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SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Black Legion.
55
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Posted - 2014.01.30 19:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
The great thing is, the phantasm no longer has to be alone. |
unreasonable reason
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.01.30 19:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
before even thinking of buying one I put it through eft, result is with 1 large t2 armor rep, no mwd, ab or mjd, empty 2 utility highs that's intended for rr, all the rest of fittings takes 1 pg per module, maxed skills, it's nearly 500 pg short of able to fit 5 mega pules laser II. with 2 large remote armor reps, mwd, 1 large armor rep and 5x tachyon IIs, it is over 7k pg short. the only large lasers it can comfortably fit 5 of is dual heavy beams, and dual heavy pulse.
beside the massive pg shortage for a pirate faction ship, the cap is less than a domi, with rr, mwd (important to take advantage of low mass and no sentry range bonus) and using lasers, it's very very poor on cap unless you use alot of cap boosters instead of cap rechargers. i guess the bigger cargo bay is for carrying around cap booster charges, not really in line with the "long deployment self efficient exploration ship" brand they got in the description. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
171
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Posted - 2014.01.30 21:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Just spent like an hour trying out various ways to fit this ship...
Needs more Capacitor if it is going to be an RR ship even in a chain with another Nestor you would still need 2 boosters in the mids. So even changing its bonuses to promote RR use is kind of futile.
Back to the drawing board. |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
366
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 23:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"
This was done extensively in the F&I and CCP Rise simply ignored all the feedback, much like CCP SoniClover did with the ESS and CCP Fozzie did with omni tracking. Seems like a pattern is developing here... |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables
2968
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Posted - 2014.01.31 00:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:This was done extensively in the F&I and CCP Rise simply ignored all the feedback, much like CCP SoniClover did with the ESS and CCP Fozzie did with omni tracking. Seems like a pattern is developing here... hardly developing. has been fully developed for so long it's nearing retirement age. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Boudacca Sangrere
Anomalous Existence Surely You're Joking
52
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
EvE is about choices. About having your cake OR eating it. In my opinion the crux with the Nestor is that it is neither good at getting the cake, nor at eating it (I hope you excuse my food based analogy, but I am hungry).
Fear not, there are solutions. I do think a Cov Ops cloak would be quite nice actually and very, very useful. Alas, it would seem to be a bit overpowered. So how about "greying" out all high slots (and locking the drone bay) while having one fitted? Especially, with some of the nice new modules (mobile depot, D-scan inhibitor, etc.) it would give pilots an incentive to use these (and use up cargo), which leads to making choices...
An additional low (at the cost of an mid slot) would be also very helpful (the Nestor IS an Armor ship after all), in order to give the Nestor a place and proper role.
Just fly,
B. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
172
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Boudacca Sangrere wrote:EvE is about choices. About having your cake OR eating it. In my opinion the crux with the Nestor is that it is neither good at getting the cake, nor at eating it (I hope you excuse my food based analogy, but I am hungry).
Fear not, there are solutions. I do think a Cov Ops cloak would be quite nice actually and very, very useful. Alas, it would seem to be a bit overpowered. So how about "greying" out all high slots (and locking the drone bay) while having one fitted? Especially, with some of the nice new modules (mobile depot, D-scan inhibitor, etc.) it would give pilots an incentive to use these (and use up cargo), which leads to making choices...
An additional low (at the cost of an mid slot) would be also very helpful (the Nestor IS an Armor ship after all), in order to give the Nestor a place and proper role.
Just fly,
B.
That doesn't even make any sense.
if I wanted a cloaky cargo bay id just befirend a Covops Hauler. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1577
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Djego wrote:IIshira wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on. Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad" That was also done to death in the Nestor topic in F&I. The main problem with the nestor isn't that is underwhelming and to expensive. It is that there seams to be no real concept behind the ship, or at least I can't see it. A pirate faction RR BS? Sure why not, could be handy for Incs, WH or some Low Sec stuff. But then again you have to think about what you put on the hull to make it attractive in that niche. Like a 100% weapon bonus to actually use the gun bonus plus having 3-4 utility high slots for RR, like a powerful capacitor to run RR and guns more or less on cap recharge instead of cap boosters, high scan res to lock targets quick, low sig to improve survivability under RR and 10 or more target slots to have enough to lock RR targets and stuff to shoot at the same time. A pirate faction exploration BS? Sure why not, give it a bit more dps, remove the RR stuff and make it warp faster, give it bonuses to normal cloaks to reduce the penalty's and add speed to burn back to the gate or gtfo in pvp situation. Also a higher travel speed than 2 AU/s wouldn't hurt. This are just 2 things that I could think of where to go with the hull. It simply lacks the basic design philosophy of deciding what to do with the hull and then deciding what stats/bonuses to put on the hull that it would be attractive for that. Lloyd Roses wrote:With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see. A mach costs halve as much, is faster, does more dps and got the way smaller sig. Also the reason why any nano buffer setup uses shields is because it doesn't slow you down, 15km RR range are not that much during kitting and the problem with heavy drones on a nano BS is that you will lose them all the time when you need to gtfo because they are slow. The bonus to probing and hacking is hilarious.
