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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:30:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:09:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:54:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/04/2006 15:05:51
Originally by: Nifel It's fun to be smacked by my own alliance members :|. NOT...
If you guys had bothered to read up a bit you'd see I proposed a joint bonus for the minmatar carrier where it got a bonus of cap reduction needs required to run the remote reps/transfers that matched the reduction cycle bonus. I'd also like to see it boosted to 10% reduction per level for a nice 50% reduction in cycle time and cap needed to run the remote reps/transfers.
Next time... don't flame and spam so much but present a clear and consistent argument instead. Jeez...
You dont get it, do you. In how many Fleet ops that you participated, prolly even with me in some, did we ever ever ever used anykind of remote repairing IN COMBAT? (granted, we do remote repairing after batttle with s reppys) And realy, with the envoirment; Lag lag lag lag lag, you shuld know beter to even begin to sugjest something like that.
Now, if you had sugjested something like this: carrier can remotly repair a guye from SS anywhere in system, just like you assing drones, thats other thing
So lets keep this simpple
No UI and lock interface support: - No proper Health managment display for 50+ gangmenbers - No instalock for gangmembers
Module is not balanced for what its intendet: - Piddly 15km range will not do, you need atleast 100+km range to be any use in fleet. - Remote repair module's needs to repair instantly and have cooldown period, not at the end of cycle.
Servers arent optimized for this: - A severe healt displaying lag is still present if ship is taking fire from more than 10 ships, render useless anykind of remote repping. You need have realtime display of healt if you plan being monk in EVE
solution to serverside lag is that ships dont explode instantly after Healt = 0, instead you have ~10 seconds time to "save it" by remote repairing, while its in"abaut to explode" mode. This also means that armor repairers also shuld repair strukture.
This ofcorse, can potetntioaly tunr EVE fleetbattles into WoW like "rez! Rez! heal! omfg HEALz0r plizz" game. But thats what devs want since they are so horny for remote repping
You get 55km range with carrier 5 iirc. Given that carriers have enough hp not to get instaganked by a semilarge fleet they can remote rep each other to their hearts content. That's what I belive CCP envisioned for them given the fact that only the carriers can control all of the drones, they have quite a bit of hp and a locking time that's only really fit for other capital ships.
But yes... the minmatar carrier bonus sucks donkey ****. Another reason I'm not bothering with capital ships on minnie. Which is a shame because they actually have the coolest looking capital ships :(.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:45:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
There is no one correct path. Welcome to the world of EVE Online. Enjoy your stay now that you have the secret to the universe.
And If I told you I'd have to kill you.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:48:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:53:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it because I trained up dread skills first for a naglfar. Will never use it like you all seem to say it needs to be used. Am training my 2nd account for an Archon and will never use it like you all claim they need to be used.
I don't think your oppinions are that far off in many cases, never said otherwise. I just don't think throwing out absolutes about EVE combat as well as hyperbolic future case scenarios isn't very productive when relaying ideas to the DEVs. Who is to say how the future holds, since obviosly not everyone will fly a Thanatos in a years time. Combat could easily change radically overnight and it is well on its way to another shift as it is.
Sure, if you can get another damage bonus or logistics bonus, or even a Shield Bonus akin to the Cyclone on it then more power to you. But kicking the devs in the box while they are fixing the game, gearing up Kali the true RMR patch, fixing my typhoon, and getting the Chineese servers up to generate more real life ISK just because a ship has a broken or lackluster bonus, however you feel about it... its just stupid.
Getting flamed and called a troll for tossing about a counter argument is pretty funny none the less.
so how about telling us how you would use it?
enlighten us who know not the correct path
There is no one correct path. Welcome to the world of EVE Online. Enjoy your stay now that you have the secret to the universe.
And If I told you I'd have to kill you.
pffft
face the truth, the bonus sucks and needs to be changed
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:53:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
are you dim?
every frekking carrier can do it.
Why chooe the worst to do this?
What are you trying to say here? that that odd 2,5 sec with max skills gona do any good anywhere
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 07:59:00 -
[248]
my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 08:58:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi I have a Nidhoggur. 25 days until I can fly it
this is when i stopped reading.
Now please come back in 2 months, and you will have something solid to back your "visions" of new and wonderful EVE with Monks and palladins.
25 days is less than 1 month and I am smart enough and been playing EVE enough to know how to use my ships before I step into them. It is a mobile POS despite the bugs and not much more. If you want to use it as a battleship that is your perogative but don't expect everyone to to swallow that pill.
Kay i still remember you from the typhoon threads doing the devil advocate saying that the phoon is uber and ****.
I dont mean to flame here but if you donŠt tell us concrete facts for why the minie carriers are better than the galente,caldari or amar,in anny situation i don't relly see the point in doing this crusade to say that the minie carriers kick ass.
