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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
249
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 01:31:00 -
[271] - Quote
Conclusion of this shitopic:
Why do you even try to play?
Log, set your skills que, log off -> do interesting stuff.
You don't need ice, you don't need reactions, you don't need corp or alliance, you don't need ships, mods whatsoever.
Cool stuff guys |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
144
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 03:31:00 -
[272] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Weaselior wrote:I, unlike you, have been monitoring stockpile levels you, like most of EVE, have never seen a supply side market manipulation and you're unable to grasp how it works; this isn't something where the price just crashes: supply is far below demand, and what we see is depletion of stockpiles at various demand levels your poor analysis can be spotted from your idea that 'heavy market buyouts' are part of the interdiction; they're not. they're just a way to profit off it, as the stockpiles go back on the market and still need to be burned off; this sort of basic error is part and parcel of your importing demand-side market manipulation principles and not understanding the difference IF what you say is true and MOST of the stockpiles purchased before the jumps in price have been re-entering the market at somewhat inflated prices while the ACTUAL total game-wide stockpiles are REALLY dwindling and Goonswarm is aware of this, this would either mean that the Goons only control a small percentage of the existing stockpiles (since otherwise, the price would have skyrocketed) or that the Goons do control a majority of stockpiles but have some of them selling it NOW who are idiots. Assuming it's the former instead of the latter, and the Goons only control a small portion of the stockpile, why haven't you guys mass-pooled more of your cash to buy out most of the remaining isotopes and relist at a much higher price, especially if you're aware that soon enough switching towers over to a different isotope will become radically less painful as expressed in invested time per switch ? You're getting mightily upset over a simple question over your campaign's efficiency, aren't you ? Quote:we will run jita out of oxygen isotopes entirely; the important number isn't the price. the important number is the amount of isotopes on the market oxytopes will never be 2.3k, and you can see that if you actually look at supply: supply is clustered around 2k and once it punches through this, the last remaining major stockpile (pulled from all over eve as people spot an arbitrage opportunity) and will soar above it because ice is tremendously ineleastic Don't you perhaps mean "oxytopes will never REMAIN at ONLY 2.3k" ? Because what you just said above, in plain English (assuming it's a language you know well enough) roughly translates out of context into "oxytopes will never reach 2.3k or more". I only mentioned the 2.3k figure as being the point where I would agree that the Goons DID indeed manage to do something meaningful with the market. Not that you'll certainly get there soon, nor that you won't get there at all. Just that that's the amount at which, if oxytopes remain stable above it for a good while, it would be clear enough your "interdiction" policy has born fruit. Or, in other, simpler words, "until oxytopes go over and stay over 2.3k, this might as well just be a transitory thing". Keyword "might". And again, if you are so confident that oxytopes WILL go and stay above that figure, why the bloody begejus aren't you all just buying out every last oxytope under 2.3k or whatever your target is and relisting it at whatever your target price is ? The only conclusions to be drawn from this could be that either you're talking out some other less used for speaking bodily orifice OR you're not really all that confident oxytopes will indeed remain as high as you claim they will.
Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down? I live, I post, I slay. I am content. |
Jessica Cartier
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.11.24 05:33:00 -
[273] - Quote
Akita T wrote: Yes, the pre-insurance costs of suicide-ganking will be going down. However, insurance for suicide gankers also goes away completely, which drives the total cost of suicide-ganking up. That's still on the table, isn't it ?
I believe I saw confirmation of this somewhere from CCP Soundwave. I guess he's not one of the fans of suicide ganking... lol.
But, a fleet of destroyers is dirt cheap, even without insurance, and, with the dual-buff to the Catalyst (destroyer buff and blaster buff), I don't think it will take all that many of them to take down a standard-fit Mack or Hulk. The typical T2 module drops from an exhumer will more than pay for the lost destroyers.
As for the foolishly over-tanked exhumer, those nice faction module drops makes it still profitable to take them down with a more pricey ship, such as a Brutix or the new Talos, or even a BS.
Also, remember that many PVP corps already have their own ship reimbursement programs, and that pilots and corps which can afford to lose T2, T3 and capital ships aren't going to blink much at the cost of losing T1 BCs. Especially when the miners are taking a much larger hit, each time a Mack or Hulk goes up in smoke.
Akita T wrote: Destroyers might become slightly more ISK-efficient suicide-gankers, but as far as battlecruisers or above goes, looks like the ISK bottom line price per suicide-ganking performance is actually going up, not down.
I think this sounds right, too. But, suicide ganking of miners has never really been about profit, at least, not as calculated on per ship loss basis. And, in this particular case, I'm sure that Weaselior will argue that the profits on the ice interdiction will greatly outweigh the costs of the ship losses.
