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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
710
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Posted - 2014.01.18 09:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Problem (?): Incursion sites are heavily farmed in high sec CCPs provided solution: Kill the mom to stop farming. CCPs provided incentive: Double site payout, loot drop.
Double site payout is too small to be meaningful. HS Moms aren't killed for the payout, they are killed out of spite, or to control spawn timers. The loot is most often not worth much, even when a nightmare BPC drops, that is worth less than a billion, and that only amounts to 25 million per person in a 40 person fleet, ie, less than the payout for 1 HS site. Very very very rarely, its a shadow BPC, which could potentially double the payout.
Basically, I think we need more incentive to kill the mom. A simple buff to site payout is inelegant, and would be very hard to balance to keep the ISK printing from being to high, yet still attractive relative to farming sites.
So, a non-ISK print incentive: Faction standing gains. Kill a Mom in Amarr space - gain Amarr faction standing (with no derived standings toward others, all faction dislike sansha, so Minmatar shouldn't get mad at you for killing a mom) Perhaps some sec status gain too. But again - ONLY for killing the MOM, not for running normal sites. |
Seranova Farreach
613
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Posted - 2014.01.18 12:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Problem (?): Incursion sites are heavily farmed in high sec CCPs provided solution: Kill the mom to stop farming. CCPs provided incentive: Double site payout, loot drop.
Double site payout is too small to be meaningful. HS Moms aren't killed for the payout, they are killed out of spite, or to control spawn timers. The loot is most often not worth much, even when a nightmare BPC drops, that is worth less than a billion, and that only amounts to 25 million per person in a 40 person fleet, ie, less than the payout for 1 HS site. Very very very rarely, its a shadow BPC, which could potentially double the payout.
Basically, I think we need more incentive to kill the mom. A simple buff to site payout is inelegant, and would be very hard to balance to keep the ISK printing from being to high, yet still attractive relative to farming sites.
So, a non-ISK print incentive: Faction standing gains. Kill a Mom in Amarr space - gain Amarr faction standing (with no derived standings toward others, all faction dislike sansha, so Minmatar shouldn't get mad at you for killing a mom) Perhaps some sec status gain too. But again - ONLY for killing the MOM, not for running normal sites. the "loot drop" is only a CHANCE in lowsec and no one will fly in low unless its a derpsec alliance, same for nullsec incursions. and the payouts scale for the risk and let us not forget that the revenant is a 100bill isk hull bpc or something stupid like that so no, no changes at all. as for risk in highsec.. people fly 2.5 to 5bill hulls, and they do get popped every so often so its got a nice loss ratio vs time taken to gain that isk back. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
710
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did you even read the post you responded to? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
873
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think the payout for incursion vanguard sites in highsec should be reduced by 75%. I haven't run any of the other incursion stuff but vanguards pay WAY too much. At one quarter of the payout, they would still be paying a lot more than any other highsec PVE activity. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
710
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
That would pretty much kill incursions.
Who would sit around for some time trying to organize a fleet, gather their shiny hulls in a location visible to everyone (ie incursion constellations) including gankers, run sites where if the logi suck you die, all for payouts on par with lvl 4s.
Everytime you undock in EVE, you are at risk. There were quite a few gankers in the last incursion system I was in, I saw a tripple officer web Vindi get taken down, and another deadspace+ faction vindi and an officer gunned NM taken down.
Incursion particupation plumetted and many groups dissolved after the last nerf (particularly the VG focused communities).
VG sites pay less than HQ sites in terms of ISK/hour, but of course, the risk due to NPCs is lower - but the fits are just as shiny and even less tanky.
Gone are the OTA train days of a D D D -done kill order. Most people I fly with vastly prefer to run HQs.
IMO, All we need, is added incentive to pop the mom. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
873
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
No. Highsec incursion payout needs a dramatic reduction in payout. If the payout is not worth the risk, reduce the incoming DPS. I'm all for making highsec PVE easier as long as the payout is reduced. Highsec pays too much. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
710
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
that would just kill the group PvE high sec content. It would also indirectly nerf low sec PvP, as many people I fly with run incursions to fund low sec roams and such. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
874
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
maybe lowsec incursions should have good pay while being something that can be run with ships people are willing to fly in lowsec. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
710
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Posted - 2014.01.18 14:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Funny, I was in a fleet that got a Revanant BPC a few weeks ago... Lost quite a few command ships, but it was worth it
Its only worth it as long as the Rev BPC commands such a high price.
