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Valkyrie Vixen
Viscous Logistics
9
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys,
I saw some notable corps very successfully gank capital plexing fleets. I would like to understand success behind it and how it is properly done to try and perhaps. echem.. provide some similar game content once in awhile and/or also die horribly trying :).
The biggest challenge I see that to normal c5 you can bring ~15 t3s + 2 Dreads and a triage carrier at best. I am trying to understand how do couple of dreads with support fleet blap 5+ dread fleets. I understand that support fleet can handle dreads even on their own, however I try to imagine situation in hostile escalated sleeper site against multiple dreads/webbers. How to avoid getting popped?
Therefore I got main questions. Any other advice is appreciated.
1. Once you roll into plexing fleet do you wait once site is atleast half finished or do you gank asap no matter what? 2. Assuming you got 10+ support fleet 2dreads/carrier. What plexing fleet is too big to gank? Any rule of thumb numbers? 3. I saw some guys bringing bhaalgorns/BS hulls, but I have mixed feelings about it how they can keep them alive? 4. What kind of composition should the fleet have? What's different between standard fleet pvp comp (not counting caps)? Also do you warp t3s to 0 and dreads to optimal? If you have Naglfars, do you use long range? 5. How exactly you dont die with 2 dreads to twice bigger fleet? I understand pvp vs pve fit, but given dps output, it's still hard to imagine, unless you have **** ton of neuting (BS vs Dread issue)
thanks and regards Vixen |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1288
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bhaalgorns and ECM are the most important tools. After that, make sure you have sufficient logistics to keep your fleet alive and enough dps to kill the target. +1 |
Valkyrie Vixen
Viscous Logistics
9
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Bhaalgorns and ECM are the most important tools. After that, make sure you have sufficient logistics to keep your fleet alive and enough dps to kill the target.
How do you prevent bhalgorns not to be blopped in 10 seconds after lock from dreads/loki? Just to be sure ECM is anti backup ECM? Because i can't imagine it being critical key to ganking triage plexing fleet. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1288
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
ECM anything that has webs (loki, vindicator) and you should be good. Maintain a tight orbit to further reduce the chance of dread blapping. +1 |
Caius Beriat
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
120
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Usually you'll catch site runners nicely blobbed together, thus the sub caps can orbit under the dreads guns regardless of webs.
Our fleet would essentially consist of 10+ t3's and guardians + a pvp fit Nag or Moros.
ECM primary would go on the loki's, they are **** easy to jam.
DPS primary is always whatever capital is in siege or triage as they can't receive external reps/cap. If none of the capitals are in siege/triage we lay down enough dps to force the carrier to triage. Once it's in triage it's just a case of keeping up dps and watching out for any potential blaps.
Your shield fit Nag/Moros should be able to tank their dreadnoughts especially with the crazy burst tank. The hole idea behind the cap hungry shield fit is that you get the job done in one siege cycle and GTFO. You can go balls to the wall and bring more capitals but you will close the c5 and have to scan a new exit and run the hole ball bag job of getting your caps back home. |
Valkyrie Vixen
Viscous Logistics
9
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Posted - 2014.01.14 12:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caius Beriat wrote:Usually you'll catch site runners nicely blobbed together, thus the sub caps can orbit under the dreads guns regardless of webs.
Our fleet would essentially consist of 10+ t3's and guardians + a pvp fit Nag or Moros.
ECM primary would go on the loki's, they are **** easy to jam.
DPS primary is always whatever capital is in siege or triage as they can't receive external reps/cap. If none of the capitals are in siege/triage we lay down enough dps to force the carrier to triage. Once it's in triage it's just a case of keeping up dps and watching out for any potential blaps.
Your shield fit Nag/Moros should be able to tank their dreadnoughts especially with the crazy burst tank. The hole idea behind the cap hungry shield fit is that you get the job done in one siege cycle and GTFO. You can go balls to the wall and bring more capitals but you will close the c5 and have to scan a new exit and run the hole ball bag job of getting your caps back home.
Thanks for the input. I though whole idea is already going balls to the wall and collapsing WH behind, as I hardly imagine 1 dread doing the job, unless at the site there are only 2 dreads?
