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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
181
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Posted - 2014.01.28 18:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Normally I would do this on Sisi before the actual patch, but I didn't know we were getting updated tutorials. Thanks to CCP for continuing to work on NPE, even if only a bit at a time
Going through through the updated tutorial for feedback and taking notes as I go. Doing this on Sisi so I don't have to reset my settings on Tranquility and so I can actually do the skill que parts of the tutorial. Creating a Minmatar character to test it.
For actual bugs I've submitted bug reports (If only we could track our bugs I could link the numbers here *hint* *hint*)
======= Notes As I Go ======= == Beginning Tutorial == The videos for the 4 races don't have noticeable enough play buttons. Switching between them for a quick overview and then wanting to listen to one specific one again would be a typical use case I would think. Noticed the music in the character creation steps is really quiet, actually couldn't hear it at all. For step 09: Training Skills - More about skills - the whole bit about Show Info and Requirements would be way better to do with an actual item as an example instead of just telling them about it. I would expect most new players to be confused if they can't see what you're talking about. 'Show info' is introduced later in 19: Inside the Academy - Using Show Info to find more information In 23: Additional Reading - Learning about corporations - I don't like how it says "Don't apply just yet, though - the optional Business tutorial, which you'll gain access to later, has an entire section on running corporations." It should say something like, if you want to create your own corporation you can do that too. But the tutorial should not actively discourage players from joining a corporation
I will continue to update as I finish further sections of the tutorials. Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
181
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
181
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Posted - 2014.01.28 19:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
687
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Posted - 2014.01.29 02:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for doing this. I reported some of the bugs/ suggestions I found on my first pass as soon as I heard of the changes.
You have a more complete list by far.
The changes have created a better tutorial for sure.
The skills section needs to show the green yellow and red icons that are used and don't just describe them.
CCP Maverick wrote: #17 Posted: 2014.01.28 13:03 | Report Like
Salpun wrote: The new reworked tutorial is great. It needs to have its own thread though.
Green line does not scale correctly at 90% screen resolution.
Tutorial 17 step 3 does not mention that if you use the stand alone Training Queue you must apply the skill before it is added to the queue. Apply button could be changed to "Add to Queue." for consistency purposes.
Issue with the switch over to career agents: New tutorial never gives the player a civilian mining laser even though it says it will. Business track requires the player to remember that going to a station without a ship creates a rookie ship with a mining laser attached before he can complete first real mission. Having a civilian mining laser given out at the end of the mining tutorial would work as well. The fact that the tutorial menu is talked about enough works in your favor now.}}
Thanks for the feedback, shall pass this on. The 90% scaling issue is a known one.
-------------------------- If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
688
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 06:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Handy link to the last major NPE revision thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=138596 If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
183
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Posted - 2014.03.08 21:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sorry this took so long to complete, things have been a little busy. Anyways, done now! Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
695
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Posted - 2014.03.08 21:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:Sorry this took so long to complete, things have been a little busy. Anyways, done now! They made some changes to the tutorials on sisi. The miner fix is in. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
183
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Posted - 2014.03.08 21:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Salpun wrote:They made some changes to the tutorials on sisi. The miner fix is in.
Excellent! Unfortunately I really busy and couldn't do these all in a short time period so some of it may already be out of date. Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
118
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Posted - 2014.03.09 21:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
These Career Agent's missions changes are the ones I stumbled upon so far:
Business 1/10 as well as Industry 1/10 supply players with an Industry skillbook. No more "do I really have to buy that?"
Business 1/10 also supplies players with a Civilian Miner (like Salpun already mentioned above) to compensate for the lack of that module when using the Aura supplied Rookie Ship.
Military 1/10 supplies players with the Repair Systems Skillbook. But it seems like only Minmatar agents do that. Checked Caldari (and Gallente), but those didn't. Amarr and Gallente get that Skillbook handed by Aura anyway.
Military 4/10 gives players the Afterburner Skillbook. The Afterburner tutorial popping up on mission finihshed makes more sense now.
