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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
139
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Posted - 2011.11.12 19:43:00 -
[61] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:First? Every time you see a merc corp contracted to harsh an indy corp it is likely because they stepped on someone's margins. This might count as the loudest most obvious example.....
Wtf? When did this subforum turn from slick money-makers to mouth-breathing carebears? Shouldn't you faggots be in the S&I section comparing hulk fits?
Is this what an MD without the "Elite" has become? I have a growing sense of dread that my crusade may have drastic unforeseen consequences that I am not prepared to face.
Oh god...what have I done?
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JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2011.11.12 20:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:JitaJane wrote:First? Every time you see a merc corp contracted to harsh an indy corp it is likely because they stepped on someone's margins. This might count as the loudest most obvious example..... Wtf? When did this subforum turn from slick money-makers to mouth-breathing carebears? Shouldn't you faggots be in the S&I section comparing hulk fits? Is this what an MD without the "Elite" has become? I have a growing sense of dread that my crusade may have drastic unforeseen consequences that I am not prepared to face. Oh god...what have I done? Eh I don't know never flew a hulk. Been quietly playing markets for a while and watching how interactions work. Actually to me it is the best PvP available because everyone is compelled to participate. Why do you think I am a ******? Are you lonely? I'm actually seeing someone is all...... |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1559
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Posted - 2011.11.12 20:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
what has been done is to take one of the most commonly used items in eve and triple the value (so far), eliminating the viability of an entire race of pos and robbing anyone who uses an entire race of capital ships for untold billions
and has the potential to basically empty jita of oxytopes unless the current market thinning thread reverses dramatically
this is a market manipulation of such unprecedented size and scope a new word will have to be created for it: a market manipulation is when you take a minor market and move it 10% for a short time
this is to market manipulation as fat man is to a grenade |
Callduron
7
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Posted - 2011.11.12 21:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Market mittanpulation perhaps?
Still it only counts if you stick with it. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1559
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Posted - 2011.11.12 21:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
i think the 'goons won't follow through' train sailed somewhere before week 5 of constant interdiction |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2011.11.12 21:51:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is to watch people sell oxytopes at 100 below the first old sell order. Apparently lots of pubbies don't understand the fact that it will sell, and selling 2m units at a 100 isk surcharge is basically just scamming themselves out of 200m isk.
Oh well, thanks guys. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2011.11.12 21:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is to watch people sell oxytopes at 100 below the first old sell order. Apparently lots of pubbies don't understand the fact that it will sell, and selling 2m units at a 100 isk surcharge is basically just scamming themselves out of 200m isk.
Oh well, thanks guys. This happens in many markets. Build a spreadsheet. Earn iskies.... |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1561
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Posted - 2011.11.12 22:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is to watch people sell oxytopes at 100 below the first old sell order. Apparently lots of pubbies don't understand the fact that it will sell, and selling 2m units at a 100 isk surcharge is basically just scamming themselves out of 200m isk.
Oh well, thanks guys. This happens in many markets. Build a spreadsheet. Earn iskies....
ahahahahah look at this moron it thinks its people |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2011.11.12 22:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
never mind starve a troll.... |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1561
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Posted - 2011.11.12 22:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
but seriously that was the most ******** thing posted in this thread so far go sit in the corner with your dunce cap |
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tengen san
Triton-TC
2
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Posted - 2011.11.12 23:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:what has been done is to take one of the most commonly used items in eve and triple the value (so far), eliminating the viability of an entire race of pos and robbing anyone who uses an entire race of capital ships for untold billions
and has the potential to basically empty jita of oxytopes unless the current market thinning thread reverses dramatically
this is a market manipulation of such unprecedented size and scope a new word will have to be created for it: a market manipulation is when you take a minor market and move it 10% for a short time
this is to market manipulation as fat man is to a grenade
The size of your flaunting in self adulation takes on comic porpotions, outclassing the operation itself.
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tengen san
Triton-TC
2
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Posted - 2011.11.12 23:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:I'm not sure what I enjoy more, making thousands of industrialists suffer, making thousands of miners suffer, or watching the pseudointellectuals in MD bleat about how nothing we're doing is having an impact.
Carry on!
Doubles adorable from first glance in preparation and execution, but seemingly halfhearted in the full exhaustion of its potential. But letGÇÖs see if the new project H5 will catch up on it or , again, comes short and miss the greater target.
Anyway, player added content is always the spice in the soup.
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Zendon Taredi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.11.12 23:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
back for more gloating, are we? is this all the damage the goons can do? semi-curb one item of thousands? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2011.11.12 23:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
Zendon Taredi wrote:back for more gloating, are we? is this all the damage the goons can do? semi-curb one item of thousands? You know full well that this has a knock-on effect on more than just a single item. |
tengen san
Triton-TC
2
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Posted - 2011.11.13 00:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
It certainly does but Iam still not convinced there is a lasting effect! The OI price jumps are caused by a hype, taking in account the operation cut of a mere 6,5% -7,5% of the available recourse, the laws of the market allows only a solid shortage a lasting sustainability on a risen price level.
