|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5924
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:Each race has their own ESS, so there are four in total, Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar Encounter Surveillance System. An ESS allows an empire to monitor bounty-generating activities in the solar system it is deployed in. Why this is a thing is due to an on-going and ever-growing feud between the empires and Concord. Concord has decided that monitoring these bounty-generating activities (i.e. killing pirates) outside of their jurisdiction is becoming too expensive, especially with the lost income from high-sec Custom Offices. As a result, they will no longer pay the full bounty amount. There is no statistical
After Rubicon 1.1 the payout for killing pirates in Null Sec is 95% of the actual bounty. So a pirate with a bounty of 100.000 ISK will give whomever killed it 95.000 ISK after the point release.
What's the missing part of the sentence here? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5924
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not really convinced the rewards for the ESS are worth the risk, here. You're asking people to put 15% of their bounties at risk for an additional 5-10%. Given the recent interceptor changes there's virtually no way to defend you space against an interceptor gang. The interceptor gang cannot be tackled or delayed, and can buzz every ESS with enough inties that they can easily kill any ratting ship that shows up (and most ratting ships are virtually powerless against an interceptor) and if somehow your defense gang gets there, bug out.
There's also no info on how long it takes this thing to power up, which is sort of important. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5925
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Querns wrote: I think he means "how long does it take for the ESS to go from 20% to 25% bounties" bit.
This is correct. I realize it's based on the level of ratting, but I assume it can be expressed in isk or the like (100m isk in bounties to power up each 1% or the like). "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5925
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it-¦s a solo player it can take an hour or more.
Does each bounty, independent of the value have the same chance of triggering an increase? Are the increases 1%, .1%, or what? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5925
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 15:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Weaselior wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it-¦s a solo player it can take an hour or more.
Does each bounty, independent of the value have the same chance of triggering an increase? Are the increases 1%, .1%, or what? Yes and yes. Uh the second question wasn't yes/no "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5929
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
There's a lot of things here that assume they're a benefit to the locals, and are not, because this structure is geared entirely towards hostiles in interceptors. It's safe to assume the attacker is always in an interceptor: they can get through bubble camps and outrun any hostile gang and can't be caught without a massive fuckup given current game mechanics.
This means two key features that are intended to protect locals simply don't work. The bubble around the ESS is a hindrance because only ratters will get caught in it, not attackers. The interceptor will land at zero, anyone who tries to catch him will land at 15km and the only thing ratters pack that might hit an inty (warriors) are 15km away.
Additionally, the tags are supposed to be a "this is only worth it if you get out alive". You cannot kill an interceptor who declines to engage under current game mechanics. Once he has the tags, he's got the isk. Because they're so tiny, there's no effort needed to get them out.
"I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5931
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 16:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
I gotta say, this was already going to be an iffy proposition without a flat nerf to 0.0 that wasn't really required for it to function. It is not a good idea to go "we made 0.0 riskier, but look, we gave you a nerf too!" "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5931
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 16:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Enteron Anabente wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:heretic You forgot again that interceptors are nullified, didn't you? No I did not. But the heretic is good against interceptors. Lots of things are good against interceptors, when they decide not to use their invulnerable "can warp away before being locked" mode. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5933
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 16:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
The problems with this implementation basically boil down to two major issues:
1) Interceptors exist
Interceptors are currently bubble immune and cannot be locked before they warp off. They invalidate nearly any defense you'd put up to guard your ESS. A lot of the balance here assumes you can guard it, which isn't really the case. There's no real viable way to kill an interceptor before it gets there, and with the ability of the interceptor to steal, warp out, and warp back in in 40s to get its tags the inty is virtually unkillable. This may be more of an issue that giving bubble immunity to interceptors was simply a mistake, but it makes the intended balance here not work.
2) A massive inbalance in the risk/reward that makes it a bad bet
You're asking people to risk 15% of their income for a 5% boost. That's a bad bet, especially considering point 1: you can't really do anything to affect the odds. You're going to wind up in the red most of the time, and 5% is not enough for people to want to play this game. Plus, the fact you are dumb enough to deploy an ESS means you're suddenly going to get a lot more interceptors in your space and you will lose a lot more often: word will spread about the people dumb enough to drop ESS that you can steal from and interceptors will decend on your space, losing you the money you risked for the ess, and losing you the money you'd have made while you safe up because hostiles are in your ratting system.
