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Xixa Nova
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.20 15:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.
It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.
Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?
Thanks! |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
145
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Posted - 2014.01.20 15:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xixa Nova wrote:So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.
It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.
Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?
Thanks!
You are just paranoid and underestimating the frequency of order updating by other players. Not to say there aren't bots, but most you're seeing probably aren't using automated software to update their orders. .
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Kyori Ephrael
A Fine Disregard for Awkward Facts Sovereign Stars
2
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
It doesn't take that long for a practiced marketeer to undercut.
When I do it, I am constantly double-clicking my market orders in the wallet orders page to cycle through the orders [with the 'highlight my orders' setting turned on] so that it takes very little time to see if I am undercut. Then it is a simple matter to right click the order, backspace once or twice and type one or two digits to undercut. Several seconds is more than enough time.
If you're having trouble being undercut and keeping up - I suggest splitting your orders into several smaller orders so you can modify the prices more frequently, or move to a quieter hub.
Kyori, |
Kendra Coldera
Ripoff Industries
7
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Be glad that you get 0.01 isked!
Nothing is worse then actually getting 1.00 isked or similar! Because then I cannot use the mousewheel to adjust my price |
Xixa Nova
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ok, so maybe not bots then, at least not always.
It's not that I'm having trouble - I sell my stuff and make a profit so I don't mind. I just have a terrible hatred for bots of all sorts. If people are doing it themselves then I am a happy trading alt! |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
609
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
When i am actively trading for my manufacturing alt it is often the 5 min update rule that limits my trading. i generally actively trade while waiting for a fleet to form up or when i have a ton of stuff i need processed. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Signal11th
Amarr Empire
1250
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
tbh when I did it I used to spend all day checking my orders constantly, so tbh you could have just come across another player like me. I even used to spread my orders into groups for the same item so I could just at anytime be the top order on the market. Don't need to be a bot just someone very sad like I was back then. Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2431
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xixa Nova wrote:So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.
It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.
Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?
Thanks! I undercut people within minutes quite a lot of the time if I'm actively marketing. It's because I just cycle through, pretty much on autopilot with my limits and margins in my head, adjusting orders. If I'm not adding anything new, I often sit one jump out too, so I can mark my orders and set destination on the trading station so They both highlight for even more ease.
If I do see someone undercutting me a lot, I'll usually put a second batch of the item up, then alternate them so I can halve the time between updates, and I'll time one to be able to update within seconds of the person undercutting me. The plan is to make them ragequit their attempts to undercut, and it's surprisingly effective. I'd like to say that it's just patience, but it's not really it's impatience. I want to sell my stuff as soon as is possible for the best margin possible, and updating fast and often is the best way to do that. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
138
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process. |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
40
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
You are all bots and should be banned |
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Vamprina Maximus
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.22 01:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bots are a problem, but the instant .01 isking is usually another player with multiple buy and sell orders. You know its a robot when 4 orders are getting refreshed at once every 5 minute cooldown.. because a real player would only update 2, and wait to be undercut before updating the others.
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Vamprina Maximus
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.22 01:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process.
Unless there is significant margin, there is no reason to do anything other than .01 isk. Unless you sell for less than what others would lose money at, you will not stop the competition.
If anything, severely undercutting sell orders makes competition stiffer because margin traders will not want to dump their buy orders at a loss. |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
149
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Posted - 2014.01.22 11:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kyori Ephrael wrote:It doesn't take that long for a practiced marketeer to undercut.
When I do it, I am constantly double-clicking my market orders in the wallet orders page to cycle through the orders [with the 'highlight my orders' setting turned on] so that it takes very little time to see if I am undercut. Then it is a simple matter to right click the order, backspace once or twice and type one or two digits to undercut. Several seconds is more than enough time.
If you're having trouble being undercut and keeping up - I suggest splitting your orders into several smaller orders so you can modify the prices more frequently, or move to a quieter hub.