Hype always will be what it is, a hype as it has no solid background. Take it as given the drones get stripped from their alloy, a real existing shortage comes in function, justify any skyrocketing of Ore/Min prices. The OI shortage is only real where buyers hold back their stocks but not in the nature of a resource shortage.
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jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.11.13 00:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
Oxygen Isotopes updated price target: 1500-2000 within 3 days.
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2011.11.13 00:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
So, I take it you're still believing that this is just a bubble, then, and that it isn't spiraling out of control now/very, very soon? |
tengen san
Triton-TC
2
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Posted - 2011.11.13 01:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:................ and that it isn't spiraling out of control now/very, very soon?
You just proof my words right,...then.
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
135
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Posted - 2011.11.13 01:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
Take a look around, then. Look at all the smaller market hubs, then look at Jita. Pray tell, does that look like a healthy market to you, one that's going to correct itself soon?
Keep in mind that less than 5 days ago, the prices were at 900. The only reason it's at 1250 right now instead of 1300 or 1330, is because someone is either desperately want to stave off the price takeoff, they're desperate to sell, or it's a badly setup bot.
I don't really care which, it'll disappear soon enough. |
DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2011.11.13 01:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:what has been done is to take one of the most commonly used items in eve and triple the value (so far), eliminating the viability of an entire race of pos and robbing anyone who uses an entire race of capital ships for untold billions
and has the potential to basically empty jita of oxytopes unless the current market thinning thread reverses dramatically
this is a market manipulation of such unprecedented size and scope a new word will have to be created for it: a market manipulation is when you take a minor market and move it 10% for a short time
this is to market manipulation as fat man is to a grenade
My good man, I believe the word you are looking for is embargo. Though not sure a Jita Embargo is appropriate since there is no physical blockade of any sorts. The well has gone dry... or more realistically, the bucket no longer holds water.
Another metaphor is the monkey in the cage with an electrified banana. Over time, added subjects to the cage try to get the banana and every cage occupant is shocked. The learned behavior is any new occupants reaching for the banana are beat to death by the old occupants. Not exactly a scientific study, but somehow the monkeys have turned on one another. Interesting how that works. |
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
56
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Posted - 2011.11.13 09:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
So yesterday was the first day with zero transactions in Jita. Impressive. Was this is just a shock reaction or a sign of weakness? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1092
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Posted - 2011.11.13 09:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
tengen san wrote:It certainly does but Iam still not convinced there is a lasting effect! The OI price jumps are caused by a hype, taking in account the operation cut of a mere 6,5% -7,5% of the available recourse, the laws of the market allows only a solid shortage a lasting sustainability on a risen price level.
Hype always will be what it is, a hype as it has no solid background. Take it as given the drones get stripped from their alloy, a real existing shortage comes in function, justify any skyrocketing of Ore/Min prices. The OI shortage is only real where buyers hold back their stocks but not in the nature of a resource shortage.
I presume that you've cashed in all but a bare operating minimum of your stock, knowing that a price crash is immenent? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
457
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Posted - 2011.11.13 09:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:So yesterday was the first day with zero transactions in Jita. Impressive. Was this is just a shock reaction or a sign of weakness? Or was it... ehm... why bother. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
139
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Posted - 2011.11.13 15:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:So yesterday was the first day with zero transactions in Jita. Impressive. Was this is just a shock reaction or a sign of weakness?
That's just a display glitch that happens.
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tengen san
Triton-TC
2
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Posted - 2011.11.13 17:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:tengen san wrote:It certainly does but Iam still not convinced there is a lasting effect! The OI price jumps are caused by a hype, taking in account the operation cut of a mere 6,5% -7,5% of the available recourse, the laws of the market allows only a solid shortage a lasting sustainability on a risen price level.
Hype always will be what it is, a hype as it has no solid background. Take it as given the drones get stripped from their alloy, a real existing shortage comes in function, justify any skyrocketing of Ore/Min prices. The OI shortage is only real where buyers hold back their stocks but not in the nature of a resource shortage.
I presume that you've cashed in all but a bare operating minimum of your stock, knowing that a price crash is immenent?
Not yet, as the hype is still working well and the spike isnGÇÖt reach yet.
I also see no reason for an imminent price crash. I donGÇÖt know from where in my post this could be extracted. What I do daub is a sustained high Price elevation, this based on the remaining 92% of the target resource. Sooner or later the prices will slow down gradually once these resources, rather neglected till now, will come in focus to be attractive enough to feed the market. ItGÇÖs just hurting not enough but it will come.