Akita T wrote: P.S. I personally think suicide-ganking has been made too costly in the past few years (with the repeated CONCORD buffs and the secrating changes and so on) and what we actually need is to make suicide-ganking much cheaper again, not more expensive, but that's a different story.
Cheaper is actually not good. Too much suicide ganking discourages carebear players, and they make up a large percentage of the Eve playerbase. You don't actually want them to quit - you just want them to whine and cry in local, while continuing to pay their subscription fees and flying more ships for you to blow up. :) |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2011.11.24 08:58:00 -
[274] - Quote
deleted |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
394
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 14:44:00 -
[275] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down? Because at around 2.3k for oxytopes, assuming a moderate-towards-high skills Covetor with just T1 gear (for uber-cheapness) used for both ice and ore mining, mining Blue Ice becomes roughly as profitable as mining some of the lousier highsec ores (before that, mining any ore, selling it, then and blue ice is better for your bottom line), so the only people who REALLY have an interest in ice mining (in particular Blue Ice mining) being people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining. When oxytopes go somewhat over 2.3k and Blue Ice roughly over 700k per block, it becomes more profitable in ISK/hour to mine Blue Ice as opposed to mining junk ore in that cheapo barge, so THAT is when people will REALLY START TO CONSIDER that they might be attracted to mining Blue Ice as opposed to, say, continuing to mine Veldspar or Pyroxeres or whatever, in other words, when your interdiction measures will finally start to encounter some SIGNIFICANT increases in potential targets.
If you can break over and roughly maintain (or even keep increasing) that oxytopes price level in spite of the (amount unknowable) additional quantities of product that will unavoidably and eventually slip past your Gallente-space-wide interdiction, THEN I will be convinced that it's the interdiction that's mainly the driver behind the price spike, as opposed to other non-interdiction related factors. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 17:49:00 -
[276] - Quote
Jessica Cartier wrote:Akita T wrote: P.S. I personally think suicide-ganking has been made too costly in the past few years (with the repeated CONCORD buffs and the secrating changes and so on) and what we actually need is to make suicide-ganking much cheaper again, not more expensive, but that's a different story.
Cheaper is actually not good. Too much suicide ganking discourages carebear players, and they make up a large percentage of the Eve playerbase. You don't actually want them to quit - you just want them to whine and cry in local, while continuing to pay their subscription fees and flying more ships for you to blow up. :) Empire carebears are the 99%, the difference is that CCP listens to them, at least somewhat. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
394
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 20:29:00 -
[277] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Jessica Cartier wrote:Akita T wrote:I personally think suicide-ganking has been made too costly in the past few years (with the repeated CONCORD buffs and the secrating changes and so on) and what we actually need is to make suicide-ganking much cheaper again, not more expensive, but that's a different story. Cheaper is actually not good. Too much suicide ganking discourages carebear players, and they make up a large percentage of the Eve playerbase. You don't actually want them to quit - you just want them to whine and cry in local, while continuing to pay their subscription fees and flying more ships for you to blow up. :) Empire carebears are the 99%, the difference is that CCP listens to them, at least somewhat. Eh, they'll still fly around relatively safely, the only difference is how much stuff they'll feel (and be) relatively safe flying with. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Peter Tjordenskiold
The Executives Executive Outcomes
9
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:00:00 -
[278] - Quote
corestwo wrote:[quote=Jessica Cartier] Empire carebears are the 99%, the difference is that CCP listens to them, at least somewhat.
Don't forget even CCP is a capitalistic company depending on some paying customers and carebears are a huge part of the them. In opposite to Goons organized on superior communistic principles CCP has to live with customers demanding contrary designed game mechanics. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
397
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 21:27:00 -
[279] - Quote
Patch Notes wrote:Player ship wrecks will now drop an increased amount of salvage components. [...] Increased the drop of T2 salvage components from ship wrecks. [...] Tech 2 mining barge wrecks now properly drop T2 generic components rather than T1 generic components. That changes something a little bit
P.S. It also noticeably changes the motivation, scope and extent of upcoming Hulkageddons (or at least the first one until T2 salvage prices catch up). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Roywyn Kolkor
Greenthumb Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 03:17:00 -
[280] - Quote
oxygen prices dropping rather fast, whats up ? they slackin ? |
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
509
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 13:04:00 -
[281] - Quote
Roywyn Kolkor wrote:oxygen prices dropping rather fast, whats up ? they slackin ? Lame attempt. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
57
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 23:07:00 -
[282] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Weaselior wrote: the very idea of someone spending all day tearing down a reactor farm and replacing it makes me all tingly inside
i mean i've made people angry enough to quit the game but i've never inflicted that level of griefing
I've seen monkeys derive euphoric pleasure from flinging their own poo at other monkeys. Doesn't change the fact that they're just stupid monkeys.
I want to apologize for the above statement. Apparently, I erred in my comparison and for that I am truly sorry.