Kyori,
Y'all know you can use the mouse wheel to roll the price up/down in the modify order window? Potentially much faster. I've done some really stupid **** in this game. |
Nate Guralman
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
50
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:When i am actively trading for my manufacturing alt it is often the 5 min update rule that limits my trading. i generally actively trade while waiting for a fleet to form up or when i have a ton of stuff i need processed.
This. I work from a home a few days a week. My gaming machine is running EVE the whole day, and I'll check market orders fairly often (a few times an hour). |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
208
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Posted - 2014.01.23 07:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I am going to make an assumption here: You are attempting to trade in Jita, yes?
I would suggest trying some of the other trade hubs instead, if you have no already.
There are also some lesser known, tertiary trade hubs as well. Those are almost entirely bot-free. The sound of the Amarrian heart |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1106
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vamprina Maximus wrote:Oska Rus wrote:You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process. Unless there is significant margin, there is no reason to do anything other than .01 isk. Unless you sell for less than what others would lose money at, you will not stop the competition.
Apart from the sheer entertainment of griefing them by cutting their profits at virtually no cost to yourself. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1370
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kendra Coldera wrote:Be glad that you get 0.01 isked! Nothing is worse then actually getting 1.00 isked or similar! Because then I cannot use the mousewheel to adjust my price
Heheh, I always undercut by greater than 1.0 isk. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ramone Ormand
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.01.24 08:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
When I station traded for a while I used a 3rd party application to tell me when i've been undercut and what the new price I should put in is if I want to 0.01 isk them. It was really good because it copied the price to your clipboard so instead of looking at the price, mousewheeling to 0.01 isk the other orders, double checking is you're the lowest price, then moving on to your next order, you would instead just copy - paste all the prices
It is something to consider I would think.
Or just try some of the other form of trading if you grow tired of 0.01'ing other people |
sodney
Perimeter Industries
346
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Posted - 2014.01.26 18:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
You are just paranoid and underestimating the frequency of order updating by other players. Not to say there aren't bots, but most you're seeing probably aren't using automated software to update their orders.
not saying your wrong, but I'd like to know the source of that assertion. Besides CCP, I dont see how anyone can say anything about that topic but a pure guess. |
Jace Sarice
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
33
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Posted - 2014.01.26 18:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Generally speaking, I think you are underestimating the pennypunchers. I know many people who do absolutely nothing in-game besides .01 and chat with friends.
Time to head to Rens. Trust your veins. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3126
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Posted - 2014.01.26 18:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
If the success of your orders hinge upon a 0.01 ISK difference, then you really should consider a different market.
The only time I consider changing my price is if the undercut is for an unreasonable quantity that exceeds typical trade volume, but beware that sometimes that is the point; someone is trying to drive the price lower, though that is often quite transparent.
My goal is for all orders to complete in under 3 days. With few exceptions over the years, I've been able to achieve that without playing the 0.01 ISK game. |
Natasha Karelin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.01.29 13:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:If the success of your orders hinge upon a 0.01 ISK difference, then you really should consider a different market.
The only time I consider changing my price is if the undercut is for an unreasonable quantity that exceeds typical trade volume, but beware that sometimes that is the point; someone is trying to drive the price lower, though that is often quite transparent.
My goal is for all orders to complete in under 3 days. With few exceptions over the years, I've been able to achieve that without playing the 0.01 ISK game.
Depends on the market though, with fluctuating markets you want to get rid of inventory as soon as possible at the top, if you just wait it out you'll always get minimal profit (if at all). I'd say trading strategy must depend on the nature of the market for the specific goods. In Jita 0.01 isking is often the best idea, if you can't / won't handle it then it's time to move to some low volume trading (rare crap or outside of main hubs). |
Lambert Simnel
PWLS Enterprises
29
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you hate it that much do what I do. Sell wholesale and sell direct through contract. You might not get the current sell price in Jita but you will move volume faster which can then be reinvested quickly. I only sell on the market if a contract falls through for whatever reason and then I undercut by a significant margin each time. It soon puts the 0.01 iskers off. |
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