"I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5933
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 16:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Can I drop a ESS at a POS anchoring spot, then drop a POS there and online it?
I assume a ratter could drop a ESS right by an alt's ship. If a hostile is incoming, hit the share button, burn out of the bubble and warp. No need to wait around if you hit the share button. You'd be better off training another ratter on that account and doing some 95% ESS-free ratting. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5956
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anariasis wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: This isn't a small gang objective. This is a "solo interceptors taking everything at no risk to themselves" idea.
What is it that goons think Inties are the new evil untouchable overlords that can warp to the thing (notifying everyone) and then stay there for 60 secs until they can actually loot the stuff? You don't need to stay there for 60 seconds. You didn't read the dev comments. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5956
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Major Templar wrote: Defenders have the advantage as the ones having the jumpbridges and since when is it CCPs responsibility to make your vast empire of nothing but ratters more secure? .
It's always been CCP's responsibility to balance EVE, including nullsec, correctly.
Ranger 1 wrote: My point was, it will still be far, far easier to make money in EVE than it was in the past. In fact pretty much everyone can agree that there is far too much ISK in the game, they just don't want to be one of the ones that "might" end up with their income reduced.
I disagree, and most people saying that can't defend it and generally wave vaguely at the specter of isk inflation (which has not occurred). "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5956
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: That's very true, however if you want the ISK you'll have to come back to collect it before the locals do... and it takes (oh what was it) 40 seconds or so to drop your loot.
You know the exact second you need to warp back, and can do it in an inty that is nigh-uncatchable (even when looting the can) to any ship not set up specifically to catch and kill an interceptor. It's not a meaningful burden for the interceptor. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5958
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:Did you read my post? You have stations, POSs, jumpbridges, Sov upgrades, and a great deal of other things to make wanting that space look good. If you don't like the risk of losing the deployable then don't deploy it or don't use it so far away from the front lines where your main forces are formed. Thus it comes back to, risk vs reward. Reward is more ISK risk is that you might lose it because it's not next door to your 2k staging system. I'm sorry who exactly is worried about losing the EPP itself? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5962
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I mean the basic thing I think about this is it's a neat idea, but I think the risk/reward balance is skewed, I think that you're sort of asking for trouble just slapping a flat nerf onto null instead of balancing this so people would want to risk it instead of what you've got here (trying to force them), and didn't really balance it with interceptors in mind.
I don't think you've given people a compelling case for deploying these themselves. I think hostiles will love deploying them (and their EHP will make that a hilarious griefing tactic) but I don't think that's what you intended and I think that's a sign you didn't hit the balance right. It's a neat idea though and well-balanced could be fun. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5962
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 18:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Major Templar wrote: One, not all your enemies are not allowed to post on their mains. For example, hi! OK, now with the silliness out of the way. I would say that it's mostly the Goons complaining about this right now mostly because lets be honest, the CFC are the more likely to sit there with one of these in system if anyone were to use them.
It's because we have jabber and people are passing around the link, instead of meandering over to the devblog page and noticing it like in less jabber-based alliances. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5977
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 20:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: The cartels will either make it mandatory in every system, and mandate that anyone destroying, and equally importantly, accessing a unit will be tossed from null sec, which makes this effectively a 20% tax that goes to cartel leadership. Or as predicted, inty gangs will steal everything. Either way the line member loses big.
we can just set corp ratting taxes, less effort and no chance those inty gangs steal our rightful cartel loot "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5977
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: This was talked about to the CSM. are not a majority of them from Null? Do they have a poor understanding of Null?
As for why not do L4 missions: Because that means being in high sec with all the self entitled whiners. The reason to be in Null is because you like Null.