Nestor warps to sig. If Nestor is not scrambled by intie while aligning, Intie will be waiting for it at sig when it arrives.
Nestor is at hacking site, intie jumps in warps to site, scrambles Nestor before its even halfway to warp..
Its just not practical to have a billion + isk battleship doing hacking when you have interceptors that can literally lock, warp and run circles around battleships with impunity. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
186
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Well to be fair it can use small drones so I don't know about "impunity" but yes this is a silly redundant feature. Its like CCP just ate a bunch of ideas and threw some up on the floor. Then took out all the decent ones and left a pile of pukey crap sitting there. |
Phaade
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
139
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
This ship is horrendously bad.....
It doesn't do anything it claims in the description well....
Who made the decision on this worthless 1.5b ship? |
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Phaade
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
139
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
In fact, it's actually comical that some developer in CCP thought this through for weeks, and STILL released it! |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
235
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 02:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The bonus to probing and hacking is hilarious.
Nestor warps to sig. If Nestor is not scrambled by intie while aligning, Intie will be waiting for it at sig when it arrives.
Nestor is at hacking site, intie jumps in warps to site, scrambles Nestor before its even halfway to warp..
Its just not practical to have a billion + isk battleship doing hacking when you have interceptors that can literally lock, warp and run circles around battleships with impunity.
Well my major problem is mostly that the bonus combination together with the slot layout, cap, sig and other stuff doesn't really make it useful for a particular task. I would agree that a relative slow moving BS is not the ideal platform in hostile territory to do plexing, however every BS can be tackled by a interceptor without much chances to counter it, so it isn't really a exclusive problem of the nestor. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
665
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 02:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Okay so from what most posters are saying it's an expensive collectible. With the multiple sentry drone nerfs of Rubicon 1.1 maybe a drone boat wasn't such a great idea for a new battleship.
I was hoping it had a use other than ship spinning and I was just missing it |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
189
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 03:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Okay so from what most posters are saying it's an expensive collectible. With the multiple sentry drone nerfs of Rubicon 1.1 maybe a drone boat wasn't such a great idea for a new battleship. I was hoping it had a use other than ship spinning and I was just missing it
2 of these bad boys is all you need.
[Nestor, Nestor]
2x 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction 3x E500 Prototype Energy Vampire Large S95a Remote Shield Booster Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
2x Large Shield Extender II 2x Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas EM Ward Field Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
2x 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II 3x Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Large Anti-Explosive Pump II Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
5x Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II
Effective HP: 231,965 (Eve: 205,720) Tank Ability: 122.90 DPS Damage Profile - Omni-Damage (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%) Shield Resists - EM: 79.14%, Ex: 81.57%, Ki: 82.30%, Th: 83.31% Armor Resists - EM: 82.32%, Ex: 73.83%, Ki: 77.02%, Th: 77.02% |
Ersahi Kir
The Empire Corporation
375
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 05:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:2 of these bad boys is all you need.
[Nestor, Nestor]
2x 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction 3x E500 Prototype Energy Vampire Large S95a Remote Shield Booster Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
2x Large Shield Extender II 2x Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas EM Ward Field Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
2x 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II 3x Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Large Anti-Explosive Pump II Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
5x Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II 5x Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II
Effective HP: 231,965 (Eve: 205,720) Tank Ability: 122.90 DPS Damage Profile - Omni-Damage (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%) Shield Resists - EM: 79.14%, Ex: 81.57%, Ki: 82.30%, Th: 83.31% Armor Resists - EM: 82.32%, Ex: 73.83%, Ki: 77.02%, Th: 77.02%
This is why we need downvotes. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
159
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
When the only thing you can think of for a hull is a very expensive bait setup because everyone wants to kill it with fire, then the hull in question has a lot of problems to begin with.
