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Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
2
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Stella Dust wrote:
They maybe studying games and peoples behaviour in games, but I don't see how they can gain any real information as the information will be specific to people playing games.
People act differently when rules/laws are enforced compared to when there are no rules/laws enforced (not all people of course).
But playing a game and the behaviour ingame will be different again, because of one major issue, which is there's no face-to-face confrontation.
For starters a persons behaviors and underlying reasonings and rationalities for actions is a very real informative commodity. Not just in motivators but also in placing restrictions on people, the reward/punishment factors. They also provide a good estimate on psychological makeup of people as well as what inhibitors can be broken when. Economically you can study market dynamics on a whole different level due to being able to keep track of every factor. This gives economic breakdowns much more clout.
Face to face isnt as much of an issue as you might think but can be accounted for if and when needed. Still the fact remains theres any different ways to learn even as an adult though gaming and especially MMOs in particular.
Id highly suggest you go to the TED website and check out a few of their talks about MMOs and gaming. Youd be surprised what people are and will learn from games. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
50
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Morality is part of EvE.
But EvE is a role playing game, one that allows people to role play characters with varying level of morality.
If you take people's behaviour in the game as part of their RL morality you need to step back, and possibly seek professional help.
I role play a more or less good guy, which doesn't exclude that fact that I might be a massmurdering psycho i RL. |
Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Stella Dust wrote:
They maybe studying games and peoples behaviour in games, but I don't see how they can gain any real information as the information will be specific to people playing games.
People act differently when rules/laws are enforced compared to when there are no rules/laws enforced (not all people of course).
But playing a game and the behaviour ingame will be different again, because of one major issue, which is there's no face-to-face confrontation.
For starters a persons behaviors and underlying reasonings and rationalities for actions is a very real informative commodity. Not just in motivators but also in placing restrictions on people, the reward/punishment factors. They also provide a good estimate on psychological makeup of people as well as what inhibitors can be broken when. Economically you can study market dynamics on a whole different level due to being able to keep track of every factor. This gives economic breakdowns much more clout. Face to face isnt as much of an issue as you might think but can be accounted for if and when needed. Still the fact remains theres any different ways to learn even as an adult though gaming and especially MMOs in particular. Id highly suggest you go to the TED website and check out a few of their talks about MMOs and gaming. Youd be surprised what people are and will learn from games.
I may take a look at that website sometime even though I doubt the quality of its data.
Some people treat MMOs like they're real with real life values, others treat them like fantasy, which they're supposed to be. So first off they would have to seperate which is real from that which is fantasy. In fantasy there are no inhibitors (except game rules).
MMOs are addictive if played for long periods of time, in part it's a bit like a gambler, just a bit longer see what drops, or I'll just do another mission as I not tired yet, then another etc. It can also make you a bit short with people in real life if you are concentrating on something ingame and you have someone trying to interrupt what you're doing.
But I can honestly say that no MMO has taught me anything new other than how to play the game itself. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
2
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Stella Dust wrote:
I may take a look at that website sometime even though I doubt the quality of its data.
Some people treat MMOs like they're real with real life values, others treat them like fantasy, which they're supposed to be. So first off they would have to seperate which is real from that which is fantasy. In fantasy there are no inhibitors (except game rules).
MMOs are addictive if played for long periods of time, in part it's a bit like a gambler, just a bit longer see what drops, or I'll just do another mission as I not tired yet, then another etc. It can also make you a bit short with people in real life if you are concentrating on something ingame and you have someone trying to interrupt what you're doing.
But I can honestly say that no MMO has taught me anything new other than how to play the game itself.
Do so its highly informative.
The reality isnt whether we deem the content as real or fantasy but that we deem the players and their ideas, thoughts, desires, wants, wishes, fears, like and dislikes as real things. And if your thoughts are deemed "real" entities then your actions, as extensions of your thoughts, are also real even if you apply them to an unreal situation such as the roleplaying aspects of what you consider fantasy gaming. As you are in essence roleplaying your character within the rules of the game.
