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haunts
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Posted - 2006.03.21 01:09:00 -
[1]
Hi all,
Im on a trail account and really like the idea of pvp in this game, so I want to make a character thats as suited towards fighting as much as I can.
It seems that most gunnery and ship skills require PERception and WILLpower (primary, secondary).
Would a character build with the highest perception, then willpower be the most effective for this?, and if so does anyone know which race it should be? (I can go make many characters to experiment, just thinking many people would of done this in the past!)
Thanks
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Bartrum
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Posted - 2006.03.21 01:59:00 -
[2]
A degree of intelligence is very important for a combat character as well, but yes perc/will skills will be your primary area of training. To give you a rough idea of where to head the current 'optimum' is supposedly the achura with I:10 C:3 P:12 M:6 W:8. But I'd personally advise not picking a race and bloodline based purely on their attributes, at least to me, sacrificing my primary choice of race to shave a couple of weeks of training time off is a little ridiculous. Consider roleplay and immersion factors as well.
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.21 04:52:00 -
[3]
It depends on what ship race and/or primary weapon system you chose.
Gallente Drone Junkies get by with fairly low willpower Caldari Ewar specialists need high int/mem aswell as perception
For a less specialized role (i.e. just flying gunboats) Perception is king. The more perception the better. People say Int/Mem is important too as it speeds up the learning skills early on, but if you look at the long term you'll find that Gunnery and SSC dwarf skilltrees like Engineering and Electronics.
As an Amarr PvP'er especially you will spend more time skilling up Gunnery than Elec and Engi combined.
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Nuri Aderynn
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Posted - 2006.03.21 06:58:00 -
[4]
I heartily agree. Most Engineering/Electronics skills really only need to get to level 4, whereas the Spaceship Command/Gunnery skills require numerous Level V's all the way up to Rank 16 (Titans). Large Railgun Specialization requires 5 level V skills, HACs take 5. If you're into combat only, Perc is the way to go. |
Susa Ou
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Posted - 2006.03.21 07:18:00 -
[5]
the difference however is very minimal, and you will only see a slight difference after a year or two of play. By then, you will be quite happy in training skills that take months to train (like Adv. Starship Command and such). I also cannot stress the racial enough, while Gallente may have lower perception then the Minmatar, they gain in other places. A well rounded charater will get you further then a pure perception junky - which many people will learn in the next few months.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.03.21 07:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nuri Aderynn I heartily agree. Most Engineering/Electronics skills really only need to get to level 4, whereas the Spaceship Command/Gunnery skills require numerous Level V's all the way up to Rank 16 (Titans). Large Railgun Specialization requires 5 level V skills, HACs take 5. If you're into combat only, Perc is the way to go.
If you think you can get by with the Engineering/Electronics skills at IV you're sadly mistaken. They're just as important as the "combat" skills if you want to survive.
Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/03/2006 09:25:33
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Nuri Aderynn I heartily agree. Most Engineering/Electronics skills really only need to get to level 4, whereas the Spaceship Command/Gunnery skills require numerous Level V's all the way up to Rank 16 (Titans). Large Railgun Specialization requires 5 level V skills, HACs take 5. If you're into combat only, Perc is the way to go.
If you think you can get by with the Engineering/Electronics skills at IV you're sadly mistaken. They're just as important as the "combat" skills if you want to survive.
Even more important, i would say. Maxing out these skills is what makes the difference vs another pilot in the same ship. The other pilot might have better gunnery skills (perception) and do a bit more damage, but you will have better shields, cap, regen...well, everything. Also, youll be able to fit your ship to the max, with max hitpoints.
There are alot more skills that require perception/willpower though. I think perception and intelligence should be a little higher (maybe 1-2 points) than average, and charisma lower (maybe 3 points) than average, for a good pvp character.
--- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.21 22:08:00 -
[8]
Do people skip my posts or something?
Its ranks that count here. I never said Engineering skills weren't important. Its just that they're all of fairly low rank, the most important ones being rank 1. The ones that a Gunship PvP'er needs with a rank of 3 or more can be counted on one hand.
You are stuck with your attributes forever, it pays to plan for the long haul.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.21 23:31:00 -
[9]
the "Best" build for a pvp char gotta be Achura with 12 perc 10 int 8 willp 6 mem and 3 char
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.21 23:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tiuwaz the "Best" build for a pvp char gotta be Achura with 12 perc 10 int 8 willp 6 mem and 3 char
Just 6 memory?
All drone skills have memory primary.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.22 00:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Tiuwaz the "Best" build for a pvp char gotta be Achura with 12 perc 10 int 8 willp 6 mem and 3 char
Just 6 memory?
All drone skills have memory primary.
for someone who really specialices in drones it might be a bit low but for most pvp chars its more than enough
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.22 03:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tiuwaz the "Best" build for a pvp char gotta be Achura with 12 perc 10 int 8 willp 6 mem and 3 char
Thats basically me with
+3 Charisma -2 perc -1 will
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haunts
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Posted - 2006.03.22 06:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild
Originally by: Tiuwaz the "Best" build for a pvp char gotta be Achura with 12 perc 10 int 8 willp 6 mem and 3 char
Thats basically me with
+3 Charisma -2 perc -1 will
What exactly are you, Brutor? and not fighter then?