I assume that this means the initial draft was that much worse. There was, after all, that thing that the minutes showed the CSM shouted down. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5977
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Where? Did CCP really present this to the CSM? I read the Deployables through, no mention? The minutes stated that one CCP proposal was shelved for reworking because the CSM said it sucked, but did not identify it. There were a few other things they said were presented to the CSM but NDAed the sections. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5977
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
On another note: for the new named siphons, are there bpos for these or do they drop some other way. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5977
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Weaselior wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Where? Did CCP really present this to the CSM? I read the Deployables through, no mention? The minutes stated that one CCP proposal was shelved for reworking because the CSM said it sucked, but did not identify it. can't be this one, something that has been reworked can't come out this bad. dominion sov and dominion supercaps were reworked "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5980
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 21:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:
Maybe it was NDA'd?
I have a hard time believing even our current CSMs would let something this horrible go through - but you never know.
Maybe they argued against it but got shot down by CCP?
Quote:Soniclover moved on to discuss an additional disruption feature. This feature was shelved due to CCP and CSM concerns expressed during the summit, until a more satisfactory solution could be found. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdf
Page 42 of the minutes. I'm pretty sure this was the EPP that was being discussed, given the description of the feature. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5982
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: I can't find any description of the idea that was shelved.
The one in the paragraph after that seems to be discussing an earlier iteration of siphons.
That's because there wasn't one. They deliberately did not include information on what was reworked (which is how they treated every other discussion of a potential feature that hadn't been announced as of the minutes being released). I am inferring what this was.
Kismeteer wrote: CCP always consults the CSM on their changes, especially on ones on a scale like this, correct?
One hopes! "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5984
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:In Rubicon 1.0 you added 3 more structures and now you are preparing 3 more... The CSM minutes said there were a total of 12 planned. Dunno if that includes siphon variants. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6013
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
You need to remove the 5% nerf from 0.0 ratting for this.
As it exists, this is a poorly balanced module that MIGHT get fixed but won't be used in its current state. It's fine to have a module that's not really used and needs work in game to get it to where someone would want to use it. It's not fine to have an across-the-board nerf that requires the ESS to be in a usable state when it's unlikely to be one because then it's just a nerf with a fix coming SOON (tm) and we all know how that story ends. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6015
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Also I'm sure this got lost in the ESS discussion but: where do the blueprints for the new siphons come from? Are they bpos sold in empire, or bpcs dropped from somewhere? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6015
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 18:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Weaselior wrote:Also I'm sure this got lost in the ESS discussion but: where do the blueprints for the new siphons come from? Are they bpos sold in empire, or bpcs dropped from somewhere? I don't think there are blueprints, I believe I read it's buy direct from the Empires themselves with no player production involved. Which is another thing we (players and CCP) have been working to get rid of for a long time so shouldn't be happening again. Those are ESS, not the hybrid and rote siphons. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: If you use an ESS as a ratter your income will be higher than pre-1.1. If hostiles enter the system you have various choices in how to respond, some of them can lead to fights, it-¦s up to you. Don-¦t assume that anyone that stumbles into the system will automatically be able to steal everything, again, the likelihood of this is up to you. It-¦s only a nerf if you choose it to be.
The ESS as implemented is garbage and you will probably not be getting what you'd get pre-1.1 because word will quickly get out about the morons who actually are dumb enough to use an ESS and you'll get camped and robbed left and right because you're the only ones dumb enough in five regions to do it. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Your own economist says otherwise.
Quote:The next graph showed the money supply. Overall, the money supply is evening out--changes to systems have reduced the ISK supply, so average ISK in active wallets is stable as of November 2012 and the maximum amount may even be peaking. While Mike points out that the leveling-out at the top of the graph is very short, Dr. EyjoG responded that it was the first plateau visible at all. Sinks and faucets are fairly balanced right now, with a bit more faucet than sink to allow for economic growth.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM8_August_Summit_Minutes.pdf
This explanation doesn't hold water and you've published something to that effect. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6028
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. ... This is subjective. Some will feel the risk is not worth the gain, some will feel the gain is worth the risk.
No it's not. You just admitted, in this post you've deliberately balanced it so it's not worth the risk (because you're assuming it will lead to a reduction in isk overall). So no, the risk isn't worth the reward and you know it. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6038
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: How out of date are those minutes again?