Fact is no one is training the minie carrier unless they are masochist like you and me
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 09:15:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 09:27:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
its sad but true
at lest after all that training it'll be something to fear
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 10:39:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Aloysius Knight my god, i can't beleave no one cares about
is this the replacement of the typhoon?
The new "fixed" phoon will be nothing more than a toy for Veterans.
It will have dual bonuses, forsing to train 2 if not 3 (drones) weponsystems to be par with geddon and domi. who cna baisikly cope with 1 (domi may be 2 if you insist on hybrids istead vanilla nos)
As i see it, typ0hoon will be either toy for a 3+ year old pilots or another noss mobile with 4 heavy nosses and 4 missile launchers.
its sad but true
at lest after all that training it'll be something to fear
No i'am getting about all my ships.
/me hops in the claw and goes to syndicate..
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 11:28:00 -
[253]
anything fromt he devs would be good
like "we know"
or we're looking into it
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.17 13:49:00 -
[254]
I'm not saying this bonus is good but thinking about it in this way might be more useful:
2x carriers take on a small fleet of bs. One carrier is called primary. The other 'useless' one immediately begins to remote repair him.
I know all carriers could do this but the minmatar one would do it better. On the other hand, this bonus still sucks donkey balls and should be changed.
Moving onto the phoon, i've managed to fit dual reps, injector, afterburner, 4 x 425mms and 4 cruise launchers on. Just gonna wait for the patch to calculate dps but i reckcon it will still be rubbish. Plus the phoon needs roughly 1.5k more pg to fit all that as t2.
CCP please either stop gimping minmatar or give us something to work with.
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 14:05:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Aloysius Knight anything fromt he devs would be good
like "we know"
or we're looking into it
or even "carriers are fine"
so we wont hold our breaths and train galentte like rest of EVE
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Simlife
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Posted - 2006.04.17 14:21:00 -
[256]
I'm sure by now the devs are well aware of the situation concerning the carriers. I knew when I bought a carrier that it had bugs but I also know that at some point they will be fixed at least to a working status, anything else is a bonus to me. I don't care if they give no responce because the problems are rather noticable enough already. After all it is quite cool watching people undock from a station to take a peek.
When it is fixed up after a patch I'm sure our alliance will make good use of it, untill then... ahh wait we already are. :)
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:09:00 -
[257]
An official "they are meant to be like this " is good to me i only save time.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.04.17 21:51:00 -
[258]
still no officle, word My this is poor ----------------------------------------------
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.04.17 22:00:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight still no officle, word My this is poor
devs are taking "put our heads in the sand" method on this. if we dont recodnise it, there is no problem.
[23] Member: BoB Alt whoe
Lelos or Cocordokken! |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.17 22:05:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight still no officle, word My this is poor
devs are taking "put our heads in the sand" method on this. if we dont recodnise it, there is no problem.
There is no spoon ,comon tux give us a missile bonus here dammit
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Jurushy
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:28:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Jurushy on 17/04/2006 23:35:23 Edited by: Jurushy on 17/04/2006 23:29:49 well i am a mine carrier pilot an the specel bonus sux really :/
my opinion is why dont give any carrier ther racial figter as bonus for 5% or 10% (remember fighter are not really drones becouse Drones are unmanned and fighter have pilotes (look at the firebolg*****pit) which has famalies and childrends and so on )
normally carrier are use at a safe point not direckt in battle (first target carrier from 20-30 BS will brack every tank) they delegate the fighter to gangmates and repair ships which could warp out of the fight
but my favorit bonus for the mine carrier would be
CAN USE STARGATS LIKE NON CAPITAL SHIPS
or
can fit one XL turret per level
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slip66
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Posted - 2006.04.18 03:13:00 -
[262]
what do you expect from a bunch of brainless slaves? A high tech ship? I think the primatives did ok considering how dumb they are.
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2006.04.18 07:18:00 -
[263]
Thanatos seems to be an all-around better Carrier than any of the others too. 50% to fighter damage output at lvl 5?! I'd gladly take that over 25% to resistances. I can fit 1 Invunerability field II for more effect than that.
Then take into account that compared to the Chimera, the Thanatos has 55% more powergrid, is 15% faster, has more 5000 more hit points, has 25% more drone bay, 11% faster lock times, less mass, more cargo bay, smaller signature radius and more capacitor.
I mean, cmon, the Pheonix is a pretty gimped dread (especially compared to the Moros), so I was kinda hoping for a better Carrier too.
And yes, despite my complaining about the Chimera in comparison to the Thanatos, the Minmatar did indeed get an even shorter end of the stick.