Given that the advantage of using games, like experiments, is that the inhibitors or variables can be changed in a very specific sense and the resultant correlations, given the fact that we have access to the hordes of data, can be quantified very easily. So it makes games such as MMOs with a wide range of players, something thats needed to give a good statistical cross section of a populace, ideal to garner data.
Yes the addictive qualities and how games are being created to become more addictive is the topic of one of the TEDs and a recent forum thread here. Again all from adults learning from the games and applying the data.
I would have to say how unfortunate for you and then I would suggest going beyond the set thinking of what your idea of learning consists of and going deeper into what the game holds for not just you as a person but for people in general. You might be amazed at what you can learn when you think about something a lil differently. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
389
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Posted - 2011.11.09 13:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
As Bill Shankly might have said if he had played Eve: some people believe Eve is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
The reality isnt whether we deem the content as real or fantasy but that we deem the players and their ideas, thoughts, desires, wants, wishes, fears, like and dislikes as real things. And if your thoughts are deemed "real" entities then your actions, as extensions of your thoughts, are also real even if you apply them to an unreal situation such as the roleplaying aspects of what you consider fantasy gaming. As you are in essence roleplaying your character within the rules of the game.
I disagree with this and this is where I see the data that they collect as unsafe data.
People do not always play their characters in a way that reflects what they're like in real life. Some characters are played to be an almost opposite (or mix) of what they're really like.
Fantasy is just that fantasy, if they try to extract real life answers out of fantasy, their results are likely to be the same too, just fantasy. |
Long John Silver
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ganking miners is a bit like beating up a pizza delivery boy in RL.
Just because you can do it, should you? This sums up your morality dilemma.
In RL you probably won't do it. Besides there are consequences... he might go and tell someone bigger than you what you did, and you'll also have to clean all the blood off your clothes which is just SO inconvenient.
In EVE, many people will - because they can, they only reveal their in-game persona AND you'll never ever know who they are in RL so they never have to face any physical consequences.
Such is human nature. Long John Silver | Pirate Alt-áand Forum Troll. |
Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: I would have to say how unfortunate for you and then I would suggest going beyond the set thinking of what your idea of learning consists of and going deeper into what the game holds for not just you as a person but for people in general. You might be amazed at what you can learn when you think about something a lil differently.
Nearly forgot this;
I don't generally have set ideas, they can and do at times evolve when new information comes to light (just like science). Information that proves the old ideas need modifying.
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Bischopt
Ice Fire Warriors
9
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Long John Silver wrote:In EVE, many people will - because they can, they only reveal their in-game persona AND you'll never ever know who they are in RL so they never have to face any physical consequences. Such is human nature.
Physical consequences for a game? In the christian middle age maybe.
It's a game. Can we please put this ridiculous thread to sleep now?
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
3
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Stella Dust wrote: I disagree with this and this is where I see the data that they collect as unsafe data.
People do not always play their characters in a way that reflects what they're like in real life. Some characters are played to be an almost opposite (or mix) of what they're really like.
Fantasy is just that fantasy, if they try to extract real life answers out of fantasy, their results are likely to be the same too, just fantasy.
No your right but therein lies an interesting question on the human psyche. If you are playing a role other than what you normally are like in real life is that not too a portion of your real psyche? Honestly it is. But inhibitors within real life, consequences of actions, generally limit us from exploring these parts of our personas in anything other than in what you consider fantasy situations. Few carry through with these ideas but everyone has them to one extent or another. Within games you actually see a much truer nature of a person than you will in real life simply because the safety nets are taken away and you are given free range to do what you wish.