I'll continue my update of the agents, also for other factions (currently on Minmatar) EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
136
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:First Update: While the Minmatar Career Agent gave me the Afterburner Skillbook, I didn't receive it from the Gallente Agent in Couster. Looks like CCP should revalidate those changes. Second Update: The Gallente version of the Military Mission 5/10 still provides Shield Hardener and Shield Management Skillbook. Would still make more sense to switch to Armor Hardener. And Shield Management still is no requirement for non-civilian Shield Hardeners, but Shield Boost Amplifiers instead. Tactical Shield Manipulation would be a more related reward here (for Minmatar/Caldari) Another update, SiSi currently is build 742822. I've checked one career agent of each faction and can confirm that: Cash for Capsuleers 1/10: Repair Systems skill book is only provided by Minmatar Agents. No "alternate tanking skill" from the other three. Cash for Capsuleers 4/10: Afterburner skill book is only handed out by Minmatar Agents. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
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EvgenI De9
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Have you????? http://cdn1.eveonline.com/747955/EVE_Online_745275-747955_win.zip |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
699
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
since that build is brand new how could we.
What changes did you find. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
EvgenI De9
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.03.25 16:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
aaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! where is the PATCH???
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
243
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Posted - 2014.05.28 07:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Short Kronos Update, as of Sisi build 788070 (no longer current):
With the scatter mechanics removed, an update (or rather rollback) four career agent missions is required.
Balancing the Books 4 and 7 Exploration 3 and 4
This happened, with one exception. Scanning of Relic Sites still mentions the need to catch a mini container. The other missions are back to their description as it was before Odyssey.
Didn't make it yet to check for other changes. Would it be possible to get a DEV Response about what else is to change for the career agent's missions? EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1188
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey thanks for doing all that work on the NPE feedback... And I didn't even knew they updated the NPE ! Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
269
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Posted - 2014.06.18 08:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
They updated it again (wtihout notice). At least the Tutorial texts got changed. I've checked Manufacturing and Reprocessing so far. Looks like it's time to redo all of them another time. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
751
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Posted - 2014.06.18 11:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:They updated it again (wtihout notice). At least the Tutorial texts got changed. I've checked Manufacturing and Reprocessing so far. Looks like it's time to redo all of them another time. Sisi or TQ? If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
270
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Posted - 2014.06.18 11:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
On Sisi. I didn't check too much further yet, but as there are quite some missions relying on reprocessing and manufacturing, at least they require some work to be done. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
3
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Posted - 2014.06.21 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
well theres lack of wormhole explroation tutorial , there should be some training wormholes to show capsuleers what they re |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
751
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Posted - 2014.06.21 12:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fresh pass with industrial changes.
Afterburner given in Mountains of Mole hills does not have this skill book to use it.
First items you are asked to create two Civilian afterburners take an hour to build.
Shuttle asked to create in M of M 8 of 10 takes an hour and a half.
Salvaging tutorial does not remind players you got to loot the can.
The might need to go out side solar system to get the ore required is clunky. Even saying go gather some Plagioclase would at least leave one leap to make not 2 or more the at this stage of the game. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
301
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Posted - 2014.06.22 08:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Another update, SiSi currently is build 742822. I've checked one career agent of each faction and can confirm that: Cash for Capsuleers 1/10: Repair Systems skill book is only provided by Minmatar Agents. No "alternate tanking skill" from the other three. Cash for Capsuleers 4/10: Afterburner skill book is only handed out by Minmatar Agents. This still holds true for Crius Test build 802998. Checked Minmatar and Gallente Career Agents.
Also: The "Guns and Ammo" Tutorial (opens on accepting Cash Flow for Capsuleers 2/10) states "Most likely, the weapon you have been using so far requires no ammunition.". Not that likely anymore, as new players get their faction's turret weapon from the basic tutorial (Tutorial 11, during Aura's second Mission) EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
752
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 04:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Fresh pass with industrial changes.
Afterburner given in Mountains of Mole hills does not have this skill book to use it.
First items you are asked to create two Civilian afterburners take an hour to build.
Shuttle asked to create in M of M 8 of 10 takes an hour and a half.
Salvaging tutorial does not remind players you got to loot the can. Same with hacking.
The might need to go out side solar system to get the ore required is clunky. Even saying go gather some Plagioclase would at least leave one leap to make not 2 or more the at this stage of the game.
"While you wait" training should have shown up earlier it only showed up for M out of M 10 of 10.
Update: for build 807582
Time to manufacture fixed for Amarr tutorials. afterburner has a skill book now. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
301
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 11:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Some tiny thing: During Making Mountains out of Molehills 1/10 (which requires player to hand in 1.000 units of veld on Sisi) an agent conversation window is opened while mining at the mission location. That conversation still states 999 units to be brought to him. Should get changed to 1.000 EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
467
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 11:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Deep thanks to you all for your invaluable help.
If you see something in the tutorials or career path missions that still needs fixed then please enter a bug report and slap 'CCP RedDawn' in the title and I'll get to it asap. Team Space Glitter |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
753
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 11:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Deep thanks to you all for your invaluable help.
