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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:11:00 -
[121] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:trader joes Ichinumi wrote:People already don't rat when a null cloaker is in system. I was talking about leaving your own AFK cloaky alt on the module.
Someone is going to say "Opportunity cost" soon. It would be better isk to train that alt up and dual box ratting than it would be to waste an entire account sitting there slapping a button. This is not to say someone isn't going to do it.... but thats the answer for someone who's min/maxing isk gain. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:12:00 -
[122] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote:Fix Lag wrote:Jim Era wrote:o.O I've been away for too long, wat is this you speak of. If you can get past the very poorly written devblog, CCP's cutting nullsec ratter income by a minimum of 5% across the board and attempting to force a really, really, REALLY poorly designed mechanic down peoples' throats. It's so bad neither the defenders or offenders want to use it. That's how wretchedly horrible it is. And the blanket cut with no justification is a load of rotting Icelandic shark s hit. If nobody gonna use it , wy is there a problem null bear?
Because then the whole venture becomes another arbitrary nerf to nullsec income. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
629
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:20:00 -
[123] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote:Fix Lag wrote:Jim Era wrote:o.O I've been away for too long, wat is this you speak of. If you can get past the very poorly written devblog, CCP's cutting nullsec ratter income by a minimum of 5% across the board and attempting to force a really, really, REALLY poorly designed mechanic down peoples' throats. It's so bad neither the defenders or offenders want to use it. That's how wretchedly horrible it is. And the blanket cut with no justification is a load of rotting Icelandic shark s hit. If nobody gonna use it , wy is there a problem null bear?
Because its being rolled out with a flat 5% nerf to all bounties in null. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:26:00 -
[124] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:So you really have nothing? I mean your main argument here seems to be based around "I don't really like it either, but I'm offended that you don't like it enough to say something". Well ok I guess you can sprint with that and see how far you can get. It's your raging dissatisfaction with the inefficacy of a comparatively insignificant functional element like this that makes you such a juicy, squishy target to pick apart. Seriously, they tried something to make ratting more of an "activity hub" process, and it isn't sitting well. We get it. It's not your bag of tea. But the sun will come out tomorrow.
Down the road, you're going to feel pretty silly about all this 5% income reduction nonsense while everyone is off having fun with the new scan and cyno stuff.
Nullbears are vicious. They have important spacemoney and astrodollars to make. I just didn't expect that from the same organization that once showed us you can conquer people in noob ships. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:27:00 -
[125] - Quote
But you haven't picked anything apart? I mean coming across as a pedant really isn't a goal you should be shooting for. And once again you are adding extra layers to the argument that don't even exist.
I say a single deployable is crap, a flat decline in ratting income is bad, and suddenly I'm against all deployables ever? I'll talk for me, you talk for you.
As far as isk generation goes, I like to have enough to continue the "Entertaining" bits of Eve for me which thankfully isn't much, but yes I find it obnoxious that an already fairly small income stream is being nerfed even by a small amount forcing people to stare at red X's even longer in a game just to actually... you know enjoy the game. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:pedant a person who overemphasizes minor details
a person who adheres to book knowledge without regard to common sense
a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning
Between your ISK flow charts, your tears over your 5% lost income, and your lack of acknowledgement of the intent behind the implementation of these structures, you're 3 for 3.
Well done, pedant. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:32:00 -
[127] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:pedant a person who overemphasizes minor details
Like getting stuck on other deployables which aren't even a part of the argument at hand? |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:33:00 -
[128] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Like getting stuck on other deployables which aren't even a part of the argument at hand? Someone is going to have to yank you kicking and screaming out of your tunnel eventually.
I'm doing what I can.
And I'm doing God's work, sir.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:34:00 -
[129] - Quote
I mean you are literally mad that I dislike a change that you don't particularly think is good. You can't really start from a more ridiculous base argument than that. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:37:00 -
[130] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you.
This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach.
Grab a beer and join me.
Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash. |
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:38:00 -
[131] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:Like getting stuck on other deployables which aren't even a part of the argument at hand? Someone is going to have to yank you kicking and screaming out of your tunnel eventually. I'm doing what I can. And I'm doing God's work, sir.
