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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
652
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Posted - 2014.01.27 23:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
The news of a new ship in Eve usually gathers excitement but no one seems to care about the Nestor coming out tomorrow. I found a few forum topics but none went far.
I looked at the bonuses and it seems rather weak compared to other Pirate Faction battleships
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level Amarr Battleship Bonus: 4% Armor resistances per level
It sounds like they took the Rattlesnakes bonuses and transferred them to an armor tanked ship.
Role Bonuses
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount 100% bonus to remote armor repairer range Maybe spider tanking?
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range Okay a range bonus but no damage bonus... Okay it's a secondary weapon so that's fine
50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers Is it PVE ship for scanning sites or does this have a practical PVP use?
Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets That doesn't get me excited at all but maybe I'm missing something
I'm just trying to get some thoughts on this ship as to why there's not much interest in the forums. Is it junk or has too limited of a role and if so what would this be?
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/soe-reinforcements-and-ui-fine-tuning/ |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
313
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Posted - 2014.01.28 00:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
umm.... There is a 100-page threadnaught in the Features & Ideas sub-forum. The ship was talked to death. General consensus seemed to be that it sucked ass and had no redeeming qualities to justify it's cost. Best use proposed seemed to be as a Flagship for Alliance Tourney. Pretty much the tl;dr for you. |
Hiton Kado
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.28 07:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better? |
Bibosikus
Flowery Twats
188
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Posted - 2014.01.28 11:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better?
No. Just.. En-Oh.
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Hiton Kado
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.28 11:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better? No. Just.. En-Oh. Why? Honest question, I'm just curious and clueless. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
537
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Posted - 2014.01.28 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:Why? Honest question, I'm just curious and clueless.
Nestor is probably going to cost at least, by my PIOTA guess, at least 1.5 billion ISK on the market, once the market stabilizes.
AT. LEAST.
Now go figure out how many t2 sentry Domi's you can buy for that amount and you will see why.
Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
663
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 13:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:Bibosikus wrote:Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better? No. Just.. En-Oh. Why? Honest question, I'm just curious and clueless.
So you fly your scan boat through a system, you see (a) 2 domis running an L5, or (b) 2 nestors running an L5. Which thing causes you drop probes ?
So you are sitting in an L5 hub, and you want to undock to go blitz some missions despite there being neutrals you don't know, because otherwise in a lowsec mission hub, you couldn't get a lot done. What mission ships do you undock ?
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
155
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Posted - 2014.01.28 14:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
If used properly, Nestor will be a hell of a bait ship...C: |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1415
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Posted - 2014.01.28 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
its a very tanky very expensive sentry domi thats good at RR but is much worse offensively. Generally RR domis are used because they're cheap, extremely effective, and have high dps. The projection issue is even bigger given the omnidirectional nerf.
Not much of a niche for it, unless you already mission with RR domis and find they don't have enough tank and do too much damage. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
490
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Posted - 2014.01.28 20:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures: The Enyo |
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1422
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Posted - 2014.01.28 20:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing.
A 1.4bn Nestor is equivalent to SOE LP dropping from 2.7k/lp to 1.8k/lp, and the stratios falling to to 250m isk per hull. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
667
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Posted - 2014.01.28 21:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better?
if you need spidertank and good resists then the nestor is indeed far better than the domi. The domi applys dps much better (and for far less isk). They might be used in WH's They might be used in incursions. They might be used as bait for pvp. They might be used as a RR spidertank in PVP.
Due to their cost they won't be widely used but it is because of the cost rather than that they are useless. If they cost the same as a domi then null fleets would be all over these ships. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
667
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 21:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing. A 1.4bn Nestor is equivalent to SOE LP dropping from 2.7k/lp to 1.8k/lp, and the stratios falling to to 250m isk per hull.
and yet they are 1.67 bill already Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis CALSF
407
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 21:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing. A 1.4bn Nestor is equivalent to SOE LP dropping from 2.7k/lp to 1.8k/lp, and the stratios falling to to 250m isk per hull.
In other words, while there's still demand for the Astero and the Stratios, nobody's going to be fbeeping building Nestors. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
986
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 21:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Batelle wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing. A 1.4bn Nestor is equivalent to SOE LP dropping from 2.7k/lp to 1.8k/lp, and the stratios falling to to 250m isk per hull. In other words, while there's still demand for the Astero and the Stratios, nobody's going to be fbeeping building Nestors. SOMEONE is doing it if EvE central is to be believed, and doing it for under the LP value of the Stratios already.
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
231
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 22:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better? if you need spidertank and good resists then the nestor is indeed far better than the domi. The domi applys dps much better (and for far less isk). They might be used in WH's They might be used in incursions. They might be used as bait for pvp. They might be used as a RR spidertank in PVP. Due to their cost they won't be widely used but it is because of the cost rather than that they are useless. If they cost the same as a domi then null fleets would be all over these ships.