If you see something in the tutorials or career path missions that still needs fixed then please enter a bug report and slap 'CCP RedDawn' in the title and I'll get to it asap. np will do
The issue is knowing when you make changes, so we can run them again without wasting our time when changes are not made it takes time to run a full test as you know. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
467
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 14:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Deep thanks to you all for your invaluable help.
If you see something in the tutorials or career path missions that still needs fixed then please enter a bug report and slap 'CCP RedDawn' in the title and I'll get to it asap. np will do The issue is knowing when you make changes, running the tutorials takes time and changes are hard to spot. It takes time to make a full run thru the tutorials as you know. What was the fix for the first use of non starter system ore and where to find it?
In regards to the ore, I've added in some extra text to the mission 'Making Mountains of Molehills 6 of 10' to inform the players as to which types of ore they are required to reprocess. As for where to find it, I'm leaving that specific part out for now as I don't really want to basically complete the mission for them. Team Space Glitter |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 17:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Salpun wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Deep thanks to you all for your invaluable help.
If you see something in the tutorials or career path missions that still needs fixed then please enter a bug report and slap 'CCP RedDawn' in the title and I'll get to it asap. np will do The issue is knowing when you make changes, running the tutorials takes time and changes are hard to spot. It takes time to make a full run thru the tutorials as you know. What was the fix for the first use of non starter system ore and where to find it? In regards to the ore, I've added in some extra text to the mission 'Making Mountains of Molehills 6 of 10' to inform the players as to which types of ore they are required to reprocess. As for where to find it, I'm leaving that specific part out for now as I don't really want to basically complete the mission for them. Will make a new pass on the NPE tonight or over the weekend.
Telling the player where the information is ie Evelopedia or google it Is a important part of the mining / Industrial tutorial. Highlighing the Evelopedia search option in the help menu again at the point where the player needs to use it is just good training.
I highlighted the two evelopedia pages in the industry UI thread I though should be officlilized and then linked in the mining tutorial if that info did not get passed on to you ill find them again and link them in this thread. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
456
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 21:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Starting characters will not have the skill to use the civilian drone in Gallente "Weapon of Choice" mission, since it requires Light Drone Operation which requires Drones 3.
CCP said that one of the goals of the drone skill changes was to reduce the barrier to entry, but they've actually raised the barrier by making drones unusable before Drones 3. |
Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
57
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 22:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Starting characters will not have the skill to use the civilian drone in Gallente "Weapon of Choice" mission, since it requires Light Drone Operation which requires Drones 3.
CCP said that one of the goals of the drone skill changes was to reduce the barrier to entry, but they've actually raised the barrier by making drones unusable before Drones 3.
I have also created a thread on this issue in the Features & Ideas subforum. Teaching Manager - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/ |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 05:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Did the Caldari NPE string.
Looting window collapsed, text indicated it would not. 90% scale is still broke for the green lines. First gate jump mission highlighted the gate with out the mission accepted. After going back to accept it the yellow gate did not highlight. Things to do while you wait should show up after the second industrial mission because of the time industry has to train. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
308
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Posted - 2014.07.04 07:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Further things of note. I'll keep this limited to the Basic Missions and Tutorials. Created bug reports for each as well, with CCP RedDawn in the title:
Aura Tutorial # 04 While other steps in this tutorial highlight UI elements mentioned (Screenshot 1) there's no Highlighting Panel for the "Agent Missions" Infopanel (Step 4 of 4 in that tutorial, Screeenshot 2)
Some new players actually have trouble finding this infopanel Might be that such highlighting panels can't be added to infopanels. In that case, a Screenshot embedded into the tutorial should suffice
Aura Tutorial # 09 Step 3/3 states A green checkmark indicates that the skill has been trained to the required level, a red X means that the skill has not yet been trained at all, and a yellow circle means that you have learned part of the skill but do not yet meet the required level. You want all marks to be green.
How about adding checkmark, cross and circle to that text?
Aura Tutorial # 14 Step 4/4 states Each type of defensive module will only mend a specific layer - armor repairers won't repair shields, and shield boosters won't boost armor. Your shields will regenerate on their own over time, but armor and structure can only be repaired by activating the appropriate modules or using station repair facilities.
This is an opportunity to blow a strike against double/triple tanking. By adding another paragraph like: It's usually more effective to only increase the defensive capabilities of one of these layers. Later in the game, you will learn which layers are a good/common choice for specific ships and tasks.