Also, care to share shield moros fit? Does it necessarily have to be shield fit or could it be armor fits, assuming you bring 2 dreads and an archon. |
Caius Beriat
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
120
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Posted - 2014.01.14 13:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Valkyrie Vixen wrote:Caius Beriat wrote:Usually you'll catch site runners nicely blobbed together, thus the sub caps can orbit under the dreads guns regardless of webs.
Our fleet would essentially consist of 10+ t3's and guardians + a pvp fit Nag or Moros.
ECM primary would go on the loki's, they are **** easy to jam.
DPS primary is always whatever capital is in siege or triage as they can't receive external reps/cap. If none of the capitals are in siege/triage we lay down enough dps to force the carrier to triage. Once it's in triage it's just a case of keeping up dps and watching out for any potential blaps.
Your shield fit Nag/Moros should be able to tank their dreadnoughts especially with the crazy burst tank. The hole idea behind the cap hungry shield fit is that you get the job done in one siege cycle and GTFO. You can go balls to the wall and bring more capitals but you will close the c5 and have to scan a new exit and run the hole ball bag job of getting your caps back home. Thanks for the input. I though whole idea is already going balls to the wall and collapsing WH behind, as I hardly imagine 1 dread doing the job, unless at the site there are only 2 dreads? Also, care to share shield moros fit? Does it necessarily have to be shield fit or could it be armor fits, assuming you bring 2 dreads and an archon.
Depends what you are going for I guess, you can always have a second dread or second archon on standby if you do decide to go all in. Against farmers one dread would probably be substantial.
Most PVP shield dreads will carry armour mods in their hold should they burn through your shield tank, this should give you long enough to come out of siege and catch external reps. But bear in mind, shield fit dreads can rep for like 35k every few seconds. So unless you derp or get heavily neuted out you should be good.
As for fits, just look for Blood Union Moros losses.
And lastly, never under estimate a sizeable subcap fleet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2stqaIk19_s&list=UUqTDK5v-KtJtOtW52f7oBRA&feature=c4-overview
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Gary Bell
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
110
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Posted - 2014.01.14 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Please bear in mind with what he said that u dont want to try and gank most big alliances this is for people who use near minimum.. Some big corps run sites with like 20 dreads and can log in lots more..
So dont waste your time unless you want to seed |
HTC NecoSino
Zero Frequency Disavowed.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:Some big corps run sites with like 20 dreads
lol, what? |
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
152
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
This works whenever the target is doing something stupid.
That means it works often. |
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TXG SYNC
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
26
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Gary Bell wrote:Some big corps run sites with like 20 dreads lol, what?
I've personally observed site-running teams of this sort. Here's an excerpt from my intel report on one of them.
Quote:The corporation appears to run escalations on a weekday basis, with hole-rolling beginning at 17:00 or 17:30, and escalations beginning in earnest around 18:00. Sample escalation fleet composition: 8x Moros, 2x Archon, 4x Loki, plus various other toons apparently on standby in the POSs. They follow a "Zerg Rush" style tactic due to the Wolf-Rayet bonuses: warp in the first Archon, triage, and immediately warp in the rest of the fleet, relying on the armor bonuses of the system to keep the Archon alive while the Moroses are in warp.
Observed escalation combat group: ((long list of names))
While it's not "20 dreads", it's quite an imposing fleet to seed sufficient capitals to gank. Based on my observations over the past few months, this tactics is increasingly common. It's not the most efficient method -- their site-completion times are not substantially faster than a typical 3x Dread, 2X Archon, 1X Loki fleet -- but it's clearly effective on a defensive basis.
I've recently been analyzing the killboards of capital-gank specialists. They overwhelmingly target the "like a baws" type of minimalist escalation composition, and have an extremely effective doctrine and method against it. Just yesterday Blood Union rage-rolled for hours and managed to torch four capital escalation fleets in relatively rapid succession. Documented this on my blog here: http://splatus.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/pvp-as-a-survival-tactic/ . 98%+ efficiency rates don't lie; they came by it honestly and brutally. |
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
464
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dread Zerging FTW Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour.
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