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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Sixx Spades
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.01.18 08:26:00 -
[121] - Quote
Re'doubt wrote:
Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.
No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part.
Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future. |
Re'doubt
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
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Posted - 2014.01.18 08:42:00 -
[122] - Quote
Sixx Spades wrote:Re'doubt wrote:
Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.
No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part.
Two way street bro. It's just pilot error you guys aren't catching us and adapting.
I'm going to use that excuse more. Pilot error. I like that. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
166
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 11:47:00 -
[123] - Quote
I must say I have never understood this idea that gate camps must, on principle, be able to stop absolutely everything that comes through regardless of the skill of the pilot or nature of the ship.
Maybe CCP should just give SOV owners some sort of null-concord style NPC protection and be done with it. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1
The Craniac
152
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 12:32:00 -
[124] - Quote
Sixx Spades wrote:Re'doubt wrote:
Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.
No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part.
Pods have an align less than that, a smaller sig, and can be caught, it's just a matter of luck at some point. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1060
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 12:42:00 -
[125] - Quote
Re'doubt wrote:Sixx Spades wrote:Re'doubt wrote:
Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.
No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part. Two way street bro. It's just pilot error you guys aren't catching us and adapting. I'm going to use that excuse more. Pilot error. I like that.
You are wrong. It takes minimum 2 seconds to lock and point something. It takes you less than 2 seconds to warp. |
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations
Surely You're Joking
17
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Posted - 2014.01.18 12:53:00 -
[126] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Sixx Spades wrote:Re'doubt wrote:
Remote sebo'ed frigates can already catch our 1.9ish align time maledictions.
No they can't and you're absolutely delusional if you truly believe that. If they DO happen to get caught, it is due to pilot error on the Malediction's part. Pods have an align less than that, a smaller sig, and can be caught, it's just a matter of luck at some point.
Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.
|
Meyr
SiN Corp
Black Core Alliance
258
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Posted - 2014.01.18 14:40:00 -
[127] - Quote
After bashing Fozzie for many of the other changes he's proposing, I'll go on record as supporting this one.
That said, I'll ALSO go on record as stating that you were warned about this, your testing methods suck, and you obviously need further training in understanding the consequences of your proposed changes.
You've literally known FOR YEARS that the server operates in 1-second ticks, it was obvious from your ship fits, AND YET YOU DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING?!?!
What the hell is passing for QA there in CCP, and, more specifically, in your department? You absolutely cannot tell me that you don't have modeling software that works just like EFT to test your proposed changes, and get a numerical value about warp times - your post justifying your proposed changes to Capital Turret Tracking implies that it exists. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1060
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
Meyr wrote: You absolutely cannot tell me that you don't have modeling software that works just like EFT to test your proposed changes, and get a numerical value about warp times
They actually use pyfa |
Meyr
SiN Corp
Black Core Alliance
258
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Posted - 2014.01.18 14:46:00 -
[129] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Meyr wrote: You absolutely cannot tell me that you don't have modeling software that works just like EFT to test your proposed changes, and get a numerical value about warp times They actually use pyfa
Which just goes to show that SOMEONE isn't doing their job. |
Sixx Spades
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
174
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 16:17:00 -
[130] - Quote
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.
Pods aren't bubble immune.
Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future. |
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May Arethusa
Summary Executions
Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:48:00 -
[131] - Quote
Rubicon: "There's no turning back." Apparently there is.
"Tactics to chip away at the behemoths have surfaced, allowing small fleets of troublemakers to become a concern for alliance strongholds."
We embraced the change, and this is how you repay us.
Fast aligning interceptors can be caught, and are insanely weak against anything other than their desired targets. The tactics they employ are easily countered, if anyone had bothered to try. A handful were learning, the rest were tabbing back to EVE with a dejected sigh.
What will this change do? Not much, because unlike the ratters and campers it benefits, we'll adapt again. Looking forward to your next patch to try and nerf those fits. |
Zircon Dasher
333
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 21:19:00 -
[132] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:Rubicon: "There's no turning back." Apparently there is.