They are the most recent minutes and there has been no significant changes to nullsec ratting between then and now that would suppose it was out of date. SoniClover is wrong about isk faucets being a problem, and I know that because the independent CCP employee whose job it is to look at the data and understand what it means reviewed the data closely and said so. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6042
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: The same independant employee that said tech was fine?
I don't know, you find me a specific quote like I found and we'll discuss. But even assuming you find one (and I doubt it, I assume you've got no idea what you're talking about) tech was not an economic problem, which is EyjoG's specialty, it was a game balance problem, which is not. SoniClover claimed the bounties were an economic problem, and he's wrong. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6042
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 00:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:It's absolutely stupid to argue with a Dev about whether or not he's correct in that a huge amount of ISK (bounties) come in from nullsec.
They have the numbers. We don't.
That doesn't make the ESS any better of an idea, though.
This game needs more simplified and streamlined. understandable mechanics.
Not weird, arbitrary oddities... CCP has the numbers. That doesn't mean SoniClover looked at them, or understood what they mean. That's why I'm pointing to a CCP employee who did look at the numbers, did understand what they mean, and said the opposite of what SoniClover is saying here.
I don't have the numbers, but EyjoG does. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6062
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 02:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote: stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about
Constructive posting at it's finest. Would it strain you overmuch to elaborate on what I said in the last two pages or so that is incorrect? Or would that be too hard? nothing you said had any merit to elaborate on it was just wild conjecture, all of which was wrong, which i did point out and you just bounced to new wrong wild conjecture "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6086
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 14:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: You're comparing apples and oranges here. Eyjo is talking about the overall balance of faucets and sinks. I'm talking about the amount of ISK entering the game through NPC bounties.
That is very far from apples and oranges. You're talking about a faucet (and suggesting it is disturbing the overall balance of faucets and sinks) and EyjoG is talking about the overall balance of faucets and sinks. That's the exact same thing and when you're making decisions based on theories about the overall balance of faucets and sinks why on earth are you not looping in the guy who looks at that and saying it's not even relevant?
CCP SoniClover wrote: I feel I need to clarify what I said, as it seems some people are misunderstanding it, I'm not saying that the ESS is intended to reduce inflation. I'm saying we want to be careful about how much higher than the current 100% we can go. So it's not about trying to reduce the ISK entering the game through NPC bounties, it is making sure it doesn't increase too much.
It will decrease. You've guaranteed it will decrease. If you're worried about too much of an increase (a) talk to ErjoG about what increases are and are not a problem and (b) use the LP idea instead that doesn't just flatly nerf 0.0 on the theory that SOON(tm) the ESS will make up for it. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6098
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This biggest issue with the above EHP and RF suggestions is that it moves the ESS module from "small gang" (5-10) to medium gang (10-20) or larger territory. An alliance does NOT need a full hour to respond, and giving them this much time will result in a very heavy response. Really, the time between the attack on the RF and the payout on the RF should be on the order of 10-20 minutes. This is plenty of time for an alliance to gather the troops and defend it, without bringing in the whole shebang!
I don't think you'd see much of a difference in response between 10-20m reinforced and 1h, in both cases it's going to be bored people around the area. But that's a good reason to make it the shorter time, alliance gets time to respond, attackers don't need to twiddle their thumbs for an hour. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6103
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Trust me, I vocally support revamping Sov. I want a use it or have it easily taken from you game play. I want some smaller-scale, objectives, etc. But that doesn't mean the ESS is a fail concept. It can still be a small scale conflict driver, which is a very good thing!
the conflict just needs to not be "this ****** in our alliance put up an ESS, kick him out" "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6111
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
greiton starfire wrote:why do these small gangs think they should pose a serious non-ignorable threat to groups over 5000X their size. there's a difference between the people who think they should be able to affect sov through small-gang warfare and the people who think they should be able to inconvenience individuals in that sov enough to get a fight "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6118
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: POS and small fights don't work so well. For siphons to generate small-scale fights, they needed to be deployable at 500+ km's from the POS (i.e. outside of POS weapon range, but still on grid).
