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Hanna Cyrus
Paranocxium Brotherhood Of Silent Space
38
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Posted - 2014.01.11 12:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
I like, +1 from me.
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
172
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Posted - 2014.01.11 13:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1
I like flying Interceptors, but the combination of Nullification and extrem fast aligne times gives them a bit to much the "Go-out-of-Prison-Card". |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
155
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Posted - 2014.01.11 13:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Making it completely impossible to safely move anything into nullsec without a second account (as a scout alt or cyno alt for your carrier) is a bad idea. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8281
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bubbles are balanced currently. This would completely throw off that balance. My EVE Videos |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16443
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Bubbles are balanced currently. This would completely throw off that balance. This.
The nullifier is a counter to bubbles, you now wish for a counter to that counter. Then as someone has already suggested, some will ask for a counter to your counter. So no, there has to be a point when we stop with counters and I believe that was at the nullifier.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
NearNihil
Every time is Fuwa time
107
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Just because it's not super easy to catch nullified ships (and mind you, only one ship class inherently has them, T3's don't always have them) doesn't mean they should have a hard counter - especially one that doesn't make sense. They're immune to bubbles, so let's make a bubble that they're not immune to?
Also, in actual combat, they're squishy - have you tried using remote sensor boosters? They do the job quite well; sebo an interceptor or other frigate with a longpoint or something (Hyena with longpoint and webs, Keres with boosts and OH'd scram, any tackle ceptor with heat and a scram to name a few) and there's your "I want to be able to kill nullified ships at my gatecamp abloo bloo my killboard needs padding".
Oh and another thing. I didn't get anything special for training Logi 5. Nor Tactical Logistics Configuration 5. Recon 5. Why would I get something special for HIC 5? |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
157
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
NearNihil wrote:Just because it's not super easy to catch nullified ships (and mind you, only one ship class inherently has them, T3's don't always have them) doesn't mean they should have a hard counter - especially one that doesn't make sense. They're immune to bubbles, so let's make a bubble that they're not immune to?
Also, in actual combat, they're squishy - have you tried using remote sensor boosters? They do the job quite well; sebo an interceptor or other frigate with a longpoint or something (Hyena with longpoint and webs, Keres with boosts and OH'd scram, any tackle ceptor with heat and a scram to name a few) and there's your "I want to be able to kill nullified ships at my gatecamp abloo bloo my killboard needs padding".
Oh and another thing. I didn't get anything special for training Logi 5. Nor Tactical Logistics Configuration 5. Recon 5. Why would I get something special for HIC 5?
Eve runs on 1 second ticks, you cannot lock something before it cloaks unless they screw up or lag no matter what your sensor resolution is.
Anything with a 2 second align time or less cannot be locked before it enters warp on a gate.
BTW, you did get something for Logi V.....the ability to fly a Guardian. They don't work without V. Recon V also gives the covert recons more CPU, which enables a lot of fits that don't otherwise work. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
556
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Daenika wrote:I like the idea of a script that can only be slotted in the T2 variant of the warp disruptor field, and requires at least Graviton Physics V, and possibly Heavy Interdictor to V as well. Would cut the size of the bubble down significantly, but allow it to block even nullified ships. And I say that as someone who flies around in interceptors and nullified T3s a LOT in WH space...
And the argument that CCP added it for a reason is BS. Yes, they had an intention when they added it. That doesn't mean that reality has matched with that intention. In addition, EVE has sort of a standard pattern, where something generalized (ships warping) is countered by something more specific and training-intensive (warp disruptors, bubbled), which is countered by something even more specific (nullification, which only affects bubbles, and stabs, which only affect points), and so on. It makes sense that something even more training heavy and that's even more specific (lowered range reduces it's effectiveness at primary role, so it is specifically tailoring for nullification-blocking) would be able to counter that.
+1 this variant. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
NearNihil
Every time is Fuwa time
107
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Posted - 2014.01.11 15:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:NearNihil wrote:Just because it's not super easy to catch nullified ships (and mind you, only one ship class inherently has them, T3's don't always have them) doesn't mean they should have a hard counter - especially one that doesn't make sense. They're immune to bubbles, so let's make a bubble that they're not immune to?
Also, in actual combat, they're squishy - have you tried using remote sensor boosters? They do the job quite well; sebo an interceptor or other frigate with a longpoint or something (Hyena with longpoint and webs, Keres with boosts and OH'd scram, any tackle ceptor with heat and a scram to name a few) and there's your "I want to be able to kill nullified ships at my gatecamp abloo bloo my killboard needs padding".
Oh and another thing. I didn't get anything special for training Logi 5. Nor Tactical Logistics Configuration 5. Recon 5. Why would I get something special for HIC 5? Eve runs on 1 second ticks, you cannot lock something before it cloaks unless they screw up or lag no matter what your sensor resolution is. Anything with a 2 second align time or less cannot be locked before it enters warp on a gate. BTW, you did get something for Logi V.....the ability to fly a Guardian. They don't work without V. Recon V also gives the covert recons more CPU, which enables a lot of fits that don't otherwise work. This would make shuttles invulnerable to anything but bubbles and smartbombs, since they have approximately 1.5s align time. Yet I see them getting killed on gates by random Thrashers hoping to nab a shiny kill - they're not even autopiloting.
