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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:38:00 -
[1]
yes boys and girls its pertiotion time, once again minmatar have been gimped (yeah i know no surprise really)
so here i was looking though the stats on sis when they first came out....
The Archon was commissioned by the Amarr Navy to act as a personnel and fighter carrier. The order to create the ship came as part of a bah bah bah we are noob ammarrs bah bah bah bah
Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm tankalisis
The ChimeraÆs design is based upon the Kairiola, bah bah bah some random noob crap bah bah bahaahhaba bah
Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm again tankalisis
Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of the Nyx, bah bah bah we are sexy man hoes bah bah bah
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level 10% bonus to deployed FightersÆ damage per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range
mmm gankalisis
Essentially a pared-down version of its big brother the Hel, the Nidhoggur nonetheless displays the same austerity of vision evident in its sibling. Quite purposefully created for nothing less than all-out warfare, and quite comfortable with that fact, the Nidhoggur will no doubt find itself a mainstay on many a battlefield.
Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range
....oh dear lord *stab myself in the face 50 times*
"5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level"
yes this is what drove me to such despare, such a gimped bonus, i dear say since the typhoon wtf were the deves thinking Oveur "OH MY GOD GUYS WERE IS THE PATCH THE WHINING ON THE FORUMS IS STOPING ME FROM DRINKING!!!" Dev team : we're almost there just need to finsih the minmatar carrier " Oveur: "just put a random bonus in no one will notice" goes back to drunk forum horing
and so on...
we end up with this CRAPTASTIS bonus
the activation time on a Capital transver array is 10 seconds so at carrier lvl 5 we're looking at a reduction of......about 1-2 sec
wow dear god someone touch me im so overweled by its coolness....oh wait no im not for the love of god change it to SOMETHING WORTH HAVING!!!
like a 5% REDUCTION TO CAP USE OF ARRAYS PER LVL!!! or how about staying close to the description?
"Quite purposefully created for nothing less than all-out warfare"
...yeah so you give the galentie one the damg bonus
*deep breath* ok im calm now
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:49:00 -
[2]
Once again we get the short end of the stick, im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Omatje
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:51:00 -
[3]
lol, they did it again...
it's almost as usefull as a targetpainter bonus sig? |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:54:00 -
[4]
10% added jump range per lvl? Personally I think that fits the whole Minmatar theme.
~From the creator of ActiveX and Sobeseki Pawi: The Final Main :p
C.E.N.S.U.S. Arrays - The key to Covert 0.0 |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:59:00 -
[5]
;), id say the bonus has to b changed - clearly. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:08:00 -
[6]
I agree minnies need a diff bonus , Thanatos needs to have its bonus changed to +5% fighters and then we have some sort of balance.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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TheDevilsJury
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:11:00 -
[7]
what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though. -------------------------------- A proud fan of Nanofibers + Afterburners. Speed Kills. I'm a guy. Don't just look at the avatar and call me "she". |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TheDevilsJury what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though.
oh god no
would gimp us even more as our fighters would orbit to fast and then won;t hit crap
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Acwron
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Acwron on 31/03/2006 07:19:02
Quote: Gallente Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 1509099 of 2048000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 4 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes, 45 seconds
Minmatar Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 2048000 of 2048000
Even if they fix the Carrier (unlikly): Moros > Naglfar.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:23:00 -
[10]
not the pertition! ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted |
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sun Ra im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho
Yea... we get the ugly carrier =[
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My grandfather
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:30:00 -
[12]
Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.
As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: My grandfather Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.
As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p
i'll use a qutoe from another tread i posted on "minmatar is the worst of them all, only train for this if your hardcore minmatar as its the SUCKYEST....yes SCUKYEST Carrier of them all, anyone who tells you other wise is ether
a.on drugs b.has never flown one c.a moron d. a troll or my favote e. all of the above"
to you
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
you have no idea and btw a.on drugs b.has never flown one c.a moron d. a troll e. all of the above your a E
This is where I should have stopped reading.
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
short-term pvp engagement? wtf is a carrier doing there, thise puppys are for FLEET FIGHTS
And this is where I did.
Remember this?:
Originally by: Aloysius Knight and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:47:00 -
[15]
Ever tried to get a POS's shields back up?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Remember this?: [quote=Aloysius Knight and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
what flaw? most of the time in a fleet battle people will warp out after taking a few hits me personaly i'll take it until i need to get out, but having someone you cna warp off to to be repaired then going bak into the fight, THATS what im talking about
BTW can you even fly them?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight what flaw?
The huge, gaping logical contradiction.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
My grandfather
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: My grandfather on 31/03/2006 11:37:04
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Nyphur Remember this?:
Originally by: Aloysius Knight and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?