Aura Tutorial # 18 (not sent using the bug report system) Quite some players have issues finding the Academy office. Possibly because "the Academy" is often confused with a station. Especially players that chose Imperial Academy, State War Academy or Federal Navy Academy as their character's school might be confused here. This could lead to them docking at a station in the system the mission is located - even though Step 4/4 asks players to warp to a mission location.
Aura Tutorial #24 Step 2/3 states You should now see a new window detailing the various courses on offer at this station. I encourage you to try these.
Just a slight change: I encourage you to try all of them
As a final note: Like CCP Rise stated in his FF 2014 presentation about NPE, the Basic Tutorial is to be reblaced with a different approach to teach rookies soonGäó. Would it be possible to get some information on the current state of this? EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
467
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 08:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Further things of note. I'll keep this limited to the Basic Missions and Tutorials. Created bug reports for each as well, with CCP RedDawn in the title: Aura Tutorial # 04While other steps in this tutorial highlight UI elements mentioned ( Screenshot 1) there's no Highlighting Panel for the "Agent Missions" Infopanel (Step 4 of 4 in that tutorial, Screeenshot 2) Some new players actually have trouble finding this infopanel Might be that such highlighting panels can't be added to infopanels. In that case, a Screenshot embedded into the tutorial should suffice Aura Tutorial # 09Step 3/3 states A green checkmark indicates that the skill has been trained to the required level, a red X means that the skill has not yet been trained at all, and a yellow circle means that you have learned part of the skill but do not yet meet the required level. You want all marks to be green.How about adding checkmark, cross and circle to that text? Aura Tutorial # 14Step 4/4 states Each type of defensive module will only mend a specific layer - armor repairers won't repair shields, and shield boosters won't boost armor. Your shields will regenerate on their own over time, but armor and structure can only be repaired by activating the appropriate modules or using station repair facilities.This is an opportunity to blow a strike against double/triple tanking. By adding another paragraph like: It's usually more effective to only increase the defensive capabilities of one of these layers. Later in the game, you will learn which layers are a good/common choice for specific ships and tasks.Aura Tutorial # 18 (not sent using the bug report system) Quite some players have issues finding the Academy office. Possibly because "the Academy" is often confused with a station. Especially players that chose Imperial Academy, State War Academy or Federal Navy Academy as their character's school might be confused here. This could lead to them docking at a station in the system the mission is located - even though Step 4/4 asks players to warp to a mission location. Aura Tutorial #24Step 2/3 states You should now see a new window detailing the various courses on offer at this station. I encourage you to try these.Just a slight change: I encourage you to try all of themAs a final note: Like CCP Rise stated in his FF 2014 presentation about NPE, the Basic Tutorial is to be reblaced with a different approach to teach rookies soonGäó. Would it be possible to get some information on the current state of this?
I have all these bug reports assigned to me now, thank you. As for the rebalance of the NPE, I'll chase CCP Rise up later on today and get back to you.
Also, side notes: The issue with the Civilian Salvager in Balancing the Books 2 of 10 is known, fixed and will be out with the next SISI update. I'll also look into linking more mining info into the tutorials here and there.
Thanks!
Team Space Glitter |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
467
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 09:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Titus Tallang wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Starting characters will not have the skill to use the civilian drone in Gallente "Weapon of Choice" mission, since it requires Light Drone Operation which requires Drones 3.
CCP said that one of the goals of the drone skill changes was to reduce the barrier to entry, but they've actually raised the barrier by making drones unusable before Drones 3. I have also created a thread on this issue in the Features & Ideas subforum.
On SISI the only skill requirement to use the Civilian Hobgoblin in the Weapon of Choice mission is Drones 1. Team Space Glitter |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 22:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Could you check the 8, 9 and 10's of the Career agents. The mission complete messages while still in the mission pocket are not showing up like they should. At least that is my impression. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 17:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Great post about these issues at http://crossingzebras.com/heres-a-rubiks-cube/
My comments:
Great Points. A couple that you did not tackle directly.
The NPE does not have a function like Valkyrie will at launch (via audio prompts) which says you are missing a piece of information or doing something wrong. Do this to fix yourself, IE "Looks like you are missing a skill to make what you are doing easier, you are rich in this world go spend ISK on this skill book you are missing."
Saying you are on your own in text at the end of each of the career agent mission path looses its punch after you do one of them.