No, it is not the cost, a domi is cheap and rather effective however a marauder will outdo it for pve RR stuff and it was used for that(I however not used them since the bastion nerf).
For WH, marauders are better by offering more cap, dps, better projection and tanking is not so much of a deal. Same goes for Incs, a marauder is the better RR BS since it also adds a lot of damage and got enough target slots to shoot and remote rep at the same time. As single logi replacement it would be sub par, since it doesn't got a tracking link bonus(what immensely helps) and is far harder to keep alive than a logi by a single dps hull. Also 90% of Inc pilots fly shield and since IIC went inactive by the lack of players, there is no bling armor channel active as far as I know. For PVP a logi is far cheaper and more survivable by the combination of range, speed and low sig, plus if you need something static for max rep a triage carrier does the same for less much better. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Celia Therone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 23:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Marc Callan wrote:Batelle wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:In theory, it's amazing for wormholes and some snake'd lowsec-stuff, it's just way to expensive.
IF prices drop to some 1.3-1.4b, could imagine it being used for some really ballsy maneuvers, since you can actually make them pretty fast, scorch-using, spider/resist-bonused nanobattleships. Somehow. Never stop believing. A 1.4bn Nestor is equivalent to SOE LP dropping from 2.7k/lp to 1.8k/lp, and the stratios falling to to 250m isk per hull. In other words, while there's still demand for the Astero and the Stratios, nobody's going to be fbeeping building Nestors. SOMEONE is doing it if EvE central is to be believed, and doing it for under the LP value of the Stratios already. I believe a lot of people expected Nestors to start selling for around $3 bill+, dropping to $2 bill after a few days. So they cashed out their LP and built them speculatively before the current price dynamic was known. Now they're stuck with Nestors that they either mothball or sell to whatever people will pay.
Currently there's only 11 Nestor buy orders in Jita between 1 and 1.5 bill, after that it drops to 600 mill. And there's 36 sell orders...
My guess is that the Nestor price will drop further as people unload what they have committed to building then slowly start to climb back again as 'smart' people stop buying it with their LP. On the other hand it's possible that idiots who don't do LP conversion math and get Nestorss anyway will outnumber idiots who don't run the numbers and realize how mediocre the Nestor is so the price might not recover... |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
801
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 00:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
As a pure wormholer, I can speculate that not many wormholers will be using them. I do hope, however, that I am wrong and the killmails will start rolling in. bwahahahahaha No trolling please |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables
2954
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 01:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
655
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 02:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.
Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad" |
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
490
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 02:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures: The Enyo |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
231
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"
That was also done to death in the Nestor topic in F&I.
The main problem with the nestor isn't that is underwhelming and to expensive. It is that there seams to be no real concept behind the ship, or at least I can't see it.
A pirate faction RR BS? Sure why not, could be handy for Incs, WH or some Low Sec stuff. But then again you have to think about what you put on the hull to make it attractive in that niche. Like a 100% weapon bonus to actually use the gun bonus plus having 3-4 utility high slots for RR, like a powerful capacitor to run RR and guns more or less on cap recharge instead of cap boosters, high scan res to lock targets quick, low sig to improve survivability under RR and 10 or more target slots to have enough to lock RR targets and stuff to shoot at the same time.
A pirate faction exploration BS? Sure why not, give it a bit more dps, remove the RR stuff and make it warp faster, give it bonuses to normal cloaks to reduce the penalty's and add speed to burn back to the gate or gtfo in pvp situation. Also a higher travel speed than 2 AU/s wouldn't hurt.
This are just 2 things that I could think of where to go with the hull. It simply lacks the basic design philosophy of deciding what to do with the hull and then deciding what stats/bonuses to put on the hull that it would be attractive for that.
Lloyd Roses wrote:With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see.
A mach costs halve as much, is faster, does more dps and got the way smaller sig. Also the reason why any nano buffer setup uses shields is because it doesn't slow you down, 15km RR range are not that much during kitting and the problem with heavy drones on a nano BS is that you will lose them all the time when you need to gtfo because they are slow.
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables
2954
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad" I have no issue with there existing 'fun' blingy ships that arent really very good but carebears will buy anyway cos theyre 'cool'.
the issue with the nestor is that it's being sold as an exploration battleship which is a class that doesnt exist. the crux of the issue is that the ship can't be good without a covops cloak but it can't be allowed to have one because it would be OP as all get up. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:IIshira wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad" I have no issue with there existing 'fun' blingy ships that arent really very good but carebears will buy anyway cos theyre 'cool'. the issue with the nestor is that it's being sold as an exploration battleship which is a class that doesnt exist. the crux of the issue is that the ship can't be good without a covops cloak but it can't be allowed to have one because it would be OP as all get up.
What would really make it any more OP than an Arazu dropping a proper cyno and bringing in super carriers?