If people run low sec mom sites more often... then the Rev's price will be set by its utility, not rarity...
And considering it does less DPS than a Nyx.... that utlity isn't much.... |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
877
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
They should make one or more capital ship components that are unique to the Revenant, then make BPCs for those drop commonly from incursion mothership sites, while the Revenant BPC should be rarer. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2310
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Funny, I was in a fleet that got a Revanant BPC a few weeks ago... Lost quite a few command ships, but it was worth it
Its only worth it as long as the Rev BPC commands such a high price.
If people run low sec mom sites more often... then the Rev's price will be set by its utility, not rarity...
And considering it does less DPS than a Nyx.... that utlity isn't much....
I used to run lowsec incursions with the CFC incursion group. We'd lose MAYBE one battleship.
It's really, really easy to run incursion sites in PVP ships with zero losses. I do not understand how you can lose multiple command ships and consider it worth it.
Or lose multiple command ships at all. Did you get dropped or something? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
877
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Posted - 2014.01.18 17:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
They were probably trying to do it with the minimum number of ship they could get away with, to increase individual profit. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Dave Stark
4237
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
unless the mom pays out a few billion, then there's no reason not to farm the incursion for all it's worth, and even then it'd probably still be better to farm an incursion for all it's worth and then pop the mom rather than popping it instantly. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
878
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
people would pop the mom faster if it paid better in relation to the rest of the sites, and if its value decreased as sites were run. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
712
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:Funny, I was in a fleet that got a Revanant BPC a few weeks ago... Lost quite a few command ships, but it was worth it
Its only worth it as long as the Rev BPC commands such a high price.
If people run low sec mom sites more often... then the Rev's price will be set by its utility, not rarity...
And considering it does less DPS than a Nyx.... that utlity isn't much.... I used to run lowsec incursions with the CFC incursion group. We'd lose MAYBE one battleship. It's really, really easy to run incursion sites in PVP ships with zero losses. I do not understand how you can lose multiple command ships and consider it worth it. Or lose multiple command ships at all. Did you get dropped or something?
Fleet doctrine was logi, HACs, and CSs, had trouble recruiting sufficient numbers. I think 2 or 3 stragglers got picked off just going there, and a couple more were picked off on the way back In the site, we were harassed by some ships that kept warping off... But when a 200 billion ISK rev BPC drops, you can replace quite a few command ships, no?
The payout from the drop was still ~100x the losses...
But this is not the point, its simply a suggestion to reduce high sec incursion farming by a non-ISK/faction gear incentive to pop the mom |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2310
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Have you actually found a buyer though? The rev is as good as it looks.
BUT ANYWAY. Remove highsec incursions entirely. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
712
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, I'm rather low on the totem pole in the group, so to speak, (so its certainly not *me* selling it), but as far as I know, no, not sold yet.
If you remove high sec incursions, then remove null sec as well, and make them a purely low sec thing |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2310
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fine with me, nobody runs the nullsec ones either. |
Jasmine Assasin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
149
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Posted - 2014.01.18 20:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you don't suck you can already pull in about the same ISK/hr doing L4s as doing VGs unless the fleet is pure shiny w/ an FC that isn't crap. I'd say the average VG site time is somewhere around five and half minutes. Add in other BS time and TBH you might get 100m an hour doing VGs. I know for a fact that a hardcore L4 runner could pull that income.
I also happen to know that you can make more in low/null so obviously the income disparity isn't what's keeping people in hisec...
I would also like to add, I play this game because I have access to hisec incursions. Without them I'm out of EVE...And I'm not the only one. Of course maybe you want to make EVE more "exclusive" for yourself? Not sure that's healthy but if the idea helps you sleep at night go for it. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
312
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Posted - 2014.01.18 21:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Fine with me, nobody runs the nullsec ones either.
Except when they have to because it is in a vital area. I love the cooperative PVE aspect of Incursions.
Rather than nerfing incursions, they should utterly gut mission-running, and make incursion running a major part of the new player experience. There should be incursions designed for players two weeks old to run in T1 frigates that pay more than level 2 missions. There should be incursion sites for two-month old T1 cruiser pilots. There should be some way to encourage new players to work together and meet other players. That will promote retention. I am convinced that CCP is trying to reignite interest in the game by irritating as many people as possible. These collective changes are designed to recreate the stunning success of Incarna and end the stagnation in Eve. Well played, CCP. Well played. |
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Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
122
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Posted - 2014.01.19 00:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Incursions need less isk payout and more loot/bpcs and lp payouts even in hisec. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
444
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hisec incursions are a massive part of Eve. I wonder if CCP has a metric for how much Hisec Incs contribute to the total amount of ISK being created in New Eden. That would be a good number to know.....