The lack of link from basic materials to build things to source can also be talked about at the basic T1 level. The gathering of information to find non Trit ore is far from clear. Every step linking types of ore needed in the industrial UI, to the rocks you need to mine and then reprocess to obtain them, to where you can find the right rocks in the first place. Is more then one obvious link apart. Places that you would think would have this information like the Info panels just talk their rarity. Even searching the Evelopedia wont find that information until you back out and look up mining in its totality. This issue is currently in work with CCP Reddawn the Dev working on the NPE.
The fact you cant figure out which skills effect "number of lockable targets" from somewhere on the target management interface but have to figure it out in the ISIS or checking each skill that is on the market is just an other example.
The fact that damage dealt by each faction is standardized should be leveraged to help out new players not hidden so players are directed to Eve Survival at the first opportunity.
All solutions will require Dev resources:
When an industrial ISIS was brought up to the devs it was stated it would take a month only working on that just to generate the text. That's not including the time working on how to present the information in the first place.
An info sheet like http://dl.dropboxusercontent.c... could be included in a new section in the help menu called player resources but that might be considered to much information until that information is included in a more game play friendly manner.
The current set of improvements are on Singularity I would suggest players interested in the NPE to download and run thru the current version so rough spots can be identified and fixed.
The new tool tips and new learning structure once they hit Sisi and then TQ will be a significant improvement once the current teething issues like delays are worked out but the long term fixes cannot come soon enough.
Salpun If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
186
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 12:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'd like to thank all the people who have jumped in here and taken the initiative to help test the NPE. Also thank you very much CCP RedDawn for replying. It's really encouraging to see others interested in the NPE.
Also, Salpun, that link to dropbox is broken. Go beyond the edge of space... Explore |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 15:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:I'd like to thank all the people who have jumped in here and taken the initiative to help test the NPE. Also thank you very much CCP RedDawn for replying. It's really encouraging to see others interested in the NPE.
Also, Salpun, that link to dropbox is broken. Fixed Thanks. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
471
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 13:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Great post about these issues at http://crossingzebras.com/heres-a-rubiks-cube/My comments: Great Points. A couple that you did not tackle directly. The NPE does not have a function like Valkyrie will at launch (via audio prompts) which says you are missing a piece of information or doing something wrong. Do this to fix yourself, IE "Looks like you are missing a skill to make what you are doing easier, you are rich in this world go spend ISK on this skill book you are missing." Saying you are on your own in text at the end of each of the career agent mission path looses its punch after you do one of them. The lack of link from basic materials to build things to source can also be talked about at the basic T1 level. The gathering of information to find non Trit ore is far from clear. Every step linking types of ore needed in the industrial UI, to the rocks you need to mine and then reprocess to obtain them, to where you can find the right rocks in the first place. Is more then one obvious link apart. Places that you would think would have this information like the Info panels just talk their rarity. Even searching the Evelopedia wont find that information until you back out and look up mining in its totality. This issue is currently in work with CCP Reddawn the Dev working on the NPE. The fact you cant figure out which skills effect "number of lockable targets" from somewhere on the target management interface but have to figure it out in the ISIS or checking each skill that is on the market is just an other example. The fact that damage dealt by each faction is standardized should be leveraged to help out new players not hidden so players are directed to Eve Survival at the first opportunity. All solutions will require Dev resources: When an industrial ISIS was brought up to the devs it was stated it would take a month only working on that just to generate the text. That's not including the time working on how to present the information in the first place. An info sheet like http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6781003/EvE/Quick%20Reference%20Sheet%20by%20Korgan%20Nailo.pdf could be included in a new section in the help menu called player resources but that might be considered to much information until that information is included in a more game play friendly manner. The current set of improvements are on Singularity I would suggest players interested in the NPE to download and run thru the current version so rough spots can be identified and fixed. The new tool tips and new learning structure once they hit Sisi and then TQ will be a significant improvement once the current teething issues like delays are worked out but the long term fixes cannot come soon enough. Salpun edit fixed link. Info is old and will be older in Cruis
Just a heads up that we have now past our localisation freeze internally. That means that no more text work will be done on the NPC for the Crius release. I got a bunch of issues fixed but there are still plenty of minor improvements to be made. I'll be talking to the other teams in regards to how we can improve our NPE experience in the future along with the feedback provided in this thread.