They can't really ever generate fights, they're just not designed in a way that lets fights happen. Even if you have to bring a ship to blap them instead of using pos guns, there's nothing that would ever get both parties on grid at the same time except sheer luck. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6176
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
I posted this in the other thread, but thanks for taking feedback into account so quickly and turning around a new version this quickly, that couldn't have been easy and this is a huge improvement. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6176
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Adding a third form of distribution currency doesn't alleviate any of my complaints: that it's too complicated/convoluted.
It just makes it more complex. Coupled with the fact that it puts the LP in the can and not in my wallet is a slam dunk for fail.
Why would I have my /loyalty points/ put in a can? That goes against the entire premise of LP - that they are an untradable good, and represent services rendered to a specific faction.
Pressing the "take all" button does not to me sound like a service rendered.
I still can't figure out how such an idea actually made it this far...
I read this as the loyalty points are not in the can, they are awarded directly to you. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6176
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Turelus wrote: More ideas on how to make the ESS great.
Is there any way CCP could allow NullSec entities to rent LP stores for their stations/outposts as well? maybe like a per month office fee to the Navy. It seems a shame that we need to fly back to Empire to cash this LP in and it would be a damn amazing update if we could buy our implants in our space.
Given what CCP has said in the past about the horrors involved in coding mission agents into outposts I assume this is technically infeasible especially for a point release. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6179
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 16:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Quote:* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases.
Is this pre-reduction or post-reduction? i.e. if I kill a rat worth 1m isk now, but 800k with the ESS, for the LP reward formula is it worth 1m or 800k? "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6200
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 19:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Takada Ishikela wrote:FU CCP, and **** your ****** broken game, i canceled two 3 year old accounts, Star Citizen here i come. if you liked incarna you're sure to like star citizen! "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6201
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.
Much better indeed, but still not efficient as a potential harassment tool and it still feels and sounds forced being that it's a 0.0 tweak without a deeper rework of the system. The reasons it's not efficient as a small gangs objective:
- Day to day 0.0 is hardly if at all worth defending against anything that doesn't threaten the sov level
- Ratters don't man up to defend a system when a system is roamed in, they're there to rat, not risk pvp assets
- With no RF timer, no attack notification and low HP on the thing, the best you'll achieve with this is the same as if you were AFK cloaking: everyone stops ratting until offenders go away.
- If the ratters themselves have deployed an ESS, they can hit the Share All option from an alt at the structure when they see a neutral come in - there will rarely be something to steal
Though I don't think there are concrete ways to positively change this though without a complete overhaul of 0.0 and sovspace particularly :( It's intended to be deployed by ratters, not hostiles. The last point is fixed by the timer they added: they're tackled for 20 seconds if they hit share all, and I think they have to live that long. Plus any account is better off ratting making money instead of sitting on the ESS.
MeBiatch wrote:if i were trying to take from the ESS and i was a negative... i would just do share all as it would ensure i get some ISK and it only takes 20 seconds.
perhaps it should be standings based... if you have negative standings then you can only take all and not have the option to share
You'd have contributed nothing so you'd get nothing. Share all gives everyone what they contributed, not an equal share of the pot. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6201
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So now you **** over every empire mission runner? Wow. you are some piece of work.
I think it's great CCP listened to our ideas and implemented the LP bonus. It was a great idea and dramatically improves the ESS, and offers a good way for CCP to bring the reward up in 0.0 where it needs to be in the future without worrying about isk inflation. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6215
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 15:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Because the next step you whiners will get done is a campaign to exchange Empire LP to faction pirate LP, like you can exchange Concord LP for empire LP.
you realize nearly every post you make is whining over how a change will impact your isk/hour
do you see any irony in calling anyone else a whiner Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6215
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 17:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Qalix wrote:I rarely come right and out say it, but this is quite possibly the dumbest change I've ever seen. You're not reining in nullsec ratters, you're buffing them. ESS went from activity disruption to activity bonus. Just as it should be. Nullsec ratting has not had the level of reward it should have given the risk for some time. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
|
|
|