Anyway, they are too well loved to simply get rid of them. Even small changes will upset huge numbers of players. Eventually the story arc must come to an end (i.e. Sansha will achieve their campaign objective or abandon it) and incursions will stop, but not for a long time to come. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
316
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Hisec incursions are a massive part of Eve. I wonder if CCP has a metric for how much Hisec Incs contribute to the total amount of ISK being created in New Eden. That would be a good number to know.....
Anyway, they are too well loved to simply get rid of them. Even small changes will upset huge numbers of players. Eventually the story arc must come to an end (i.e. Sansha will achieve their campaign objective or abandon it) and incursions will stop, but not for a long time to come.
Or, some other faction could take over the onslaught.
http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
885
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Or, some other faction could take over the onslaught.
It'd be great to see different kinds of incursions by different perpetrators. Sansha incursions could be relegated to lowsec, as they are driven by a mad genius with a master plan to whittle down empire space, and he'd need to start at the frayed edges. Makes sense that his style would be to lock down and cyno jam the system, then debuff everyone. He wants to appear in full control while demoralizing everyone.
Blood Raiders could show up in brief harvesting stints in highsec, where they endanger common players who aren't paying attention or who spent too much time AFK. They attack a system by moving in a hidden harvester base of operations, and begin to actively chase players in weak ships that prepared noobs could either fight off or run from. Once their forces start taking a beating, they start constructing activity sites with stronger NPCs. Defeating these lead to the harvester hub. All short term, couple of hours to shut one down completely, and they are more likely to pop up in systems with a lot of ships that aren't moving.
Serpentis might gather in large numbers for an empire station siege, in which they surround the station with dozens of frigates and cruisers, all shooting at the station. As you kill them, more warp in in progressively bigger and stronger ships. At some point, they bring in a handful of carriers and dreadnoughts to finish off the station. If the station reaches zero hit points during the attack, the Serpentis run away and players lose out on valuable kill opportunities. If players kill the capital ships, everyone involved gets a cut of the fat ISK and loyalty point payout, and a chance to try and loot or salvage them.
Perhaps Angel Cartel would "gank NPC industry ships", in which sites would be created where a damaged freighter or convoy of industrials is moving through, and it's up to players to save the industrials/freighter from the Angel Cartel, scoring CONCORD payouts, loot from the rats, and rewards from the thankful NPCs.
Guristas might lock a system down and create gate camps at the stargates, in which they would literally tackle and blast player ships that come through. They would have fast-locking tacklers and hard-hitting cruisers to start with, and would bring in stronger ships as long as players resisted. If you try to jump in from outside the system, you receive a warning that the other side of the gate is camped by Guristas. Players can work to keep the gates safe, receiving payouts not only from the kills but also from players making it through the gates safely (on an amount of time gate is safe basis, not number of safe jumps). After protecting the gates long enough, the main Guristas attack hub spawns and players may attack it to finish the incursion and score phat lewtz.
That was all a lot of random stuff off the top of my head, based loosely on vague notions I have about the differences of each pirate faction. Maybe soomeone who knows more about their styles could adjust this. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Swiftstrike1 wrote:Hisec incursions are a massive part of Eve. I wonder if CCP has a metric for how much Hisec Incs contribute to the total amount of ISK being created in New Eden. That would be a good number to know.....
Anyway, they are too well loved to simply get rid of them. Even small changes will upset huge numbers of players. Eventually the story arc must come to an end (i.e. Sansha will achieve their campaign objective or abandon it) and incursions will stop, but not for a long time to come. Or, some other faction could take over the onslaught.
why not create just incursions sector specific.
Amarr 70% chance of sansha incursion (30% for Angel|blood|guristas|serpentis) Khanid 70% chance of blood incursion (30% for Angel|guristas|sansha|serpentis) Gallente 70% chance of serpentis incursion (30% for Angel|blood|guristas|sansha) Minmatar 70% chance of angel incursion (30% for blood|guristas|sansha|serpentis) Caldari 70% chance of gurista incursion (30% for Angel|blood|sansha|serpentis)
For Null. Maybe make it empire incursions |
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