If it's for a fleet battle, why is it a tanking/logistical specialist ship if nobody tanks in fleet battles? Ships are FOR whatever they're good at.
You're basically saying that this ship, which is good at tanking, is designed for fleet battles, in which (according to you), nobody tanks. You don't see the logical flaw there?
what flaw? most of the time in a fleet battle people will warp out after taking a few hits me personaly i'll take it until i need to get out, but having someone you cna warp off to to be repaired then going bak into the fight, THATS what im talking about
BTW can you even fly them?
ok, even in that case. That means you'll be repaired a lot faster at that safespot. How is that gimped?
oh and I don't fly them, no. Do you?
edit: fixed quote-bars
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:55:20
Originally by: My grandfather ok, even in that case. That means you'll be repaired a lot faster at that safespot. How is that gimped? oh and I don't fly them, no. Do you?
I don't.
To Aloysius: I mean really, if you're flying off to get repaired and them flying back, wouldn't you rather the repairing be done in a third less time? If you're suggesting that the carrier safespot nearby and act as a repair base, it's a good idea but it totally nullifies your argument about the amarr and caldari ones being better than the minmatar as the amarr and caldari ones don't have a bonus that will help with the use you're describing while the minmatar one does. Why would you need to tank your own ship if you're at a safespot? Ignoring, of course, the fact that you can be probed and killed.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:50:00 -
[20]
yes i cam fly them
and how you think the curent bonus is fine well
1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!! 2 seconds is crap compared to a damg bonus of 10% per lvl or reistance of 5% per lvl
so youd' rather be able to repair 2 secs faster instead of a reduction in cap use so u can use them longer???
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:52:52
Originally by: Aloysius Knight 1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!!
I quoted figures in an earlier post. With a warfare link, a minlink implant and the 5% repair speed implant, it's over 1/3 faster. Over 36%, as I recall. And the fact is, it only gets that high by compounding with the already present 25% bonus.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 11:52:52
Originally by: Aloysius Knight 1/3 faster? stop trying to make it seem its that good, its 2 seconds for gods sake!!!
I quoted figures in an earlier post. With a warfare link, a minlink implant and the 5% repair speed implant, it's over 1/3 faster. Over 36%, as I recall. And the fact is, it only gets that high by compounding with the already present 25% bonus.
ohhh i see we have to use all that to get that sort of bonus (are you suer that remore armour reps are even affected by the warfair links?)
what about the reistinse of the amarr carrer and the caldari when u factor in a warfare mod mindlink and a 8% to armour hp implant?
im not talking about when u have the whole thing pimped, im talking about when all you have is that 2 secound reduction
here i'll put it in big letter for you
AT MINMATAR CARRER 5 YOU ARE LOOKING AT A REDUCTION OF ABOUT 2 SECOUNDS ON A CAPITAL TRANSVER ARRAY
it drops the repair cycle from 10 secounds to aobut 8
its not enuff compared to the other carrers, its almost like not having a bonus in the first place
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Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:02:00 -
[23]
Seems like a fairly obvious argument. Irrespective of the situation, you simply can't run the reps long enough for the bonus to be significant. 25% to all res or 50% higher DPS are pretty clear bonuses. You know it's significant. A bonus which saves 2s only when you are using (ie active) a remote rep and using it constantly (otherwise effectively nil bonus) and it's only useful in gangs (not fleet battles) used on other ships. It's the only bonus to give zero benefit to the player flying the carrier. And that the bonus even for the gang is debatable shows the problem.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight ohhh i see we have to use all that to get that sort of bonus (are you suer that remore armour reps are even affected by the warfair links?)
Yes, it works. Being a carrier pilot, I'm shocked you didn't know that. I'm also pretty surprised that you seem to think it's okay to fly a capital ship without having it "pimped out", as you say. Why would you put something that costly at risk without taking the time to make it the most effective you possibly can? It's not expensive to get a warfare link and a 3/5% repairer implant. And compared to the carrier, the mindlink implant isn't that expensive at all. If you can afford to throw money at a carrier, you can afford to buy a mindlink implant.
And when you say it drops it by 2 seconds, you're assuming you have the skill at level 4, not 5. At level 5, it's 7.5 seconds. At level 5 with the appropriate skills, implants, gang mods and it's about 6.3 and you have a 15% cap use reduction from one of the gang mods if you want it, plus 25% from the remote repairer skill (when you tested it in quickfit, you remembered to set that skill, right?). That's 36.25% less cap use over the base values and a 6.3 second repair duration.
And you use the roll emoticon far too much. It loses effect when it's in every post ;).