See theres something called the subconscious. Freud spoke of it immensely in his works. The idea of a Freudian slip, the subconscious desires coming through into the "real" world through the slip of a tongue. The idea of wanting to beat the idiot at the bank over the head in your mind but not doing so in real life. Both are real things, both 'thought' and 'action' are real. Neither can be classed as fantasy at all where a person is concerned. Its the same as when you drink or take drugs. They lower inhibitions in people much the same as anonymity and the freedom of a gaming world do. Allowing us to become different people than we would normally be. Yet there still must be a part of the desires within us to act this way even in uninhibited situations making that part of our persona or psyche just as real, just suppressed, as the rest of our psyches. But in gaming situations we get to see and even test and measure that.
That is REAL information and useful.
So the data isnt at all unsafe, its really on how your looking at it. |
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Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Long John Silver wrote:Ganking miners is a bit like beating up a pizza delivery boy in RL. Just because you can do it, should you? This sums up your morality dilemma. In RL you probably won't do it. Besides there are consequences... he might go and tell someone bigger than you what you did, and you'll also have to clean all the blood off your clothes which is just SO inconvenient. In EVE, many people will - because they can, they only reveal their in-game persona AND you'll never ever know who they are in RL so they never have to face any physical consequences. Such is human nature.
There are no real life morals in fantasy, unless you wish to add them. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
151
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Not this again...
If I stab you in real life, the consequences of my actions is that you are now in a life threatening situation. Your internet spaceship captain wouldn't feel a thing, in fact if it had any kind of a reaction, it would be a artificial one (programmed) and while you might feel distressed over it, it is not going to be a case of where you might actually die.
If you are incapable of making that kind of difference between reality and a game, you really have some serious issues. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Stella Dust
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: No your right but therein lies an interesting question on the human psyche. If you are playing a role other than what you normally are like in real life is that not too a portion of your real psyche?
I'm sure there are people who would like to think so, but I don't think so. Playing a role that's not what you are like in an RP sense takes a lot of effort, it's not something that comes naturally at first. Lazy way to RP is to bring a lot of real life baggage with you but even then as it's a game there will still be elements that go against what you're really like.
Is the game real or fantasy to you, that will determine for the most part how you will play your character.
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: See theres something called the subconscious..
Subconscious gets blamed for far too many things.
If you're actually RPing a character you have to make a conscious effort to do so.
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: So the data isnt at all unsafe, its really on how your looking at it.
If it's how you look at it, it's not factual it's subjective hence unsafe. |
Long John Silver
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Long John Silver wrote:In EVE, many people will - because they can, they only reveal their in-game persona AND you'll never ever know who they are in RL so they never have to face any physical consequences. Such is human nature. Physical consequences for a game? In the christian middle age maybe. It's a game. Can we please put this ridiculous thread to sleep now?
RL games can have physical consequences. Russian roulette. Chicken run. Play-fighting. People who wimp out of physical risk in RL are often much bolder when hiding behind their digital persona. Thats why there is more ganking, trolling and general nastiness in EVE and less concern about morality than RL. Long John Silver | Pirate Alt-áand Forum Troll. |
Long John Silver
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Stella Dust wrote:Long John Silver wrote:profound stuff There are no real life morals in fantasy, unless you wish to add them.
Exactly my point. Though some might disagree about EVE being fantasy. Long John Silver | Pirate Alt-áand Forum Troll. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
2026
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Posted - 2011.11.09 14:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Hey let's see if we can make this morality thread as dumb as the other morality thread. The OP achieved that goal all by himself. Who'd of thunk it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Written Word
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
The only moral outrage we should ever have over EVE is that people aren't causing enough sh1tty pubbie tears.
Think of all the thirsty tear drinkers! |
Wight Ithira
MOB Organized Corporation P I R A T E S
6
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Posted - 2011.11.09 15:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
OH NO! Am I going to be arrested for all the crimes I've committed in this game, I mean, extension of reality? I can't afford a good lawyer unless they accept ISK as payment!
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
143
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Posted - 2011.11.10 14:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
Please do not create multiple threads about the same topic, thank you.
Thread locked.
You can continue discussions about this topic here. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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