Differen't game for a different generation. Personally I think a Black Ops BS fleet capable going into a fleet fight and not just a gank would be cool as **** to see. The only thing it is missing is reliable logistic support. I think the Nestor should have been a Logistics BS from day one for WH and BLOPS Support. This would be how I did it.
Amarr Bonus Armor Resist +4%
Gallente Bonus Armor Maitenance Bot +20%
Role Bonus 100% To Remote Armor Rep and Cap Transfer Range 50% Bonus to Remote Armor Rep and Cap Transrer Amount Remote Sensor booster Bonus+50% Can Fit Covops Cloak.+Cov Ops Cyno +10 Virus Strength
Reduce Drone Bay to 250m3 Add Fuel Bay.
* Can not black ops bridge, but can jump to black ops cynos.
-1 Mid + 1 high.
I would buy that |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
336
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 10:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's a magic ice cream truck CCP made for keeping pirates and gankerbears happy on hot days. |
Bibosikus
Flowery Twats
189
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
At this time of writing, about 100 Nestors have been sold in Jita at an average of 1.7b
The buyers are collectors, epeeners and "who-gives-a-f*ckers"
Nobody in their right mind is buying this ship to fly it proactively and soberly.
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Artenso Vestindal
Dark Flames of Amarr
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:At this time of writing, about 100 Nestors have been sold in Jita at an average of 1.7b
The buyers are collectors, epeeners and "who-gives-a-f*ckers"
Nobody in their right mind is buying this ship to fly it proactively and soberly.
at current cost of Nestor BPC and other thinks in LP store, it is extremely inefficient to sell nestor under 2B... Should it match ISK/LP ratio of Stratios after release, Nestor would have to be sold at least for 2,5-3B... FAIL
Anyway... nestor is ship 1. with no clear role exept of being drone platform (worse than domi coz of tracking and range bonus on it). 2.At the same time, they nerfed omnitracking for drones (currently with 5 omnies you would have worse bonus than with 2 before it)
what can you do with overpriced droneboat released in time droneboats are nerfed so hard? Hangar spinning... Or hope its price will be decent in first week (well... it isnt)
sincerely disappointed trader (currently with another collector only ship) |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
140
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
1. change the laser optimal bonus for a damage bonus, 50% is okay but reduce its turret hardpoints to 4
2. increase capacitor
3. change the logistic bonuses fron only armor to being armor, shield and cap transfer
4. add covert cloak bonuses like those of the stratios and the astero (if the thing will be so expensive at least allow it to travel cloaked so you dont risk those 2 billions)
i dont know....the ship is drone+laser but the laser bonuses need to be improved to be actually used, the logistic bonuses only focus in armor, this kills the interest for those that use shield ships, as many people say, you cannot do exploration in dangerous space without a covert cloak, this needs to be added.......
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
170
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:1. change the laser optimal bonus for a damage bonus, 50% is okay but reduce its turret hardpoints to 4
2. increase capacitor
3. change the logistic bonuses fron only armor to being armor, shield and cap transfer
4. add covert cloak bonuses like those of the stratios and the astero (if the thing will be so expensive at least allow it to travel cloaked so you dont risk those 2 billions)
i dont know....the ship is drone+laser but the laser bonuses need to be improved to be actually used, the logistic bonuses only focus in armor, this kills the interest for those that use shield ships, as many people say, you cannot do exploration in dangerous space without a covert cloak, this needs to be added.......
These changes don't improve on the problem that the Nestor faces...
Its bonuses are all over the map, and it has no dedicated role or use.
If I want laser DPS, ill get some folks into Navy Geddons at less cost. If I want Drone DPS ill get some folks into Domis at less cost (hell you can pimp fit them and still come out cheaper) If I want repairs ill bring a dedicated Logistic Cruiser. If I want to do Relic/Data sites ill use a Cov Ops or one of the 2 other SOE ships If I am doing Complexes/WH sites ill bring a T3.
CCP had a chance to improve Black Ops Battleship fleets beyond just ganking targets, and the opportunity to provide a ship capable of supporting long term exploration in WH's. (with Ship Maint. Bay.) They axed the ability to Cov Ops and joing Blops gangs, and they killed the maint. bay.
If I go to a WH I still need a POS or a Mobile Depot. If I blops I still have no logi (aside from gimmick T3's) and resort to ganking Carriers in belts.
It needs to be reconfigured to preform a dedicated role without stepping on the toes of current role players.
In this situation the only one that jumps out at me is as a Logistics Battleship capable of jumping to Black Ops Cyno and Fitting Covert Ops Cloak. You can also look at the current ships in game and notice that there is no ship that fills this role aside from gimmick T3's, and if you need reps in a wormhole bring a cruiser.
I would say the problem with the bonuses is...it has to many across to many areas. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1465
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
if the ship was underwhelming before the omni nerf... now... bleh. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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