11 BI Ice belts partially shoot down compared to a 170 TBI available with a higher OI yield than BI really canGÇÖt create a shortage on the long term.
On the end, the attempt to minimize bots will be contra productive in its effect, as booting will rise in those areas out of reach to the Ice indictors. From my observations I even dare to state you can run a bot in the Gallanten Ice fields much saver now than ever before once youGÇÖve paid the requested 250mil fee.
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Claire Voyant
20
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Posted - 2011.11.13 19:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I presume that you've cashed in all but a bare operating minimum of your stock, knowing that a price crash is immenent? Yeah, I'm down to my last 6 million unit stack of raw ice, just pondering if I should refine before hauling it. Hard times. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
476
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 03:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
tengen san wrote:On the end, the attempt to minimize bots will be contra productive in its effect, as booting will rise in those areas out of reach to the Ice indictors. From my observations I even dare to state you can run a bot in the Gallanten Ice fields much saver now than ever before once youGÇÖve paid the requested 250mil fee.
Make the rest of your post seem like a shining beacon of insight. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.11.14 09:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote: Which goes back to the original question. How big are the stockpiles and how long will Goons have to keep up this (rather boring) interdiction of all of the ice fields in Gallente space? (And Oxytope prices have been flat-lined at 900-1050 ISK/u for a few weeks now, hardly a "skyrocket".)
I don't think that the POS owner stockpiles are really an issue here.
If you check the market numbers in the Gallente regions, you'll notice that oxytope prices may be up, but quantities sold/bought are down, and more importantly, not showing any signs of improving. So, the Goons are sitting on a huge pile of oxytope sell orders, but no one is buying.
Demand of oxytopes is unlikely to increase, since most current POS owners are opting to swap Gallente/Serpentis towers for other racial towers, as their oxytope supply runs out (many were even smart enough to sell off their oxytopes and use the profit to buy 2-3 times more alternate 'tope fuel for their new towers). New POS owners are avoiding the problem by not buying Gallente/Serpentis towers in fhe first place.
Eventually, the Goons may be able to sell out their excess stock in oxytopes, but it will take a long time, esp. as demand continues to drop. And, to keep the price up at current levels, they will need to actively maintain the Gallente ice interdiction. If they don't, then the ice miner bots will be immediately back at work - grinding out tons of oxytopes and undercutting the Goon sell orders, pushing the price rapidly back down.
So, this is more of a question of how long Goon management wants to tie up so many sell orders with oxytopes, and how long they want to tie up players to maintain the interdiction. Overall, though, it really does not make sense to keep it going much longer, and even less sense to continue it after the Winter Expansion.
From an economic POV, it isn't really a great idea to sit on an excess of slow-moving stock, esp. of an item which is easy for bots to grind from nothing and for which buyers have alternative choices at a much lower price. Most of the experienced folks in MD know this already. Also, maintaining the interdiction will get more expensive, when suicide ganking loses the insurance payout. So, you are looking at pretty lousy ROI and a lousy monthly cash flow, esp. given the amount of work involved.
From a fun and drama POV, well... suicide ganking of miners isn't very challenging, and waiting around for them to show up is even more boring than gate camping or high sec station games. And, even if you are a fanatic for suicide ganking, there are much more interesting (and more profitable) targets of opportunity. The tears are just not as plentiful from mining bots as they are from officer-fit mission runners or AFK auto-piloting freighter pilots hauling billions of ISK of goodies in their cargo holds. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.11.14 09:40:00 -
[89] - Quote
jm24 wrote:Oxygen Isotopes updated price target: 1500-2000 within 3 days.
A feasible, but also a "so what" prediction.
Most of the large sell orders on market are Goon orders (rather obvious, since the regional prices and expiration dates on the sell orders are identical - in fact, it looks like a market bot at work... hmm...). Buying from your own sell orders at a higher price, just to tweak up the graph, is an old market manipulation trick.
Unless the sold/bought quantities resume to pre-interdiction levels, the price alone really means very little.
A more interesting speculation is whether or not the Goons are going to buy up all oxytopes which are sold under their target price. If the Goons buy up the competitors' oxytopes, then they are putting ISK into the miners' pockets, which just encourages them to continue mining Gallente ice (since the larger profit margin offsets the ship loss cost, esp. for fully-insurable T1 mining barges). If they don't buy them up, then the undercutting sell orders will keep pushing the price back down again. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2011.11.14 09:50:00 -
[90] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:I'm not sure what I enjoy more, making thousands of industrialists suffer, making thousands of miners suffer, or watching the pseudointellectuals in MD bleat about how nothing we're doing is having an impact. Well, it must be the third choice in your list that you enjoy most, since the first two never actually happened.
Maybe if you replace "thousands" with "a handful"....
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