Goons are certainly nothing like poo-flinging monkeys.
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Aaron Knossos
Triumphant Turtles Legion of Honor
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 00:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
Heard about Goonswarm Shrugged.
Changed tower race.
Don't fly caps.
Bought topes. Sold topes later in day for profit.
Everythingwentbetterthanexpected.jpg |
Kyle Myr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
17
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Posted - 2011.12.01 01:00:00 -
[284] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down? Because at around 2.3k for oxytopes, assuming a moderate-towards-high skills Covetor with just T1 gear (for uber-cheapness) used for both ice and ore mining, mining Blue Ice becomes roughly as profitable as mining some of the lousier highsec ores (before that, mining any ore, selling it, then and blue ice is better for your bottom line), so the only people who REALLY have an interest in ice mining (in particular Blue Ice mining) being people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining. When oxytopes go somewhat over 2.3k and Blue Ice roughly over 700k per block, it becomes more profitable in ISK/hour to mine Blue Ice as opposed to mining junk ore in that cheapo barge, so THAT is when people will REALLY START TO CONSIDER that they might be attracted to mining Blue Ice as opposed to, say, continuing to mine Veldspar or Pyroxeres or whatever, in other words, when Goon interdiction measures will finally start to encounter some SIGNIFICANT increases in potential targets. If Goons can break over and roughly maintain (or even keep increasing) that oxytopes price level in spite of the (amount unknowable) additional quantities of product that will unavoidably and eventually slip past Goon Gallente-space-wide interdiction, THEN I will be convinced that it's the interdiction that's mainly the driver behind the price spike, as opposed to other non-interdiction related factors.
All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
159
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 01:52:00 -
[285] - Quote
Kyle Myr wrote:Akita T wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down? Because at around 2.3k for oxytopes, assuming a moderate-towards-high skills Covetor with just T1 gear (for uber-cheapness) used for both ice and ore mining, mining Blue Ice becomes roughly as profitable as mining some of the lousier highsec ores (before that, mining any ore, selling it, then and blue ice is better for your bottom line), so the only people who REALLY have an interest in ice mining (in particular Blue Ice mining) being people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining. When oxytopes go somewhat over 2.3k and Blue Ice roughly over 700k per block, it becomes more profitable in ISK/hour to mine Blue Ice as opposed to mining junk ore in that cheapo barge, so THAT is when people will REALLY START TO CONSIDER that they might be attracted to mining Blue Ice as opposed to, say, continuing to mine Veldspar or Pyroxeres or whatever, in other words, when Goon interdiction measures will finally start to encounter some SIGNIFICANT increases in potential targets. If Goons can break over and roughly maintain (or even keep increasing) that oxytopes price level in spite of the (amount unknowable) additional quantities of product that will unavoidably and eventually slip past Goon Gallente-space-wide interdiction, THEN I will be convinced that it's the interdiction that's mainly the driver behind the price spike, as opposed to other non-interdiction related factors. All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost.
Stop trolling, your failure campaign clearly has had no visible effect at ALL, because incursion runners can make more money than blue ice miners.
The campaign's goal is to make ice mining profitable, right? I live, I post, I slay. I am content. Alpha Flight --á an open-source initiative for newbies looking for PVP. Join channel ''Alpha Flight'' in game https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40104 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
466
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 07:20:00 -
[286] - Quote
Kyle Myr wrote:Akita T wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Why 2.3k anyways? Isn't the current price, a 300% increase, a valid sign that something actually went down? Because at around 2.3k for oxytopes, assuming a moderate-towards-high skills Covetor with just T1 gear (for uber-cheapness) used for both ice and ore mining, mining Blue Ice becomes roughly as profitable as mining some of the lousier highsec ores (before that, mining any ore, selling it, then and blue ice is better for your bottom line), so the only people who REALLY have an interest in ice mining (in particular Blue Ice mining) being people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining. When oxytopes go somewhat over 2.3k and Blue Ice roughly over 700k per block, it becomes more profitable in ISK/hour to mine Blue Ice as opposed to mining junk ore in that cheapo barge, so THAT is when people will REALLY START TO CONSIDER that they might be attracted to mining Blue Ice as opposed to, say, continuing to mine Veldspar or Pyroxeres or whatever, in other words, when Goon interdiction measures will finally start to encounter some SIGNIFICANT increases in potential targets. If Goons can break over and roughly maintain (or even keep increasing) that oxytopes price level in spite of the (amount unknowable) additional quantities of product that will unavoidably and eventually slip past Goon Gallente-space-wide interdiction, THEN I will be convinced that it's the interdiction that's mainly the driver behind the price spike, as opposed to other non-interdiction related factors. All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost.