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.03.22 07:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: haunts What exactly are you, Brutor? and not fighter then?
Sebiestor. Prior to Blood, my race had the highest combo of Int/Perc ingame.
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Valium Summer
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Posted - 2006.03.25 00:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Susa Ou the difference however is very minimal, and you will only see a slight difference after a year or two of play. By then, you will be quite happy in training skills that take months to train (like Adv. Starship Command and such). I also cannot stress the racial enough, while Gallente may have lower perception then the Minmatar, they gain in other places. A well rounded charater will get you further then a pure perception junky - which many people will learn in the next few months.
What is comming in the next few months?
I find this thread very imformative. This is the information I need. However nothing seems to be answered. There seems to be two camps split between balance and High perception as the best route.
I'm hoping you guys will continue this discussion!
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Lsv1
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Posted - 2006.03.25 16:40:00 -
[16]
My Achura alt is 9-3-9-9-9 because I want an all around long term which I'll eventually make my main and I want it to fly most if not all ships variably well without waiting ages on all training times but and equal amount across them all.
Except charisma
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Rockafeller
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Posted - 2006.03.25 23:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rockafeller on 25/03/2006 23:30:39 Edited by: Rockafeller on 25/03/2006 23:30:18
Originally by: Valium Summer There seems to be two camps split between balance and High perception as the best route.
I'm hoping you guys will continue this discussion!
I think you have to decide what your aiming for, as both these arguements are correct.
I fly amarr, so as pointed out above by Slink above, the highest rank skills I will be training is Gunnery and Spaceship command. Sure there is essential Engineering/Electronics/etc etc, but there is less SP to go into them (once again, not less skills to learn (I dont think), but less SP because of there rank (think T2 gunnery).
If you want to be geeky like me, make a lil table in excel, add up all the SP the different skills and place in the table by which attribute they need. Then you can see in the long run how it will all balance out - and if you put it into a percentage you can calculate exactly what your attributes should be :P
In my case, being a "perception junky" makes sense, I just wouldnt go too extreme.
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Valium Summer
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Posted - 2006.03.26 00:22:00 -
[18]
Thankyou very much for the replies.
I decided on a Khanid fighter with starting attributes:
Intel: 7 Charisma: 5 Perception: 12 Memory: 7
Willpower: 8
I created another Khanid (leadership/ecm) with starting attributes:
Intel: 8 Charisma: 8 Perception: 8 Memory: 8
Willpower: 7
What amazed me was the fighter character I created started with over 250,000 skill points and the leadership/ecm started with a paltry 13,000
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Nuri Aderynn
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Posted - 2006.03.26 03:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nuri Aderynn on 26/03/2006 04:00:07
Originally by: F'nog If you think you can get by with the Engineering/Electronics skills at IV you're sadly mistaken. They're just as important as the "combat" skills if you want to survive.
Sorry, I should have said you can get by with 'most' of them at 4. Sure Engineering, Energy Sys Ops, Energy Management and Electronics are good to get to 5, but I can't imagine a combat character wanting to train Survey, or Frequency Modulation to 5 as opposed to, say, Large Hybrid Turret to 5. Almost none of the skills in those categories are above Rank 3/4, except for the Capital Ships ones, and if and when you want to train them you'll have uber implants and advanced learnings so the initial attribute difference will be less important.
Originally by: Valium Summer There seems to be two camps split between balance and High perception as the best route.
I'm hoping you guys will continue this discussion!
It depends entirely on your purpose for the character. I have two training simultaneously, with very different goals. One is an all-rounder with skill trainings spread between Trade, Spaceship Command, Drones etc. His spaceship/gunnery requirements are 'horizontal' in that he will be flying mainly frigates/cruisers and not be going over Rank 6 or so. The other is completely 'vertical' with the sole purpose of flying Battleships to as high a skill level as possible. So apart from the low-rank learning and fitting skills the only Level 5's he will need are Perception-based skills, many of which are Rank 5 and over. In his case I maximized Perc at the expense of all the others as according to my painstaking math it will get him to his goal the fastest.
To compare the effect of attributes you should play around with the EVE Character Manager. |
Nuri Aderynn
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Posted - 2006.03.26 05:02:00 -
[20]
To illustrate, here are screen shots from EVE Character Manager skill queues for both characters. I set them up with the same skills: Drone Interfacing (Rank 5, Mem/Per), Gallente Battleship (Rank 8, Per/Wil) and Cloaking (Rank 6, Int/Mem). These are skills that a combat character would reasonably want to train to Level V and fly a variety of ships up to Battleship level.
skills.gif
For the example both character's learnings are trained to Advanced 4 and both have the same implants. The one on the left is the 'pure combat' one with starter attributes Per 13, Int 6, Mem 6, Wil 7. On the right is the 'all-rounder' with attributes Per 8, Int 8, Mem 7, Wil 8. As you'd expect there's a big difference in the time taken to train Battleship V. For Drones - a big skill category for Gallente combat characters - a Per of 13 keeps the left-hand guy on top despite a slightly lower Mem. And for Cloaking he is at a disadvantage but the difference in Battleship training makes up for it.