And as usual, if you see anything (text related) to the NPE, Career agents of general missions then please don't hesitate to create a bug report and add CCP RedDawn in the title and I'll either fix it for a post-Crius patch or for our next planned release. (dependent on priority) Team Space Glitter |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
754
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Salpun wrote:Great post about these issues at http://crossingzebras.com/heres-a-rubiks-cube/My comments: Great Points. A couple that you did not tackle directly. The NPE does not have a function like Valkyrie will at launch (via audio prompts) which says you are missing a piece of information or doing something wrong. Do this to fix yourself, IE "Looks like you are missing a skill to make what you are doing easier, you are rich in this world go spend ISK on this skill book you are missing." Saying you are on your own in text at the end of each of the career agent mission path looses its punch after you do one of them. The lack of link from basic materials to build things to source can also be talked about at the basic T1 level. The gathering of information to find non Trit ore is far from clear. Every step linking types of ore needed in the industrial UI, to the rocks you need to mine and then reprocess to obtain them, to where you can find the right rocks in the first place. Is more then one obvious link apart. Places that you would think would have this information like the Info panels just talk their rarity. Even searching the Evelopedia wont find that information until you back out and look up mining in its totality. This issue is currently in work with CCP Reddawn the Dev working on the NPE. The fact you cant figure out which skills effect "number of lockable targets" from somewhere on the target management interface but have to figure it out in the ISIS or checking each skill that is on the market is just an other example. The fact that damage dealt by each faction is standardized should be leveraged to help out new players not hidden so players are directed to Eve Survival at the first opportunity. All solutions will require Dev resources: When an industrial ISIS was brought up to the devs it was stated it would take a month only working on that just to generate the text. That's not including the time working on how to present the information in the first place. An info sheet like http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6781003/EvE/Quick%20Reference%20Sheet%20by%20Korgan%20Nailo.pdf could be included in a new section in the help menu called player resources but that might be considered to much information until that information is included in a more game play friendly manner. The current set of improvements are on Singularity I would suggest players interested in the NPE to download and run thru the current version so rough spots can be identified and fixed. The new tool tips and new learning structure once they hit Sisi and then TQ will be a significant improvement once the current teething issues like delays are worked out but the long term fixes cannot come soon enough. Salpun edit fixed link. Info is old and will be older in Cruis Just a heads up that we have now past our localisation freeze internally. That means that no more text work will be done on the NPC for the Crius release. I got a bunch of issues fixed but there are still plenty of minor improvements to be made. I'll be talking to the other teams in regards to how we can improve our NPE experience in the future along with the feedback provided in this thread. And as usual, if you see anything (text related) to the NPE, Career agents or general missions then please don't hesitate to create a bug report and add CCP RedDawn in the title and I'll either fix it for a post-Crius patch or for our next planned release. (dependent on priority) Thanks for the info. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
341
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 07:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Salpun wrote:Fresh pass with industrial changes.
Afterburner given in Mountains of Mole hills does not have this skill book to use it.
First items you are asked to create two Civilian afterburners take an hour to build.
Shuttle asked to create in M of M 8 of 10 takes an hour and a half.
Salvaging tutorial does not remind players you got to loot the can. Same with hacking.
The might need to go out side solar system to get the ore required is clunky. Even saying go gather some Plagioclase would at least leave one leap to make not 2 or more the at this stage of the game.
"While you wait" training should have shown up earlier it only showed up for M out of M 10 of 10.
Update: for build 807582 Time to manufacture fixed for Amarr tutorials. afterburner has a skill book now. Can you provide more details about where the Afterburner skillbook is given? My last check had these results:
- Minmatar Career Mission Cashflow for Capsuleers 4/10 provides the skillbook
- No skillbook in that mission at the other three factions
- No skillbook in the Afterburner Tutorial (F12 > Tutorials Tab > Military folder > Afterburner)
This issue appears to be persistent
As does the one that only the Minmatar Career Agent for Military provides the Repair Systems skillbook . No such skillbook from the Caldari Agent, no Shield Operation Skillbook from the Amarr/Gallente Agent EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
342
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Posted - 2014.07.12 10:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:UPDATE: I'm currently checking the Amarr series of "mountains out of molehills". Mission 4/10 (where you're asked to supply 7000 units of Tritanium) grants the Afterburner Skillbook on accepting that mission. I'll check wether Minmatar Agents (and the others) do that too. Minmatar Military 4/10 would be redundant in giving out the same skillbook then. Checked the Minmatar Industry Missions. The Afterburner skillbook is provided on accepting mission 4/10 there as well. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
756
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 17:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
The mineral conversions and ore locations are in the client now. The info panel looks good. The only issue might be that the market group view is so long now.
Will make another run thru today. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
474
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Posted - 2014.07.14 11:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Salpun wrote:The mineral conversions and ore locations are in the client now. The info panel looks good. The only issue might be that the market group view is so long now.