My suggestion: tone down the Thanatos slightly (or at least give the Archon and Chimera stats that keep them from just being all-around worse than it) and definately buff the Nidhoggur's bonus, that's kinda lousy. Its stats are at least somewhat decent, but that bonus is a huge blow to what would otherwise be a decent carrier.
-Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:18:00 -
[264]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Thanatos seems to be an all-around better Carrier than any of the others too. 50% to fighter damage output at lvl 5?! I'd gladly take that over 25% to resistances. I can fit 1 Invunerability field II for more effect than that.
Then take into account that compared to the Chimera, the Thanatos has 55% more powergrid, is 15% faster, has more 5000 more hit points, has 25% more drone bay, 11% faster lock times, less mass, more cargo bay, smaller signature radius and more capacitor.
I mean, cmon, the Pheonix is a pretty gimped dread (especially compared to the Moros), so I was kinda hoping for a better Carrier too.
And yes, despite my complaining about the Chimera in comparison to the Thanatos, the Minmatar did indeed get an even shorter end of the stick.
My suggestion: tone down the Thanatos slightly (or at least give the Archon and Chimera stats that keep them from just being all-around worse than it) and definately buff the Nidhoggur's bonus, that's kinda lousy. Its stats are at least somewhat decent, but that bonus is a huge blow to what would otherwise be a decent carrier.
all carriers have the same cap recharge rate (base) and tbh sig rad and speed means **** all really, your so big the even minmatar guns can hit you , even with 40 more sig
but your still way betta off then minmatar
common tux if a post about cover ops gets a reply from you wtf do we have to do to get one here?
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:20:00 -
[265]
Originally by: smallgreenblur I'm not saying this bonus is good but thinking about it in this way might be more useful:
2x carriers take on a small fleet of bs. One carrier is called primary. The other 'useless' one immediately begins to remote repair him.
I know all carriers could do this but the minmatar one would do it better. On the other hand, this bonus still sucks donkey balls and should be changed.
Moving onto the phoon, i've managed to fit dual reps, injector, afterburner, 4 x 425mms and 4 cruise launchers on. Just gonna wait for the patch to calculate dps but i reckcon it will still be rubbish. Plus the phoon needs roughly 1.5k more pg to fit all that as t2.
CCP please either stop gimping minmatar or give us something to work with.
sgb
true maybe in a small fleet it could work, but think what if you have 2 amarr or calldarie carrier? -25% to damg means a ****load more then reping 2 seconds faster
and yes the phoon needs more grid
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2006.04.18 08:59:00 -
[266]
Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:05:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
you can't be serious
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Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:32:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
I bet it got something to do with that gallente dreadnought pilots is those with the least amount of skill training to do before jumping into a carrier. They have all the skills required to fly capital ships and use tech 2 drones. They just needed some leadership skills and was good to go. I still think most carrier pilots will choose gallente though.
To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary and caldari/amarr is made to be tankable (and the thanatos to assign drones from afar ).
If the nidhoggur is not primary 33% more repaired is good. I am not the most experienced player here , but to me it looks like it might work in small scale fights. Engage the enemy at your own terms (isnt that the minmatar way?) and keep everyone in your gang alive.
The caldari and amarr is more for when you can't dictate when and how the fight is done and you need to struggle to keep these centerpieces alive.
Right now I tend to think that most carrier pilots use their ship from safespot , making thanatos the natural choice.
you'll never jump alone |
Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.04.18 09:46:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Also, all sofar manufacored motherships are Nyxes... i wonder why
I bet it got something to do with that gallente dreadnought pilots is those with the least amount of skill training to do before jumping into a carrier. They have all the skills required to fly capital ships and use tech 2 drones. They just needed some leadership skills and was good to go. I still think most carrier pilots will choose gallente though.
To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary and caldari/amarr is made to be tankable (and the thanatos to assign drones from afar ).
If the nidhoggur is not primary 33% more repaired is good. I am not the most experienced player here , but to me it looks like it might work in small scale fights. Engage the enemy at your own terms (isnt that the minmatar way?) and keep everyone in your gang alive.
The caldari and amarr is more for when you can't dictate when and how the fight is done and you need to struggle to keep these centerpieces alive.
Right now I tend to think that most carrier pilots use their ship from safespot , making thanatos the natural choice.
small scale fights and carriers do not mix
moving something around with a jump drive needs huge amout of logisitcs to work
33% faster is a load of bull****, its 2 secounds, your take more damg then the amarr and caldarie carriers and the gehylentie does more damg then you
ffs im just asking for a reson to use the minnie carrier other then the others, atm its pure ****
and "To me it look like the minmatar carrier is made to not be primary " wtf are you talking about!?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.18 10:03:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian Minnie has the best bonus for how carriers are supposed to be used.
No i don't mean from a safespot.
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