents:
Make it possible to overheat a warp disruption field generator. The overheat bonus is that it will also interdict nullified ships.
Why? An overheated module will burn out before too long, adding an element of risk management to this feature. It might allow you to catch a nullified target, but you might also burn out and not be able to catch any targets. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
325
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Posted - 2014.01.10 11:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm surprised more people aren't against this.
Yes, please take away one of the unique advantages of these two ship types, they don't need it. And please, make it so only someone who puts an inordinate amount of time into training Heavy Interdictors can have this incredibly powerful ability. How droll. |
Cichlid Brood
Team Pizza The Hole Next Door
1
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Posted - 2014.01.10 11:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
828
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Posted - 2014.01.10 13:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eeeeh... No.
I'd rather see the T2 bubble preventing ships to cloak within its radius, giving a chance to people to lock and point cloaky nullified T3 before they warp, rather than a straight-on disabling of bubble immunity.
You see, bubble immunity is here to counter interdictors, heavy interdictors, and bubbles. It is a counter to these three. You cannot counter a counter with what this first counter was countering ! (If you see what I mean... ^^) G££ <= Me |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1086
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't think that gatecamps are something that should be encouraged. It's lazy play. |
Jureth22
Perkone Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
no |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2888
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:I don't think that gatecamps are something that should be encouraged. It's lazy play.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1187
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:I'm surprised more people aren't against this.
Yes, please take away one of the unique advantages of these two ship types, they don't need it. And please, make it so only someone who puts an inordinate amount of time into training Heavy Interdictors can have this incredibly powerful ability.
I fly nullified t3s a lot, but I also flew cloaky stuff for a long time before t3's were around, so I consider nullification (on t3's at least) to be sort of an unnecessary luxury that just allows me to lazily warp gate to gate. If it was solely given to hictors, and especially if it involved a script, its not the sort of thing that I think would adversely affect me too much. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tiberu Stundrif
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
102
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you are going to do that, I suggest you make a script which ONLY catches Interdiction Nullified ships and ignores all other ships. This would give those that train for the T2 Warp Disruption Field Generator an advantage but would not make it incredibly overpowered. |
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
843
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Posted - 2014.01.10 14:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have a counter proposal, Heavy Neutralizer bubbles to disable all shield mods inside...
Or a Hacking Module to disable any starget in 1000km range for 1 Minute.... BWAHAAHAHAAAOHGOD this is more awesome than I initially thought.
Or another module to disable interceptors permanently... How do we call them... Oh right, lets call it "gun". With this "gun" you can shoot some kind of miniature container directly at the interceptor, this miniature container contains a substantial amount of "win" and/or "awesome" which then would nerf the interceptors hitpoints. This process should be repeatable until the hitpoint reach a value of 0 or until the interceptor manages to leave... which should not be possible since your miniature containers are full of win so loosing is not an option.... Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:If you are going to do that, I suggest you make a script which ONLY catches Interdiction Nullified ships and ignores all other ships. This would give those that train for the T2 Warp Disruption Field Generator an advantage but would not make it incredibly overpowered.
A sensible limitation, would be interesting to see triple bubble setups
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Tiberu Stundrif
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
103
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:Tiberu Stundrif wrote:If you are going to do that, I suggest you make a script which ONLY catches Interdiction Nullified ships and ignores all other ships. This would give those that train for the T2 Warp Disruption Field Generator an advantage but would not make it incredibly overpowered. A sensible limitation, would be interesting to see triple bubble setups
It would make sense to not allow unscripted bubbles to be activated when you have this script activated. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
468
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sounds generally good. T2 version of hictor bubble requires 4 level 5 skills and more fitting, and that only gives a modest boost to range. So there is very little reason to fit a T2 bubble generator to your HIC. Giving them the ability to catch nullified ships would really boost their popularity. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Tiberu Stundrif
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
103
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
So... what do we call Interdiction Nullification now that we are proposing we make it useless? |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.01.10 19:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Interdiction Countermeasures Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
783
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Posted - 2014.01.10 19:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:If you are going to do that, I suggest you make a script which ONLY catches Interdiction Nullified ships and ignores all other ships. This would give those that train for the T2 Warp Disruption Field Generator an advantage but would not make it incredibly overpowered. Well, this approach at least affects hunting gang composition ("bring HIC and another bubbler"). Plain "make skilled HIC counter nullification" is almost an equivalent to "make HIC counter nullification period" when you consider average age of combat toons at this point. Unless you're fine with that ofc. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8264
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Posted - 2014.01.10 20:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:If you are going to do that, I suggest you make a script which ONLY catches Interdiction Nullified ships and ignores all other ships. This would give those that train for the T2 Warp Disruption Field Generator an advantage but would not make it incredibly overpowered. Still wouldn't work, since you could have two HICs close together, one running the unscripted bubble and the other running the interdiction nullification nullifier bubble. My EVE Videos |
Kadazer
GAZNOROCK Inc. GANOR INC.
45
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Posted - 2014.01.10 20:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Will there then be an interdiction nullifier nullifier nullifier? |
Crash Course
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.01.11 12:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Seems like a good idea to me
+1 |
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