[Nestor, LPS N B-J]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Reactive Armor Hardener Damage Control II
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Republic Fleet Warp Scrambler Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Cynosural Field Generator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Dual Heavy Beam Laser II, Microwave L Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 Warden II x5 |
Boudacca Sangrere
Anomalous Existence Surely You're Joking
52
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 18:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Boudacca Sangrere wrote:EvE is about choices. About having your cake OR eating it. In my opinion the crux with the Nestor is that it is neither good at getting the cake, nor at eating it (I hope you excuse my food based analogy, but I am hungry).
Fear not, there are solutions. I do think a Cov Ops cloak would be quite nice actually and very, very useful. Alas, it would seem to be a bit overpowered. So how about "greying" out all high slots (and locking the drone bay) while having one fitted? Especially, with some of the nice new modules (mobile depot, D-scan inhibitor, etc.) it would give pilots an incentive to use these (and use up cargo), which leads to making choices...
An additional low (at the cost of an mid slot) would be also very helpful (the Nestor IS an Armor ship after all), in order to give the Nestor a place and proper role.
Just fly,
B. That doesn't even make any sense. if I wanted a cloaky cargo bay id just befirend a Covops Hauler.
I think you missunderstood. The point is, that WHILE you fit a cov ops cloak, you won't have too much combat abilities. But thanks to Mobile Depot you can swap the cloak out and have the full dps abilities... Remember, having cake OR eating it.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1592
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: The bonus to probing and hacking is hilarious.
Nestor warps to sig. If Nestor is not scrambled by intie while aligning, Intie will be waiting for it at sig when it arrives.
Nestor is at hacking site, intie jumps in warps to site, scrambles Nestor before its even halfway to warp..
Its just not practical to have a billion + isk battleship doing hacking when you have interceptors that can literally lock, warp and run circles around battleships with impunity.
Well my major problem is mostly that the bonus combination together with the slot layout, cap, sig and other stuff doesn't really make it useful for a particular task. I would agree that a relative slow moving BS is not the ideal platform in hostile territory to do plexing, however every BS can be tackled by a interceptor without much chances to counter it, so it isn't really a exclusive problem of the nestor. Yeah I see what you're saying. Just that none of the other battleships have bonuses to hacking. It might be doable to use it with a improved cloak, just have to hope and pray that your not in the process of catching can spew if something comes into local since I think can spew would prevent you cloaking up quick.
And yeah the slot layout is junk.
T3 with hacking systems so much better. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1212
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 08:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hiton Kado wrote:From what I've read many people use spider tanking Dominix's, especially in wormholes but also in other parts of EVE. Would the Nestor not just fill exactly that role but do it even better?
at 12 times the cost does not qualify as better.. when the slot layout cancels the advantage of the resist bonus. 5 mids were enough for the cruiser.. so the Battleship shoudl have kept 5 mids and got 1 more low slot. THat woudl have made HUGE difference on ship potential. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1212
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 08:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:When the only thing you can think of for a hull is a very expensive bait setup because everyone wants to kill it with fire, then the hull in question has a lot of problems to begin with.
[Nestor, LPS N B-J]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Reactive Armor Hardener Damage Control II
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Republic Fleet Warp Scrambler Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Cynosural Field Generator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Dual Heavy Beam Laser II, Microwave L Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 Warden II x5
Why not use a marauder for that? A bit under half the price.... will live longer...
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 09:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
You could also use a Prophecy or even a Navy auguror if oyu wanted to spend less money. The reason for suggesting a Nestor is that everyone wants to kill a Nestor...C: |
Ersahi Kir
The Empire Corporation
378
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 15:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
The ship is just so limited in any role that it would have. it lacks the powergrid to be a lazer sniper, it lacks the lows to be a brick tank, and it has all of the limitations of a battleship when it comes to exploration. I tried to play with a remote rep fit and it was comically bad compared to a guardian. The only thing the ship had going for it, being a drone boat, is less useful now that drones have been nerfed somewhat.
I was hoping there would be some tiny niche for this ship where it would be ok, but this ship is the poster child for the idea that if a ship isn't designed to do something well it's going to be terrible at everything. At least that gives it plenty of time to frolic in the asteroid belts with the other misfit spaceships like the tempest. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
13
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 16:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
I've played around with the Nestor a little bit, and I agree it has a few issues. I don't think it's a terrible ship, but the lack of focus really hurts it's effectiveness in... well everything.