Will make another run thru after the next patch when the majority of bugs like the module bug in the business career agents missions will be fixed.
BoB mission to with the civilian salvager worked but it took like 8 cycles to work.
The 1 x Overdrive Injector System Iin BoB 5of10 does not give the Hull Upgrades that is required to use it. With out text indicating you need to buy the skill book. Happens in Industry path as well I think.
BoB 7 of 10 also has the afterburner with out skill issue.
I've got defects on me to cover both the Overdrive Injector and Afterburner issues now.
Team Space Glitter |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
349
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Short Update:
Cash for Capsuleers 3/10 and The Swap (Advanced Military 1/10)
Both still provide the skillbook Propulsion Jamming as Reward.
Target Management might be a good alternative for one of there missions - from my point of view (considering how often people ask for "how can I lock more targets" in a specific channel) EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
757
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 21:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Short Update:
Cash for Capsuleers 3/10 and The Swap (Advanced Military 1/10)
Both still provide the skillbook Propulsion Jamming as Reward.
Target Management might be a good alternative for one of there missions - from my point of view (considering how often people ask for "how can I lock more targets" in a specific channel) Great thought. Otherwise the NPE looks good. Salvage cycles required on BoB 2 of 10 are a bit much and BoB 10 of 10 requires 4 hours to build the items required thats a lot. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
474
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Darkblad wrote:Short Update:
Cash for Capsuleers 3/10 and The Swap (Advanced Military 1/10)
Both still provide the skillbook Propulsion Jamming as Reward.
Target Management might be a good alternative for one of there missions - from my point of view (considering how often people ask for "how can I lock more targets" in a specific channel) Great thought. Otherwise the NPE looks good. Salvage cycles required on BoB 2 of 10 are a bit much and BoB 10 of 10 requires 4 hours to build the items required thats a lot.
Noted. Team Space Glitter |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
391
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Posted - 2014.07.22 22:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
This is waaay up in this thread (First Page, actually) CCP RedDawn wrote:A4443 Suicide Gank wrote:In the patch notes, i can read, that some mission issues got fixed, wich issues got fixed exactly?
All minor fixes, (too many to mention) which affects the missions; Balancing the Books (1 to 10), Mountains of Molehills (1 to 10), Data + Relic Site Scanning, Cosmos sites, A Demonstration and more. When I say minor, I mean text based changes, container access issues, dungeon completion issues etc. Also, FYI, we have a large list of mission, dungeon, career and tutorial work that we will be starting soon. Would you mind (and actually be willing/allowed) to provide that list, in case it's in a form that's for our eyes. That should provide great assistance in finding issues, inconsistencies and the like - next to general troubleshooting these specific parts of NPE assistance.
And it'd also help myself in updating my guides for the tutorials (career agents) EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 03:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
I filed a bug report on Singularity, today, under the name "Leonard Chong" about the manufacturing job for Civilian Afterburners not starting when I click "START". No error message is given that I noticed. The START button simply does nothing. Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
758
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 03:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Seamus Donohue wrote:I filed a bug report on Singularity, today, under the name "Leonard Chong" about the manufacturing job for Civilian Afterburners not starting when I click "START". No error message is given that I noticed. The START button simply does nothing. First thought was it an issue with how many jobs you can run. What color was the start button and what where the error messages in the tool tip. Industry has to been trained before you can start I think. The messaging might need to be better. I train skills received like a mandatory thing.
If it is not a skill issue then reset the client to fix the job lock bug that is in all clients. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 04:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Seamus Donohue wrote:I filed a bug report on Singularity, today, under the name "Leonard Chong" about the manufacturing job for Civilian Afterburners not starting when I click "START". No error message is given that I noticed. The START button simply does nothing. First thought was it an issue with how many jobs you can run. What color was the start button and what where the error messages in the tool tip. Industry has to been trained before you can start I think. The messaging might need to be better. I train skills received like a mandatory thing. If it is not a skill issue then reset the client to fix the job lock bug that is in all clients. When the tool tips get updated again the delay for new characters for important information should be shorter and should clear up this issue. The character in question was created in 2009, has Mass Production 4, and can run 5 jobs. One job, unrelated to the tutorials, was complete but not delivered. I should have been able to run 4 more jobs.
The start button was yellow. There were no error messages of any kind, either in tooltips or in NeoCom > EVE Menu > Accessories > "Notifications and Log".