"Tactics to chip away at the behemoths have surfaced, allowing small fleets of troublemakers to become a concern for alliance strongholds."
We embraced the change, and this is how you repay us.
Dude. You know that's advertising right? You don't really expect any change to threaten the powers that be do you?
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.01.18 22:04:00 -
[133] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I must say I have never understood this idea that gate camps must, on principle, be able to stop absolutely everything that comes through regardless of the skill of the pilot or nature of the ship.
Maybe CCP should just give SOV owners some sort of null-concord style NPC protection and be done with it.
We aren't asking for automatic protection or guaranteed safety. We're asking for combat pilots actively seeking to defend space the conquered, own, and pay bills for to be able to do so.
Literally none of this argument is about the actual act of killing ratters. Nobody here cares if ratters die when a combat ship catches them. The entire complaint from TEST is now that our defense gangs might actually be able to interfere with them in our own space. |
Jafit
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
394
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:42:00 -
[134] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:Literally none of this argument is about the actual act of killing ratters. Nobody here cares if ratters die when a combat ship catches them. The entire complaint from TEST is now that our defense gangs might actually be able to interfere with them in our own space.
The problem is that you can't seem to conceive of a home defense gang taking any form other than an instalocking gatecamp. There are plenty of ways already detailed ITT for how you can mount a more effective defense, you just choose not to.
Apparently it's not a real home defense 'fleet' if CowWarrior can't run his 5000 scan res multibox gatecamp. |
Re'doubt
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:00:00 -
[135] - Quote
We aren't saying that interceptors don't need some kind of tweak. We just don't want to see the malediction and crow nerfed into oblivion. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2792
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:Rubicon: "There's no turning back." Apparently there is.
All it takes is a riot...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Optimo Sebiestor
Intentionally Dense
Easily Excited
222
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Posted - 2014.01.19 13:01:00 -
[137] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Swiftstrike1 wrote:Here's a hypothetical question for you CCP. In your opinion, what sort of scan resolution should be required to catch an interceptor after it has just jumped through a stargate? That depends...... how much effort has the interceptor pilot put into making his ship fast & uncatchable..... Or has he shield tanked it & plated it to make it slow & sluggish. Or to put it better. How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood. no ship should be uncatchable.
Then should look on the astero as well |
JD No7
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
84
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:11:00 -
[138] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:JD No7 wrote:
This. As it stands they are virtually uncatchable, even with sensor boosts etc. Stupidly easy to get a cyno into system now.
But doesn't that get you those sought after fights?
As others say no ship should be uncatchable. If you are rocking 3000-5000 scan res and still can't catch the ship because the server code won't let you, that is broken. |
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
124
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:19:00 -
[139] - Quote
Praal wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Every Interceptor is getting a slight agility nerf in this pass, with the missile ceptors (Crow and Malediction) getting bigger changes than the others since they have proven extremely powerful in other ways (especially in groups). On average this will result in a 10% longer align time for the class.
The balance of having Interceptors with more speed (and warp speed and bubble immunity) and Faction Frigates with better agility is one we believe will help keep the frigate pvp landscape diverse and exciting.
Agility (as a modifier on mass) affects the turning time (often measured as align time) of ships. Lower is better.
The align times listed below are for a hypothetical character with 0 skills. This balance needs to come from the interceptors' combat strength, not their tackling ability. An interceptor's primary job is to catch things and pin them down, not to kill things. With this in mind the nerf should come in form of reduced damage. This would lead to fleets that combine fast, agile interceptors to catch enemies with other frigates (such as assault frigs) to deliver the damage.
This is the voice of reason, CCP. Listen to it for once.
|
Scuzzy Logic
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
124
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Posted - 2014.01.19 15:23:00 -
[140] - Quote
Re'doubt wrote:
Again, I repeat my last post, don't down on missile interceptors and kill their ability to tackle and hold a point by reducing their agility. They are already paper thin and don't do much DPS. Why are we even revisiting this original change when CCP has bigger things to figure out like sov mechanics, POS quality of living, and other ships to still rebalance. Why are we as players/customers getting features we DO NOT want and DO NOT need? All these changes cause MORE problems rather than solve anything. These new changes serve only to break more things in this game.