And the "you get to fly a Guardian" is a silly argument, as I flew them with 4 just fine. You need 2 cap transfers on you, but it works fine. You don't suddenly get a bonus to remote hull reps or anything. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
717
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Posted - 2014.01.11 16:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
No. It's fine the way it is. No trolling please |
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Vesan Terakol
Sad Face Enterprises
30
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Posted - 2014.01.11 16:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
I saw scripts mentioned somewhere.. what if you script the warp disruption generator to work in a cone, instead of sphere and then bypass interdiction nullification. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
469
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Posted - 2014.01.11 16:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Camping a gate is **** easy as it is, this would rather blend in with other popular proposals, like
- add scripts for webbing bubble instead of scrambling bubble - change nullification to only affect landing in a bubble or only warping out of one - bubbles automatically decloak things and block it from cloaking up "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures: The Enyo |
Nykala
L.L.A.M.A.
13
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Posted - 2014.01.11 20:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
If it is in CCP's intentions to get more folks into nullsec, why bother adding a counter to probably the most convenient way for smaller or independent groups outside of larger null blocs to do so? If you want more targets to shoot at out there, try dismantling the "big blue donut" that's been stagnating that space for so long and give folks MORE ways to get into null, not less. Null/no security space...it already is the opposite of its name, being the most secured spaces in EVE. Some folks will always want it to be even more secure I guess. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.01.11 21:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nykala wrote:If it is in CCP's intentions to get more folks into nullsec, why bother adding a counter to probably the most convenient way for smaller or independent groups outside of larger null blocs to do so? If you want more targets to shoot at out there, try dismantling the "big blue donut" that's been stagnating that space for so long and give folks MORE ways to get into null, not less. Null/no security space...it already is the opposite of its name, being the most secured spaces in EVE. Some folks will always want it to be even more secure I guess.
You can lead a horse to water...
I've noticed that most people don't actually want to go to null, where the game truly starts. There are certainly reasons. You are in a corp, but don't really have a same structure as you do at RL work. Its a game, so most people avoid the real life work problems: Politicing, Security, Organization.
Null was given restrictions and rules, and like the real world with its countries and power blocs, the people in charge don't want too much turmoil, it disrupts Organization and Security, and interupts flow of trade. Politicing is needed to keep the status quo. Everyone expects Null to always be a thunderdome, or an endless loop of invasion emigration, Always invading someones territory because someone else is invading yours.
Anyone in null can tell you that the big blue donut is not calm and all-friendly. there is constant jockeying for position, and in politicking, small slips become failscades. We've seen it happen to many nullblock powers. Politicing also means that Todays bitterest foe was more than likely yesterdays bosom pal, and that has happened many times, and will happen again and again.
"getting more people into null" in the Highsec imagination means letting a single person or corp own a system. This would only happen in very special circumstances, like Chribba. To keep null space you need friends ( politicking, security), you need time zine coverage, and a place to stay( security and organization). That means an outpost, and that means more isk than one person could reasonably put forward to such a risk, and a guaranteed loss. The big blue donut has happened after many changes to SOV. Each change required more use of organization, and more people to enact it in the shortest time for security.
Null is not a place for small groups. Large groups have to make an attempt at talk first because large wars are expensive to both sides. It gives the Big Blue donuts a placid appearance, but there is ALWAYS turmoil below the surface. The big blue donut is just proof that some people are willing to put up with the headache tasks of Politicng, Organization and Security, not to have all of it on their own plate, but to at least have a piece of the pie. if you want a kinder softer nullsec try this post,
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2480170#post2480170
then ask what game you really want to play. Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Zane Tekitsu
D.I.C.A.D. Solutions
52
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Posted - 2014.01.11 23:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
T1 interceptors let alone T2 are more than capable of dealing with nullified/ cloakie ships. Yes, even other interceptors. Its easy, and all you have to do is use them. |
Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
52
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Posted - 2014.01.12 06:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:T1 interceptors let alone T2 are more than capable of dealing with nullified/ cloakie ships. Yes, even other interceptors. Its easy, and all you have to do is use them.
I've yet to find a fit that can lock a properly fit interceptor (ie. well nano'd) before it enters warp from a session cloak. Even another interceptor with a sebo can't do it because the 'ceptor you're trying to lock is under session cloak still for more than half of it's align time due to server ticking. If you manage to find a fit that can lock and point a 'ceptor before it enters warp when going straight from a session cloak, I'll grant the point, but as it stands, 'ceptors are effectively uncatchable unless their pilot makes a serious mistake. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
121
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Posted - 2014.01.12 08:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Camping a gate is **** easy as it is, this would rather blend in with other popular proposals, like
- add scripts for webbing bubble instead of scrambling bubble - change nullification to only affect landing in a bubble or only warping out of one - bubbles automatically decloak things and block it from cloaking up
I don't think the idea here is to make camping easier. I think the idea here is to add the appropriate counter to changes made by CCP's Tiericide. If these bubbles were huge(relative term) like standard hictor bubbles, this would be a horrible idea.
If they are very small though, like 5km radii, maybe 10k tops, then they can add a counter to nullified T3's and inty's, without being massively OP, and stopping them from effectively having a 'go anywhere freely' card to a 'go anywhere carefully' card. It's true that coming out of a gate you have no way of guaranteeing your HIC will be close enough to bubble, but it also might be. One of the off's and on's of gate camping. But in other applications, your HIC should have a close enough warp in to do the trick. Should. There shouldn't be anything in Eve that is a get out of jail free card, and inty's currently are pretty close. The Law is a point of View |
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.01.12 10:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sure, if the bubble size becomes significantly smaller it becomes strategic. However they would need to limit you to 1 bubble, else you can just toss them around the entire camp. So, stopping an Inty at a gate while warping would be very tough. A T3 with it's crap align time could be more plausible. |
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