Starting up my client again and making another attempt did not fix the issue. Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
758
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 07:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Seamus Donohue wrote:Salpun wrote:Seamus Donohue wrote:I filed a bug report on Singularity, today, under the name "Leonard Chong" about the manufacturing job for Civilian Afterburners not starting when I click "START". No error message is given that I noticed. The START button simply does nothing. First thought was it an issue with how many jobs you can run. What color was the start button and what where the error messages in the tool tip. Industry has to been trained before you can start I think. The messaging might need to be better. I train skills received like a mandatory thing. If it is not a skill issue then reset the client to fix the job lock bug that is in all clients. When the tool tips get updated again the delay for new characters for important information should be shorter and should clear up this issue. The character in question was created in 2009, has Mass Production 4, and can run 5 jobs. One job, unrelated to the tutorials, was complete but not delivered. I should have been able to run 4 more jobs. The start button was yellow. There were no error messages of any kind, either in tooltips or in NeoCom > EVE Menu > Accessories > "Notifications and Log". Starting up my client again and making another attempt did not fix the issue. Are you doing this on TQ or Sisi I think manufacturing is broke on Sisi at the moment.
Yellow means something is messed up/ missing somewhere preventing a job to be start able. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 03:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Are you doing this on TQ or Sisi I think manufacturing is broke on Sisi at the moment.
Yellow means something is messed up/ missing somewhere preventing a job to be start able. This was on Singularity at the time. I had the Tritanium needed, so there should not have been a reason for the job not to proceed.
I just tried it again on Sisi now. I tried selecting a team not in the system, and the START button turned red. A mouseover tooltip for the START button indicated that the team in question was not in the solar system. I removed the team from the job specification and the button turned yellow again. I clicked START, and the job has started.
So, I think the current Sisi build has fixed manufacturing. Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
758
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 03:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Seamus Donohue wrote:Salpun wrote:Are you doing this on TQ or Sisi I think manufacturing is broke on Sisi at the moment.
Yellow means something is messed up/ missing somewhere preventing a job to be start able. This was on Singularity at the time. I had the Tritanium needed, so there should not have been a reason for the job not to proceed. I just tried it again on Sisi now. I tried selecting a team not in the system, and the START button turned red. A mouseover tooltip for the START button indicated that the team in question was not in the solar system. I removed the team from the job specification and the button turned yellow again. I clicked START, and the job has started. So, I think the current Sisi build has fixed manufacturing. Good to hear. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
758
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 17:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP RedDawn could you check out @gamechick42 last couple tweets about the tutorial thanks. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
478
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 14:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP RedDawn could you check out @gamechick42 last couple tweets about the tutorial thanks.
Had a look at them, thanks for pointing them out. Information has been noted. Team Space Glitter |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
478
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 14:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP RedDawn could you check out @gamechick42 last couple tweets about the tutorial thanks.
Double post during forum lag. Team Space Glitter |
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
769
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 04:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
As there any reason to do the tutorial before Hyperion gets deployed. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
438
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 05:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
I plan to do another run through at least the Aura Missions, to check wether the changes of the overview (settings, sharing) resulted in some changes there. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
438
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Posted - 2014.08.22 11:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Alright, Aura appears to be not affected by the change of the overview. But the "Overview Settings" (within General) is. That one pops up when you get a mission where you have to destroy a Large Collidable Structure, most likely during the Cash for Capsuleers Series.
That tutorial didn't get adjusted, resulting in missing hints to the UI overhaul that happened in the settings. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
769
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 12:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Alright, Aura appears to be not affected by the change of the overview. But the "Overview Settings" (within General) is. That one pops up when you get a mission where you have to destroy a Large Collidable Structure, most likely during the Cash for Capsuleers Series. That tutorial didn't get adjusted, resulting in missing hints to the UI overhaul that happened in the settings. You bug report that?
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
438
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 12:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Will do, as soon as Sisi is up again, again with CCP RedDawn as recipient. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
769
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 12:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Will do, as soon as Sisi is up again, again with CCP RedDawn as recipient.
Now that we got numbers we need to go back to post them in the forums again. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
438
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 12:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
And it#s EBR-22590 \o/ EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
459
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 16:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:And it#s EBR-22590 \o/ This is still the case on Sisi build 824700 (the "tilters tab" that the tutorial refers to is gone, info panel therefore missing).
With this change to filters in the market in the pipe (Punkturis' tease here), an update of the Business -> Market tutorial (Step 2 of 11) might also be required once this gets deployed. EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Nerfed Alliance Go Away
774
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 01:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
Please take a look at EBR-24367. Thanks If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe. |
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