I'm not discussing those though. I don't feel the need to discuss those because I have no inherent problem with them. I mean I realize this is difficult for slow people to get but I generally don't complain about the things I like, nor do I bother bringing them up in discussions that they aren't really even related too.
I like the Stratios, I think it's can be a fun ship and a welcome addition to the game that has been lacking new covert ships for a while now. But I don't feel the need to bring it up in a discussion about nerfing nullsec income or creating a completely unrelated module that has iffy mechanics. Why do you? Is it ADD or something? |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:So yeah highsec guys how would you like a 5% increase in your income? It sounds great right?
Nah, no thanks. Enjoy your new POS, though. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you. This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach. Grab a beer and join me. Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash.
Ah the puppetmaster argument. How nostalgic.
VVV beaten. Get on my level. :getin: |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:40:00 -
[134] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you. This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach. Grab a beer and join me. Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash.
ahaha the puppetmasta defense :shobon:
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:41:00 -
[135] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I mean you are literally mad No, that's you. This is my equivalent of meditation or a relaxing walk on the beach. Grab a beer and join me. Or wake up to the fact that I am stringing you along like a chipmunk on a tiny leash. Ah the puppetmaster argument. How nostalgic.
No dumb argument can ever be wrong if I say I was merely trolling him, it means I win! |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:42:00 -
[136] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Ah the puppetmaster argument. How nostalgic. Oh don't give me that crap. It's one of the cornerstones of being a Goon.
What continues to amuse me is that none of you have figured out how to earn that 105% yet. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2284
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:43:00 -
[137] - Quote
I don't rat generally. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
369
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:46:00 -
[138] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I don't rat generally. Well, what I've learned from this thread is that, although you are Goonswarm, you have no clue how to exploit (make use of) these new deployables, and that interceptors befuddle and terrify you.
If that's what you were going for, well done, mission successful. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
817
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hey you missed all of Fourth District! We're relevant too! Or did we just get filed under CVA again, because there is a difference! Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
QproQ
Monolithic Juggernaut
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:52:00 -
[140] - Quote
I fail to see how this is any different than the addition of MTUs for mission runners. The MTU provides a potential increase in efficiency (income increase), balanced by the increased interference from outside parties, forcing coordination between corpmates.
The ESS provides a potential increase in income balanced by the chance of interference, forcing coordination between alliance members.
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Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:57:00 -
[141] - Quote
QproQ wrote:I fail to see how this is any different than the addition of MTUs for mission runners. The MTU provides a potential increase in efficiency (income increase), balanced by the increased interference from outside parties, forcing coordination between corpmates.
The ESS provides a potential increase in income balanced by the chance of interference, forcing coordination between alliance members.
The difference is that this started with a 5% income nerf, before anything else. MTUs didn't.
As a ratting module, they are stupid as hell, because they immediately put 20% of the bounty (old bounty) at risk, for a paltry 5% POTENTIAL (not immediate, it scales over time) increase in ISK. This does not include the 30mill risk you took just planting the thing (any ******* can just shoot it). The risk/ISK ratio is all wrong.
The MTU helps you scoop stuff more efficiently, and people can interfere with it. You sit on top of it and if you're paying attention, can scoop the loot/MTU itself before someone gets on grid to mess with you. Not even in the same league.
Offensively, they are stupid too.
If you go into enemy space and drop one of these, the ratters will just dock up. They aren't going to feed your coffers.
They'll wait till you leave, and then blow the thing up. 30 mill down the crapper, and no fight for you.
Its just dumb. |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
370
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:02:00 -
[142] - Quote
QproQ wrote:forcing coordination between alliance members And God forbid a vast, ancient 0.0 alliance should have to debase themselves by engaging in such awfulness to earn 5% more than they are now. Seriously, the Goons in this thread remind me of the old Phoenix Alliance more than they do the old Goonswarm. When did you guys trade Slowcat and deployable tears for the wretched and wonderful bulldozers you once were? That 5% either way is your incentive for not being intergalactic loners (again, the irony is almost painful).
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2285
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:03:00 -
[143] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:I don't rat generally. Well, what I've learned from this thread is that, although you are Goonswarm, you have no clue how to exploit (make use of) these new deployables, and that interceptors befuddle and terrify you. If that's what you were going for, well done, mission successful.