Because the blocs don't want that. The blocs complained about 50-frig roams killing their ratters.
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
Last Resort.
574
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:47:00 -
[141] - Quote
Sixx Spades wrote:MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.
Pods aren't bubble immune.
Nor Smartbomb imune... And How about put FoF missiles some use???
Please read these!
> New POS system
> New SOV system |
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:45:00 -
[142] - Quote
I like my 1.9s Align time ceptor, and it having an MSE, and not needing Istabs to make it work. But this nerf is pretty reasonable. Its not going to make sub 2s ceptors impossible, but it is going to quite appropriately increase the tradeoffs for fitting one. Removing bubble immunity means that a dictor spewing bubbles behind a fleeing fleet totally defeats ceptors. It also means that those 10 T2 Large bubbles on your ratting system gate give you plent of time to run from ceptors. The nullification is needed.
Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
168
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 00:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
Secret Squirrell wrote:
Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants
I can probably maintain 1.9 on my travel 'ceptors by replacing one or more nanos with istabs.
I have no real issue with the content of this change.
The main problem is the apparent reason ... that whiney null bears got upset and threw tantrums.
|
JD No7
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
85
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 01:19:00 -
[144] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Sixx Spades wrote:MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.
Pods aren't bubble immune. Nor Smartbomb imune... And How about put FoF missiles some use???
Smartbombs can work but easily avoided using pings and checking if the Smartbomber is on your alignment.
What drugs are you smoking talking about FOFs? You know they only shoot people that aggress you right? |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
614
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 01:55:00 -
[145] - Quote
ZheoTheThird wrote:And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:
Sounds like a good reason to nerf them 
Problem: ceptors are going deep into Goon space getting past their camps and killing their ratters.
Fix: just remove bubble immunity |
Lin Fatale
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.01.20 14:11:00 -
[146] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Secret Squirrell wrote:
Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants
I can probably maintain 1.9 on my travel 'ceptors by replacing one or more nanos with istabs. I have no real issue with the content of this change. The main problem is the apparent reason ... that whiney null bears got upset and threw tantrums.
the reason is
that you want an uncatchable, 6k fast, 50k range, run away from every possible risk crowfleet
which CCP deliverd as a workaround to break trough 50 T2 bubbles on every gate in 0sec
Cuz they tend to introduce workarounds and small addons and refuse to think about the root cause
|
Franky Saken
Mafia Redux
Phobia.
24
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Posted - 2014.01.20 14:14:00 -
[147] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Quote:CLAW
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.15 (+0.15) / 4.8 (+0.23)
=============================================================================
STILETTO
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.5 (+0.4) / 4.95 (+0.57) And this it what we got in Rubicon 1.0. Quote:CLAW
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 475 / 3(-0.09) / 1100000(-26000) / 4.57s(-0.25) (was 4.82)
=============================================================================
STILETTO
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 435 / 3.1 / 1020000(-80000) / 4.38s(-0.35) (was 4.73)
I'm confused. So you made them more agile 3 month ago, and now you are reverting the changes to: Claw, align time 4.8 from 4.57 from 4.82. What? Stiletto, align time 4.95 from 4.38 from 4.73. Really? What I see proposed here is making Inties worse shuttes AND worse Interceptors, which is bad. Please reconsider the latter, thank you.
Just quoting this as it is the most important thing in this thread. The interceptors are getting worse than they were before their buff all for the gain of bubble immunity which was never the problem in the first place and fully takes away careful piloting and taking a risk by warping straight to gate.
Mass reduction sounds legit but is probably too bug-prone to implement. |
Gjor
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
3
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:37:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Fozzie,
I am not happy with this tweak. Interceptor Align time and agility are fine. Where they are now is working and does not need any attention. Interceptors are currently being caught on gates at will. This might be the straw... |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1213
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:49:00 -
[149] - Quote
Good change.
The Tears Must Flow |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:51:00 -
[150] - Quote
Agility goes up.
Align time goes up.
Sounds legit.
Someone fail math? Or just plain lack of logic. |
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