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 31/03/2006 12:23:08
what i love to roll my eyes weeee look at them gooooooo
anyway since you seem to be good at maths (hey i suck at % eat me) what would be the finaly reisitances on a amarr carrier with reisatne gang mod and so?
any what about one of the other carriers with all those mods on for remote arrays? whats the cap use and cycle time of them?
and u can't really say that youd rather have this bonus then something else right?
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Funboy
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Minmatar are the Ultimate Undeniable Underdogs of EVE, were meant to be crap. The Dev team arent stupid, this is the way it was designed. Im just used to it now :)
Revel in it.
DERP!!!
....
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:32:00 -
[27]
I'd rather have the Minmatar bonus than the Amarr one.
Yes, really. If I ever get a carrier (miles away atm) I have no intention of ever letting anyone shoot it. Why would you? It doesn't need to be in combat to use its firepower, why risk it? A remote rep/boost bonus, on the other hand, a) works great at a safe for rapid turn-around on damaged BS, and is absolutely invaluable if you're trying to get a POS back on its feet again. By contrast, if you ever reach the point where higher resists become useful (ie you're being shot at, scrambled and without a jump target), chances are you're dead anyway, and the extra seconds from resists won't make a difference. The only exception to this would be if you were actually trying to sustainably tank your carrier, and again in this case I ask why? The only possible reason I can see is to act as a decoy or weapons magnet. In that case yes, if you're willing to take the risk then the extra resists are useful. For general useage though, I'd be very tempted to go with the Matari design.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nyphur
What the hell are you doing fitting 5 capital repairers on a carrier and trying to run them all at once?
umm.... you know that carriers can not fit any weapons besides smart bombs right???
You also know that the reduced cycle time bonus and the 50% more range per lvl bonus only applies to the capital sized mods right??? (unless of course this was changed recently like after the BPO for the capital sized ones finally got seeded).
yeah i want to use a large remote armor rep with its whole 7500 meter range because that is oh so useful at being able to fix ships quickly when they warp to the carrier (if the carrier is not in the main fight which it should not be.)
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:40:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 12:41:03
Originally by: Aloysius Knight what i love to roll my eyes weeee look at them gooooooo
anyway since you seem to be good at maths (hey i suck at % eat me) what would be the finaly reisitances on a amarr carrier with reisatne gang mod and so? and u can't really say that youd rather have this bonus then something else right?
The amarr/caldari carriers get the same resistance, 25% at level 5 plus 15% from a gang mod, which is a total of 36.25%. In practical terms, that follows the formula I posted earlier when determining by how much it raises their tanking ability, which ends up as a 56.86% increase. Your repair rate raises tanking done with the remote repairers by over 65% because you have an additional 5% implant. There is no 5% resistance implant. TBH, I'm not even sure if that 5% implant even works on remote repairers but I know the rest does.
A resistance bonus is nice but only if you're in the thick of things. That bonus is doing you no good sat at a safespot while the minmatar one looks like it will help speed things up a little, if only a little. The gallente one is by far the best, of course. The damage bonus on fighters you can have deployed when you are safespotted is great.
Here's a crazy idea. Take advantage of that big cargo bay and corp hanger. Fit the mids with Heavy electrochemical capacitor boosters, capital armour tank in the lows and remote reps in the highs. You get enough cap out of that to last a good 15 minutes of high usage before you have to kill the remote reps down to maybe 1 running and let it recharge. You could get stuck right into combat with that, running the remote reps at full blast while you do. If that doesn't push the odds in your favour, something's wrong.
EDIT: I assumed that the carrier bonuses applied to large remote reps too. Can anyone confirm that this is not the case?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:48:00 -
[30]
so many th8ings put in this thread are only halfthoughtout, and would never work and end in a screwup
i read that u put weapons on those - u cant.
putting L, not capital, remoteson carriers doesnt help u either, no bonusses and a way too short on them, think its maximum 10km, where as it gotta b 50km or more to b somehow effective ina fleetfight, or more then 15 when u rep at a ss.
for repping at an ss u have the problem that it takes so long to lock the bses, and the captial rep will usually only have to cycle one time on a bs, so a faster remote rep is pretty much useless, as u have with 3 capital reps prolly plenty of time to wait for the cycles to end, well enough time that the 2 secs wont matter, or 3 or 4 even..
now for repping other capital ships or poses it could b useful - if they wouldnt kill ur capacitor so fast. a caprial ship without cap is dead meat, especially a carrier, so forget repping in a big battle like that - resists are way better there.
now another bonus imo could be somethin like:
cap reduction, fighter sig reduction, jumprange or whatever.
btw, dont worry bout bnc not pimpin out their captials ;)
- Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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