If you ignore the Nestor's price for the time being, and compare it to a similar ship like the Armageddon, the weaknesses become apparent. The first, and most important, weakness many people have touched on in this thread already. The Nestor has around 80% the power-grid of the Armageddon, and gains 20% more CPU. On paper this sounds like a decent trade off, but in reality it's quite excessive. Even though the Nestor may have lost a low, and gain two additional mid slots, I'm not sure why this swing was so drastic, it makes fitting highs extremely difficult.
Personally, I'd like to see the Powergrid shifted to around: 12125-12850 mW, and the CPU to around 580-600 TF, around a 5% to 10% shift instead of the excessive 20% change we currently have.
Second, and slightly less apparent, is the Nestor's lack of speed. I know the SoE ships are supposed to be trading top speed for agility and sustainability, but without a cloak (note: I still dont think the Nestor should have the covert ops) the Nestor's top speed is a liability that detracts from several of the role bonuses. Because it gets a large energy weapon optimal range, and not tracking or damage bonus, the Nestor should be attempting to set the combat range. The problem is, it has no way to manage that, it's slower then the majority of other BS vessels which makes the window where optimal range makes a difference very small.
This can also be a problem when using remote reps. Although the Nestor is fine in a static engagement, when a fleet is on the move it will probably have issues keeping up with it's rep targets. Not a pleasant situation.
I don't think it should be the fastest BS, but it should have a respectable max speed in order to have some options. I'd like to see it in the 105-110 m/s range, but it's hard to gauge with the lower mass.
If those two issues were fixed I think the Nestor would be a respectable ship, not as feared as some, but usable. |
Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 08:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
No cov ops cloak. It's the same **** than Black Ops.
Good for reprocessing. It melts down nicely in reprocessing facility. |
Shpenat
Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation The Obsidian Front
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 14:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua wrote:No cov ops cloak. It's the same **** than Black Ops.
Good for reprocessing. It melts down nicely in reprocessing facility.
There is never going to be cov ops cloaky battleship. So please stop asking for one.
Nestor has quite strong focus but lacks stats to support it. It could serve as really great black ops logistics ship, but it does not belong to black ops family. It has way to weak capacitor to actually use that huge rep bonus it has. It does not offer much on the field of firepower that would justify its usage.
I personally would vote for nestor becoming pirate variant of black ops ships. The only problem with that is the general concept of T2=specialization, Navy and pirate= all around better. |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 15:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
The Nestor suffers from trying to resemble to 2 smaller SOE ships too much in stats. The exploration bonuses serve no purpose. Those should be removed and replaced for a BLOPS style cloak speeds bonus. Trading some CPU forPG would be good to. Those changes would at leastmean it had bonuses useful on a BB hull and had a niche as a cloakable RR battleship. |
Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 16:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua wrote:No cov ops cloak. It's the same **** than Black Ops.
Good for reprocessing. It melts down nicely in reprocessing facility. There is never going to be cov ops cloaky battleship. So please stop asking for one. Oh yeah? Do you work at CCP?
Any black ops ship with covert ops cloak would still be just very expensive and very bad battleship.
|
Damien White
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
83
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua wrote:Oh yeah? Do you work at CCP?
In the "CCP asks the players about the Nestor" Thread it was statet multiple times by CCP that there will be no Cov Ops Cloack BS.
The thread itself is an interesting read with lots of interesting ideas for the ship wich then got ignored by CCP although that beeing the reason for the thread.
Anyway, now, nearly a month after implementation, has anyone found a niche for this ship where he would pay the money for it and doesnt want to change back to a different Ship? 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,
"DO A BARREL ROLL!" |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
688
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Damien White wrote:Anyway, now, nearly a month after implementation, has anyone found a niche for this ship where he would pay the money for it and doesnt want to change back to a different Ship? I would like to know this too.
At about double the price of other pirate faction battleships I would expect the Nestor to do something awesome
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Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Damien White wrote:Anyway, now, nearly a month after implementation, has anyone found a niche for this ship where he would pay the money for it and doesnt want to change back to a different Ship? I would like to know this too. At about double the price of other pirate faction battleships I would expect the Nestor to do something awesome
It has achieved awesomeness. It has managed to become a Pirate Faction battleship that (seemingly) no one thinks is OP. That has to be the greatest achievement of any ship. |
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