Keep in mind that the essential Int/Mem skills for a combat character are no higher than Rank 3. Cloaking 5 is not essential, EWar 5 is not essential. Even if you did want to train those skills to 5, the plethora of high-Rank skills in the Spaceship Command, Gunnery and Missile categories you will also presumably be training to 5 more than compensate for the Int/Mem disadvantage.
Again this illustration is for pure combat/PVP characters. If you want a more balanced skill profile then yes you will need more balanced attributes. |
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Power Bottom
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Posted - 2006.05.18 17:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Power Bottom on 18/05/2006 17:08:18 Edited by: Power Bottom on 18/05/2006 17:06:50 Edited by: Power Bottom on 18/05/2006 17:06:12 I am rerolling for a PvP character. I was planning on the Amarr Khanid Gunnery V build because it gives you 250,000 sp's at start. These are the starting attributes I: 6, C: 5, P: 14, M: 4, W:10.
After reading this post, people seem to recommend the Caldari Achura Monk; even when maxing out skills for Frigate IV, the starting xp's are only about 95,000. These are the starting attributes I: 10, C: 3, P: 12, M: 6, W:8.
In the long run, which is the better build? Even though frigate is a rank 2 and gunnery a rank 1, the Achura is still a few days behind in training behind.
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Samirol
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Posted - 2006.05.18 18:26:00 -
[22]
I have 16 int, 20 perc, 18 char, 19 wp, and 16 mem with all to advanced 4. This is a solid pvp build because I am fairly good at support and fighting skills. I can also switch professions pretty easily because my stats are well rounded, although a char with less cha is better at the moment, but that will change
Shakespearean Insults |
Power Bottom
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Posted - 2006.05.18 18:41:00 -
[23]
I am not sure how that 18 charisma is any good in pvp.
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TOGAKURE Daisuke
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Posted - 2006.05.24 09:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Power Bottom
I am rerolling for a PvP character. I was planning on the Amarr Khanid Gunnery V build because it gives you 250,000 sp's at start. These are the starting attributes I: 6, C: 5, P: 14, M: 4, W:10.
After reading this post, people seem to recommend the Caldari Achura Monk; even when maxing out skills for Frigate IV, the starting xp's are only about 95,000. These are the starting attributes I: 10, C: 3, P: 12, M: 6, W:8.
In the long run, which is the better build? Even though frigate is a rank 2 and gunnery a rank 1, the Achura is still a few days behind in training behind.
that 250k SP is around 12% of your total SP after you just finish the learning skills. Imagine what it is when you've played 6 months...
I'd go for Achura. Your occupational preferences have a high probability to change after you've played 6 months or so. You don't want to be gimped at that point. Achura is more balanced (with those attribs) than Khanid.
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Fivor
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Posted - 2006.05.24 11:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lsv1 My Achura alt is 9-3-9-9-9 because I want an all Except charisma
Yes - makes a nice starter BIG Sales BIG Lottery Eve Search
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1ron Maiden
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Posted - 2006.05.28 21:22:00 -
[26]
I wouldnt call myself a perception junkie.. But if i max out learning skills and get a +5 implant i will have 24 perception..
My problem is i dont have enough willpower/memory If i max out all my skills without implants it would look like this:
memory - 15 intelligence - 16 willpower - 17 perception - 19 charisma - 15
Something along the lines of that.
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Electric Six
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Posted - 2006.05.29 18:17:00 -
[27]
Best pvp:
warlock 7/7/37, with this build: uber lock
I've got something to put in you! |
Jon Mura
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Posted - 2006.05.29 20:29:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Electric Six Best pvp:
warlock 7/7/37, with this build: uber lock
SL Lock with felpuppy pwns that 1v1. Damn game still follows me around
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Havelcek
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:22:00 -
[29]
If you are trying to create a drone-centric character or a pure miner or something like that, then yes use one of those sub-races, but if you are rolling a main character that you plan on playing for more than a year then I would say balance is your best bet.
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Greenbolt
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Posted - 2006.06.02 20:57:00 -
[30]
There is a problem with minmaxing skills aka being a perception junkie etc... If you are going to play for a while.. you may find that you want to branch out from pure pvp and do other things.... be it gang leadership with bonuses... corp leadership tradeing or building or god forbid mining or focus on some of the intresting side skills etc...
and at that point...those other lower attributes will hurt you..
The two camps here are 1. I am a pvp junky first and formost and if thats your long term desire then min maxing is for you.
2. if your more intrested in exploring other parts of the game...or going for a character because you like the history or look of it (I use minmatar because even though they are no where near optimal I like there story better) then go for a more well rounded character.
It all depends on your playing style.
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