I know how to make use of several of the deployables, the utility of this one however is questionable due to being a higher opportunity cost than just not dealing with it. I don't need to rat to know this.
Interceptors do not befuddle or terrify me, they are simply imbalanced in the current pass due to the inability to force engagement with them and remove them from space in general or the area of operations. If anything I'd say that you not understanding the core tenants of what the problem is with nano'd kiting ceptors is either due to your own lack of knowledge of game mechanics or at best a low grade troll v0v. At the moment due to the changes in nullification of that particular style of ship my gang and interceptor gangs generally just stare at eachother or watch eachother pass by. They can't engage us because we'd kill them if they commit. We can't catch and engage them because it's mechanically impossible unless someone screws up so bad that they forget where the "Jump" button is.
The only other ship who's only counter while traveling is pilot stupidity is a covert/nullified T3, but even they fall prey to bad luck on occasion. I don't particularly like them either. I think travel should be dangerous in nullsec for everyone if they aren't clever.
I mean if I want a throwaway cyno that I know will get there every time I'll use an interceptor now. Something seems wrong about that. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:04:00 -
[144] - Quote
QproQ wrote:I fail to see how this is any different than the addition of MTUs for mission runners. The MTU provides a potential increase in efficiency (income increase), balanced by the increased interference from outside parties, forcing coordination between corpmates.
The ESS provides a potential increase in income balanced by the chance of interference, forcing coordination between alliance members.
If you don't use the MTU do you have a 5% nerf to income?
Anoms are already outclassed by level 4s and with this latest nerf there is no reason at all to make your isk in null sec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
I'm so terribly sorry we let you down Logical. It hurts me deeply that we have become lesser in your eyes.
I will immediately retreat to Syndicate and go into isolation to reflect on my failings. In time, perhaps I will recover enough to be the snarling monsterbee you deserve.
One day, maybe you'll be able to "grr Goons" unironically again. Time will tell. |
QproQ
Monolithic Juggernaut
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:06:00 -
[146] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:QproQ wrote:I fail to see how this is any different than the addition of MTUs for mission runners. The MTU provides a potential increase in efficiency (income increase), balanced by the increased interference from outside parties, forcing coordination between corpmates.
The ESS provides a potential increase in income balanced by the chance of interference, forcing coordination between alliance members.
If you don't use the MTU do you have a 5% nerf to income?
If using the MTU is considered the status quo now, then yes. Yes it is.
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Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
372
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:07:00 -
[147] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:I'm so terribly sorry we let you down Logical. It hurts me deeply that we have become lesser in your eyes.
I will immediately retreat to Syndicate and go into isolation to reflect on my failings. In time, perhaps I will recover enough to be the snarling monsterbee you deserve.
One day, maybe you'll be able to "grr Goons" unironically again. Time will tell. Best post in this thread.
GÖÑ |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
442
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:09:00 -
[148] - Quote
Quote:They can't engage us because we'd kill them if they commit. We can't catch and engage them Gangs picking their fights based on mobility and engagement profile. The horror.
Somehow, most of 0.0 and the entire population of lowsec has managed to not lose their **** over interceptors.
edit: every time there's a minor change to nullsec, or some other area of space gets a boost to income, people say there's no reason to earn isk in null anymore. And yet there seems to be no particular lack of people lining up to pay for the privilege of roleplaying space peons. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
449
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:15:00 -
[149] - Quote
ESS is ********, how did CSM even approve that is beyond me. I'm not sure how CCP is planning to incentivize people to undock and make money actively in 0.0, making themselves vulnerable and providing PvP content when all they do is actually nerf the income. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:19:00 -
[150] - Quote
QproQ wrote:
If using the MTU is considered the status quo now, then yes. Yes it is.
No you don't, your bounties stay as they are. We are face with either a 5% nerf or deploy a new structure that will reduce your income by 20% for maybe a 5% gain that can be easily stolen in a minute. Given that most ratting systems have few people in them it means just about any small gang is guaranteed to steal that isk unless someone ties up an alt to baby sit the structure which could be earning them a lot more isk.
So we have a nerf to our income and the only way to avoid it is for someone to put up a 30 mil structure which is very easily raided (you will get 80% of your current income) and ties up an alt which would earn you more isk than this structure will ever make you by far.
There is nothing good about this. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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