What does it matter that the fuel cost of running a Gallente POS has slightly more than doubled (now that people can switch to other types fairly easily) or that the cost of operating a Gallente capital has tripled (on a fairly low initial cost anyway) if, on one hand, the stated Goon goal was to make it go sky-high (noticeably higher than it already is), and on the other hand, to prove they can successfully interdict people that WANT to mine Gallente ice ? All that matters is whether people would BOTHER to break your "interdiction" or not. So far, there has been little to no incentive to do it because ice mining sucks ISK-wise compared to the already-sorta-sucking ore mining (both for highsec). As soon as it STOPS totally sucking ISK-wise, that's when you're really going to see the TRUE test of the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Goon interdiction campaign.
Are you honestly saying that at the current already-dropping-again level of oxytopes operating a Gallente capital ship is REALLY all that costly to REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things ? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
562
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:13:00 -
[287] - Quote
Well, finally some decent movement, but I'm still not quite convinced yet. Push harder, boys ! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
308
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:33:00 -
[288] - Quote
Akita T wrote: Push harder, boys !
You shouldn't be saying that.
You're not even married with all those boys Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. |
Loki Ember
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 14:46:00 -
[289] - Quote
Kyle Myr wrote:
All the words in this post and you're missing the forest for the trees. Why does the isk/hr of empire miners, which is already fairly terrible, matter? The cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel has tripled in price with respect to that cost.
I think you're missing the point of that individual's post. Per that individual, the cost of running any ship or POS that uses Oxygen Isotopes for fuel may have tripled, but it's been kept artificially low (in fact, at a fraction of a reasonable price) by "people who are either mathematically challenged, hopelessly masochistic, or mostly interested in the AFK nature of (Blue) ice mining."
What they're really getting at is: "ok, congrats on taking the lazy and the dumb people out of the equation, now let's see how well you deal with profit-minded people who have brains in their heads once breaking the blockade starts making financial sense". I haven't run the numbers myself to see where that threshold lies, but I will say that from the perspective of economics, rational individuals with a solid profit motive will be vastly more difficult to deal with than those otherwise motivated (be they bots or the low man on the corporate totem pole who's assigned to fetch fuel, etc.) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
567
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 22:18:00 -
[290] - Quote
Loki Ember wrote:I haven't run the numbers myself to see where that threshold lies 2300 per oxytope is roughly about "meh, maybe worth trying" level.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
457
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 07:37:00 -
[291] - Quote
Assuming 72 blocks/hr for a Mack (w/ Orca booster).
25 LOz @ 450 = 810k ISK/hr 50 HW @ 170 = 612k ISK/hr 300 Isotopes @ 1500 = 32.4M ISK/hr
So at 2500 ISK/u, your theoretical mackinaw could be pulling about 55.4M ISK/hr raw, figure 20% of that gets burned up by hauling characters. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
570
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 15:11:00 -
[292] - Quote
Hardly worth risking Macks and Orcas and such to a Goon blockade even at those numbers. Was thinking more along the lines of inconspicuous off-grid battlecruiser booster and T1-fit unrigged Covetor mining the ice. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 17:03:00 -
[293] - Quote
Funny for me the problem has ALWAYS been liquid ozone as the bottleneck for my pos ops.
This isotope interdiction has not really affected the high sec pos I run much.
Mostly because 6 of us share the burden doing t2 production in a Gallente Large POS. So the cost per person has went from 30mil per month to about 50mil per month. Yeah it has doubled but when profits are in the 600-700mil range per member, it is a non issue.
So, yeah, you guys did spike the prices, yaay! Go Goon Swarm! It really is a non issue for the high sec care bear POS owner. If you keep it up we will switch to a caldari or some such, but that should be pain free.....and we needed to switch for a while. So thanks for adding impetus to what we already needed to do.
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Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
305
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 18:35:00 -
[294] - Quote
1/10 |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 20:26:00 -
[295] - Quote
Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 20:26:00 -
[296] - Quote
double post great forum |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
573
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 20:42:00 -
[297] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Ice interdiction officially over. Source ?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
5
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:48:00 -
[298] - Quote
mittani state of the gunion.
one of the 1k people that were there can confirm
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CEO Rockhound
The Treehugger Corp
0
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Posted - 2011.12.18 23:47:00 -
[299] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Ice interdiction officially over. SELLSELLSELL
LOL, that is not true It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.
They are just going to talk the price into the basement, buy up any stocks left out there once it hits about 800 PU, and get right back into shooting mackinaws.
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Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 23:51:00 -
[300] - Quote
CEO Rockhound wrote:LOL, that is not true It is just a scam. If you notice there have not been any dumping of enormous amounts of oxytopes the last days.
They are just going to talk the price into the basement, buy up any stocks left out there once it hits about 800 PU, and get right back into shooting mackinaws.
1500 Goons and co reinforcing all of Branch as we speak would like to disagree with you. |
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